Send them to Kindergarden or Wait

[LisaNJ25]

I have one turning 5 the end of August. I am not holding her back. We have all day Kindergarten.

My son will be 5 next September and I dont plan on holding him back either.

My older daughter is August also and we didn't hold back.

I don't have a problem holding back if a problem arises. My oldest has an October Birthday and if he was starting today he would miss the cut off by 3 days. Back that it was mid October. He started out ok but in 3rd grade we decided to hold him back.

One thing I dont like is now he turns 18 as soon as he starts his Senior Year.

 

[OceanAnnie]

The thing is you seem to be blanketing everyone together that any holding back is bad. Yes, I will agree a 9 or 10 yo in 1gr is not what I see as appropriate. And for the most part the discussion seems to be if the child isn't ready emotionally or by maturity. If keeping my child back a year because academically he is not ready will prevent him from just making it with struggling OR being placed in a special education program I would hold him back without a doubt!

Maybe if the trend is to keep children out of school until a year past what is now expected/mandated districts/states/government should find out the true reasons why parents are now feeling the need to do this. By reading is this thread and other research I have read it does seem to be almost regional.

I *think* it is regional. I think it's odd how it is abused (in my experience). As I stated, I taught Head Start, a program to help with readiness. The parents of those children in Head Start wouldn't dream of holding their children back. It wasn't done. And in the more affluent areas it's the opposite. The parents are holding their children back to give them an advantage. That's my experience and it's strange to me.

 

[ilandrazdsw]

I bolded. You are wrong here. They don't care what you think when providing services of any type. There has to be fact. It is not based on feelings. It is based on solid evidence.

The discussion of special education inculsion, THE ISSUE...NOT IF THE CHILDREN BELONG IN SPECIAL EDUCATION!!! Some parents believe that their special needs student would best be served in a general education, while others feel a self-contained class or seperate facility would server their child better. This has long been debated and each party can find research to support their side.

And YES the schools do care what you think when it comes to how your special education student is educated...the parents also have to sign off on the Individual Education Plan (IEP)...If they are not happy it isn't signed.

 

[hmacmahony]

First you happen to be one of the nastiest people I have ever heard from...

Second, I never said I was holding back my 7,8 or 9 year old.
I held back my kids who would of been 4 when school started, in our very academic school district.
All of which was recommended by all the teachers, principal (but one high school teacher) we talked to.
If you want to get so nasty, guess what, my kids all STARTED kindergarten at the age of 5, they turned 6 within 6 weeks of school starting. But the ALL started kindergarten at 5, your golden age.
It is not up to me to sacrifice my child up to a system that is broken. I am not going to put my child in a situation that is not the most beneficial for her because others believe she should go to school because of when her birthday was.
What if I was trying to push her in early? There is no problem with that right? Just if I hold her back a year.
When it comes down to it, I don't care really about the social irresponsibility, I care about my child, and her education. This was the best decision for her (and my others). You worry about your child, I will worry about mine.
Plus, our district is changing our cutoff date next year, guess what, my kids will no longer be considered held back. They will be right where they are according to you supposed to be.
So, clearly our district sees how much better kids do when they are slightly older, and not 4 when entering kindergarten.
Bottom line, it comes down to, my child my choice.

And, I am still not getting where I am not teaching my children responsibility because I sent them to school a year later, you keep brining that up. That it is my job to teach them "proper behavior", since you clearly don't know me, or my kids, not sure how you are ASSuming I am not doing these things based on the fact that I kept them home with me an extra year.

I 100% disagree with almost everything you said. Yes it is your CHOICE but where is the line drawn between your choice and socially irresponsible. If you choose to hold your child until they are 7, how about 8 - is that a matter of CHOICE? I have 3 children (one in first and one in K - both boys). My oldest has a May b-day and started at 5 as he is supposed to. My middle one has a Nov. b-day and started at 4.

Both are doing great!!!!!!! My daughter will start at age 5 when the time comes.

All of my kids go to bed at 7pm and all had to be weaned off a nap before kindergarten (not a hard task). If you teach your child responsibility and proper behavior than they will be ready for school at age 5 - this maturity arguement is crazy. Of course there are the rare exception but they are exactly that rare.

