FP + What we know and what we want to know

[Robo]

Addressed to no one, in particular-

The way I count the respondents in this thread, I see about a half dozen, or so, posters who applaud the pending changes (as much as we know of them) and everybody else who thinks the new system may be disappointingly flawed.

Not a scientific sample.
Just a very telling one.

If you don't like my figures (such as they are) go ahead and count them yourself.

(We'll wait.)

 

[bcrook]

I am NOT buying the line that FP+ is designed to get guests out of line.. the present FP system does that just fine. When you add up the cost of re-outfitting all those FP attractions, changing turnstiles, new FP+ kiosks, SW Engineering for the new site and Mobile App, new RFID door locks at every resort, Wi-FI at every resort and alll the parks, and new RFID equipment for every cash register... there must be a BIG monetary payoff coming.. as this was an amazingly large investment to make short of building a new hotel or park.

I don't think we've seen the end game on this.

This game of cat and mouse!

I certainly hope that they're anticipating a big payoff. As a stockholder, if Disney weren't trying to increase the bottom line, I would question their business judgement.

Tinks back!

 

[UNCFanatik]

Nope, it doesn't. We have been the receivers of those random acts of kindness and also the distributors. Always made us feel really good when we were able to do this. Mind you, it didn't happen much. We almost always used the FP's ourselves. Sometimes though things came up so we were able to share them with someone vs letting them go to waste. The argument that it would be better to throw them out because "it's the rule" is just plain ridiculous.

Yup, there is part of a larger problem at Disney. People think they rules dont apply to them or they dont need to follow them because the find them "ridiculous". It doesnt seem to matter that their actions affect other guests as a whole.

Glad to see that the FP+ system will put a stop to most of this.

 

[Robo]

Yup, there is part of a larger problem at Disney. People think they rules dont apply to them or they dont need to follow them because the find them "ridiculous". It doesnt seem to matter that their actions affect other guests as a whole.

Glad to see that the FP+ system will put a stop to most of this.

Unc's back!

 

[doconeill]

If guests "giving away" FP's were a problem, why didn't you just need to scan your ticket again to use your FP? Therefore proving that it was your FP and not someone elses?

I was just thinking about this while getting caught up...

How many "problems" have been cited as the reason FP+ was created?

- FP "angels" giving away their Fastpasses...well, it doesn't cost a billion dollars to have scanners at the FP returns to verify the owners

- Late FP users...well, it doesn't cost a billion dollars...oh, wait...they fixed that one already. And it didn't cost anything but some thickened skin for the frontline CMs...

- Repeat FP "uberusers" - it doesn't cost a billion dollars to change it so that any given ticket can only get 1 or 2 FPs at any given attraction, just some programming, and maybe a slightly larger database.

- Rope-droppers...it doesn't cost a billion dollars to restrict FPs in the morning to spread them out more. Make the exclusion time two hours no matter what.

So, why do they spend a billion dollars? To make more than that back.

And funny, Disney has admitted that's the reason they did it. Not to fix any perceived problem.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

But only riding the new rides once per trip. We don't want to abuse the system or take somebody's spot.

No uber-users!

Nope, it doesn't. We have been the receivers of those random acts of kindness and also the distributors. Always made us feel really good when we were able to do this. Mind you, it didn't happen much. We almost always used the FP's ourselves. Sometimes though things came up so we were able to share them with someone vs letting them go to waste. The argument that it would be better to throw them out because "it's the rule" is just plain ridiculous.

 

[UNCFanatik]

Addressed to no one, in particular-

The way I count the respondents in this thread, I see about a half dozen, or so, posters who applaud the pending changes (as much as we know of them) and everybody else who thinks the new system may be disappointingly flawed.

Not a scientific sample.
Just a very telling one.

If you don't like my figures (such as they are) go ahead and count them yourself.

(We'll wait.)

Yes we will wait. A very biased sampling of people though if just using this thread.

Some of these respondents have previously made predictions that havent come to pass either.

Will be interesting to see how all this plays out.

But since we are all making conjectures, here is mine. I think they roll out the FP+ system and expand the FPs as time passes.

 

[estherhead]

Yes, its better for everyone else if unused FPs were thrown away. Lines move faster with less people in them of course, be it SB or FP. Shorter waits equates to higher guest satisfaction. Lets use an extreme example. If a large tour group pulls 50 FPs lets say and cant use them and their FP window is right before yours. Would you prefer this group give their 50 FPs to 50 random people or would you prefer they just throw them away? Nothing is lost or negatively effected if you throw away FPs you cant use.

Just look at people on this thread hoping people that end up with early morning FP+'s do not show up so they can continue to have an advantage at RD.

However if those 50 people gave the tkts to 50 people already in line for the ride, as often happens, the sum total of how many riders ride is exactly the same.

Also, I think something is lost. I don't like standing in long lines. But I do enjoy standing in 10-15 minute lines. It's quality family time. And I don't like crowded walkways. If MK was at capacity and NO ONE was in line, what would the walkways look like? Would I ever get a Dole Whip? What would the stroller/ECV complaining look like on here at that point.

Lines hold people. And people holding is very important to Disney. That is a real reason for FP enforcement and FP+. Crowd control. They want money, yes, and customer satisfaction, yes. And that all is more likely to happen if they can control the crowds.

 

[Robo]

And funny, Disney has admitted that's the reason they did it. Not to fix any perceived problem.

That has been my point all along.

I don't think "FP abuse" was ever the PROBLEM.

If it was, they easily could have...






(oh, never mind.)

 

[Disney_Princess83]

The only problem with "FP" was that it wasn't making enough money for Disney. They've come up with a new and improved way to make more money per guest. This will be done to get people to extend their trips and stop them from going off property but having more planned activities.

This isn't because a mother gave her FP to (insert ride here) to her son, or because I gave a FP away to s stranger that I wasn't going to use.

I was just thinking about this while getting caught up...

How many "problems" have been cited as the reason FP+ was created?

- FP "angels" giving away their Fastpasses...well, it doesn't cost a billion dollars to have scanners at the FP returns to verify the owners

- Late FP users...well, it doesn't cost a billion dollars...oh, wait...they fixed that one already. And it didn't cost anything but some thickened skin for the frontline CMs...

- Repeat FP "uberusers" - it doesn't cost a billion dollars to change it so that any given ticket can only get 1 or 2 FPs at any given attraction, just some programming, and maybe a slightly larger database.

- Rope-droppers...it doesn't cost a billion dollars to restrict FPs in the morning to spread them out more. Make the exclusion time two hours no matter what.

So, why do they spend a billion dollars? To make more than that back.

And funny