Not sure where you live but we live in a highly academiclly demanding district and they still recommend my kids start school on time.

Children belong in school at the right age and as parents it is our job to ensure they get there. If a parent holds there child without professional recommendations they are only hurting their child socially - no wonder they are immature and one more year may not help that.

I know many will disagre but it is my opinion and it is also the social norm to send your child to school at age 5.

 

[ilandrazdsw]

This is to pp's that say kids are forced to grow up too fast. I see something wrong with holding children back because you don't want them to grow up. There are other ways to not let your children grow up too fast, ie. no cell phone at 12, not leaving them to tend their siblings at 11, not making them latchkey kids. But at the same time people are holding their children back to have another year with them and not doing anything academically with that child for that year other than putting them in pre-k AGAIN. When are you going to let your child make a small step towards becoming their own person. I am like any other mom, I want my kids home forever, and when they do happen to move out I want them to stay close. But if I continue to shelter them like toddlers, what have I taught them, because I surely haven't taught them to be individuals or how to cope with difficult situations. They are not too young at 5 to understand that not everything is easy and that hard work prevails. I truly believe you are doing your children an injustice by holding them out UNLESS they have a proven learning disability or physical ailment which would prevent them from going to kinder at 5.

Welcome to my problem...My 5 yo (July child) was made by government to begin school. Was he ready emotionally, socially...sure. Was he ready academically...in some areas. He does not write with the fluency like his peers. His teacher is good, but this is her first year in MANY teaching 1st grade as she previously taught 2nd. Not only are the demands put on these children inappropriate in areas, she expected them to know certain things and did not take the time to teach the basics...1/2 the class attended a nursery school, 1/2 did not. Now DS has fallen behind in handwriting skills (and could use some work on fine motor skills). He is forced to write assignments on notebook paper. Any such assignment is a struggle because he now HATES writing. Assignments are sent home to be completed so he often has 2 or 3x the amount of homework as his friends. Because he fights me on this it leads to tantrums which lead to punishments (and yes we use a lot of positive reinforcement). Therefore, he is not having as many childhood opportunities of playing outside with his friends (thus not improving gross motor skills).
I am completely blaming myself because as his mother I should have found a way to keep him home. By doing so I would have had a year to help his motor skills develop thus allowing him to has a less stressful school experience.
Yes, my experience is MINE and DS is in a different country and school system. But I would feel the same way if he was 5 and not ready for K.
I

 

[Mouse House Mama]

The discussion of special education inculsion, THE ISSUE...NOT IF THE CHILDREN BELONG IN SPECIAL EDUCATION!!! Some parents believe that their special needs student would best be served in a general education, while others feel a self-contained class or seperate facility would server their child better. This has long been debated and each party can find research to support their side.

And YES the schools do care what you think when it comes to how your special education student is educated...the parents also have to sign off on the Individual Education Plan (IEP)...If they are not happy it isn't signed.

First off, don't yell. I am discussing rationally with you.
Secondly, yes the schools care what you think but in the end you have to prove that your child needs what he/she needs. Not what you think he/she needs. They will not just change things to make you happy. There has to be a just reason to support it. That is the point I am making.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

First you happen to be one of the nastiest people I have ever heard from...

Second, I never said I was holding back my 7,8 or 9 year old.
I held back my kids who would of been 4 when school started, in our very academic school district.
All of which was recommended by all the teachers, principal (but one high school teacher) we talked to.
If you want to get so nasty, guess what, my kids all STARTED kindergarten at the age of 5, they turned 6 within 6 weeks of school starting. But the ALL started kindergarten at 5, your golden age.
It is not up to me to sacrifice my child up to a system that is broken. I am not going to put my child in a situation that is not the most beneficial for her because others believe she should go to school because of when her birthday was.
What if I was trying to push her in early? There is no problem with that right? Just if I hold her back a year.
When it comes down to it, I don't care really about the social irresponsibility, I care about my child, and her education. This was the best decision for her (and my others). You worry about your child, I will worry about mine.
Plus, our district is changing our cutoff date next year, guess what, my kids will no longer be considered held back. They will be right where they are according to you supposed to be.
So, clearly our district sees how much better kids do when they are slightly older, and not 4 when entering kindergarten.
Bottom line, it comes down to, my child my choice.

And, I am still not getting where I am not teaching my children responsibility because I sent them to school a year later, you keep brining that up. That it is my job to teach them "proper behavior", since you clearly don't know me, or my kids, not sure how you are ASSuming I am not doing these things based on the fact that I kept them home with me an extra year.

I don't see how the psoter you were referring to was being mean and nasty at all. All they stated was that you shouldn't be allowed to keep your kids home on a whim basically. Just because you don't agree doesn't make the poster nasty. To be honest you are the most defensive and snippy of all of us here that are discussing this. If you want to get your point across you can do it without being insulting or acting like those of us who don't agree with you are not very bright and forcing our kids to grow up too fast. If you believe you did the right thing then why would you care who agrees with you? Why get all snippy about it?
I am not being rude, I was trying to see both sides of this arguement even though I completely disagree with holding kids back unless there is some sort of developmental delay. That is my opinion and your too bad so sad attitude makes it hard to see it from your point of view. I can agree to disagree but it doesn't have to be with nastiness.
JMHO of course.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Welcome to my problem...My 5 yo (July child) was made by government to begin school. Was he ready emotionally, socially...sure. Was he ready academically...in some areas. He does not write with the fluency like his peers. His teacher is good, but this is her first year in MANY teaching 1st grade as she previously taught 2nd. Not only are the demands put on these children inappropriate in areas, she expected them to know certain things and did not take the time to teach the basics...1/2 the class attended a nursery school, 1/2 did not. Now DS has fallen behind in handwriting skills (and could use some work on fine motor skills). He is forced to write assignments on notebook paper. Any such assignment is a struggle because he now HATES writing. Assignments are sent home to be completed so he often has 2 or 3x the amount of homework as his friends. Because he fights me on this it leads to tantrums which lead to punishments (and yes we use a lot of positive reinforcement). Therefore, he is not having as many childhood opportunities of playing outside with his friends (thus not improving gross motor skills).
I am completely blaming myself because as his mother I should have found a way to keep him home. By doing so I would have had a year to help his motor skills develop thus allowing him to has a less stressful school experience.
Yes, my experience is MINE and DS is in a different country and school system. But I would feel the same way if he was 5 and not ready for K.
I

That stinks. I hope you can find some way to bring some fun back into learning for him.

 

[QueueCT]

If you want to get so nasty, guess what, my kids all STARTED kindergarten at the age of 5, they turned 6 within 6 weeks of school starting. But the ALL started kindergarten at 5, your golden age.

When it comes down to it, I don't care really about the social irresponsibility, I care about my child, and her education. This was the best decision for her (and my others). You worry about your child, I will worry about mine.

My apologies for selectively quoting from your post; I just wanted to address the two issues above.

I don't think most people on this thread have a real issue when a child is close to the cutoff and there's a clear reason for the delay. It seems to be more of an issue when someone is, say, a November (or Jan, Feb, etc) baby where there's an October cutoff and the child is not enrolled the following school year to provide a specific advantage for that child. Yes, there are nuances here and I'm making a blanket statement. There are legitimate reasons not to enroll a child . . . I think it gets carried to extremes.

As to the second paragraph quoted from the post . . . you have just told me that you don't care about anyone but your family (on this issue). You don't care what the impact of your decision is on other people. That's incredibly selfish. Is this a world-ending problem? Of course not. And I'm not drawing conclusions about you from your one post. But I find that this thread of non-concern about the impact of ones actions carries through to many areas and it bothers me (just sharing, don't know if anyone will care or not).

Finally, a PP had asked where the term "red shirt" came from. It's a reference to college athletes who only have four years of eligibility but do not join the playing squad during freshman year. This allows them to mature both physically and in skills without using one of those four years of eligibility. The "red shirt" was worn during practice scrimmages to designate that the player was not on the playing squad.

 

[Leajess99]

Just thought I'd chime in since I'm struggling with this decision myself. DS turns 5 on Aug 27...age cutoff in our district is 5 by Sept 1..if he was born on his due date he'd not be allowed enrollment. He currently is in Pre-k, 2nd year, with children who are all 5...maybe 2 or 3 are still 4, but the majority have already had a b-day. During fall conferences the teachers mentioned "we have to remind ourselves that (DS) is the youngest..)... he's considerably smaller and although he tries his hardest, he's not writing his name as clear as the other students or tying his shoes yet. I left the conference feeling inadequate as a mother and a little offended, and I don't want my son to have that label on him for the next few years. We will have another conference in the sprng with his teachers, plus I will discuss this issue with my pediatrician. We are leaning towards holding him for one more year, and even then, he may just be a week or two older than some of the kids. The severerity of this debate on this board is a little alarming to me.. for those that are against this, maybe for you it doesn't seem necessary, but for others it can mean the difference between a thriving, confident child or one that struggles for most of his academic life to keep up with his peers. Please don't make judgements on the parents that decide what they think is best for their child...You would do the same if you had concerns that your child wouldn't thrive.

Kindergarten is for teaching children. Not all kids enter Kindergarten writing as well as others or even at all. Like you said your son is younger than other kids in his class yet you are comparing him to them. You know there are worksheet programs on line that allow you to make practice sheets to work with him on writing his name if you feel that is an issue. I just don't get keep a child out of kindergarten. Why not let them try and if they have problems there are options but they may surprise you.

 

[hmacmahony]

When it comes to my childs well being, call me selfish every time. I am doing what is best for MY child, not yours.
You are clearly not caring for the well being of my child by insisting they are pushed into kindergarten at a young age, because they meet some silly cutoff date.
I will not toot my own horn, I will not beg you to like me, I will not care if you don't like me, I am confident I am a pretty decent human being, who cares deeply for others. I will not ask for forgiveness, because I have choosen to do what is best for my child, because I gurantee most people on here feel the same way. They will do what is best for their child.

My apologies for selectively quoting from your post; I just wanted to address the two issues above.

I don't think most people on this thread have a real issue when a child is close to the cutoff and there's a clear reason for the delay. It seems to be more of an issue when someone is, say, a November (or Jan, Feb, etc) baby where there's an October cutoff and the child is not enrolled the following school year to provide a specific advantage for that child. Yes, there are nuances here and I'm making a blanket statement. There are legitimate reasons not to enroll a child . . . I think it gets carried to extremes.

As to the second paragraph quoted from the post . . . you have just told me that you don't care about anyone but your family (on this issue). You don't care what the impact of your decision is on other people. That's incredibly selfish. Is this a world-ending problem? Of course not. And I'm not drawing conclusions about you from your one post. But I find that this thread of non-concern about the impact of ones actions carries through to many areas and it bothers me (just sharing, don't know if anyone will care or not).

Finally, a PP had asked where the term "red shirt" came from. It's a reference to college athletes who only have four years of eligibility but do not join the playing squad during freshman year. This allows them to mature both physically and in skills without using one of those four years of eligibility. The "red shirt" was worn during practice scrimmages to designate that the player was not on the playing squad.

 

[ilandrazdsw]

First off, don't yell. I am discussing rationally with you.
Secondly, yes the schools care what you think but in the end you have to prove that your child needs what he/she needs. Not what you think he/she needs. They will not just change things to make you happy. There has to be a just reason to support it. That is the point I am making.

So sorry not yelling making a point!

Proof is needed and parents don't just get their own way, but in the IEP (not yelling) meeting what the parents think makes a big impact. If the parents want something for their child and can explain to the team why they feel this, even if the team disagrees more often than not (in my experience) at the very least more evaluation is done. The IEP does not have to be signed if any member of the team is not confident with the goals or placement.

Also I was talking about placement. Just because the government says that Least Restrictive Placement begins with the general education classroom and becomes more "restrictive" from there does not mean that is where I would want my child even if he could handle it.

 

[Leajess99]

So instead my child who may be not quite be ready for school should go to make YOUR child comfortable??? My child should be exposed (I know that is a harsh word.) to you child's maturity level possibly picking up language or habits that he is not ready to understand or mature enough to handle appropriately, because lets face it when kids are young 6,8,11 months does/can make a difference!?! And if you need an example I can offer at least one!

I am not agreeing or saying that children should be any means be held back to give them an edge so when they get to HS they will for sure make the sports team or be the validictorian (sp?). If there is an honest reason...and yes, I do believe giving a child another year to enjoy being a child is a honest reason...then the parents should have not only that option, but right.

Unless you plan to shelter your child forever he/she is going to be exposed to some things you would prefer they not. My daughter had to deal with a child using language that is not appropriate for any child to use especially a Kindergartener. Kids pick up what they hear on tv, the radio, other adults, etc. And a child can still be a child while going to school. I just do not get this arguement that kids need another year to "enjoy being a child." My kids enjoy being kids but they go to school as well. Mine love school and get upset when they don't have school. They have many friends and fun at school and they are still kids at school.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

So sorry not yelling making a point!

Proof is needed and parents don't just get their own way, but in the IEP (not yelling) meeting what the parents think makes a big impact. If the parents want something for their child and can explain to the team why they feel this, even if the team disagrees more often than not (in my experience) at the very least more evaluation is done. The IEP does not have to be signed if any member of the team is not confident with the goals or placement.

Also I was talking about placement. Just because the government says that Least Restrictive Placement begins with the general education classroom and becomes more "restrictive" from there does not mean that is where I would want my child even if he could handle it.

Okay, I get what you are saying. That makes sense now.

 

[mcbj]

 

[Mouse House Mama]

 

[C&G'sMama]

As I have said in a previous post and others have said. All kids are different. Yes, my child is big and probably always will be, but if the teacher recommends holding him back then he'll be held back. He was 5 in April and went to kindergarten in September. We seriously considered waiting. Not to give him an advantage but because we weren't sure he was ready. Just because "the gov't" says 5 doesn't make it right. It's right for a majority of kids, not all. And some kids with late birthdays are starting at 4.

If a child lives in New York and has a November 30th birthday they can start school when they are 4. If a child lives in Massachusetts and has a Setember 10th birthday they have to wait until the following year. If the child who started in New York moves to Massachusetts in an upper grade then they will be more than a year younger than many of their classmates.

What about a 5 year old that goes to school with an August birthday and isn't ready and gets held back. They are still going to be older bigger etc. Yes, I understand people's points about size for Sports Etc. but that's not the only consideration. Kids are not pegs. They are not one size fits all. And that is what our school system tries to do, is put all kids in the same size hole. And that doesn't work.

 

[ilandrazdsw]

Finally, a PP had asked where the term "red shirt" came from. It's a reference to college athletes who only have four years of eligibility but do not join the playing squad during freshman year. This allows them to mature both physically and in skills without using one of those four years of eligibility. The "red shirt" was worn during practice scrimmages to designate that the player was not on the playing squad.

Thank you for educating me I did not know that.

 

[tinker&belle]

Wow!

I read all the responses. I taught Pre-k and this is always a hard decision. It is the parent's call. Every parent makes the choice that best suites their family and child. Many children who are the youngest struggle due to K's raging academic demands.

We are in an interesting situation with DD. She is an August birthday. If she was a boy I would be more comfortable with keeping her back (it is hard to be the youngest and compete with all older kids!) With girls I feel it is more complicated, partially because they are typically more socially ready and mature. I also worry with DD that if she is old for her grade she will develop early which is hard for girls.

So even though she is one I am thinking about it. Partly because I have walked with parents so many times down this road, and partly I think all parents with August birthdays have this in mind.

It is difficult because as a parent I have to worry about how this decision affects her K-12 and beyond, whereas as a teacher I generally answer the social/academic/maturity questions and let the parents make the choice.

As of right now our plan is to place her in a half-day private developmental curriculum when she is five. If at the end of the year we will make the decision to advance her to first grade or to move her to full-day K. I think at that point we will have a better idea of where she is.

 

[ilandrazdsw]

Okay, I get what you are saying. That makes sense now.

I do not always make my point with the best choice of words when written.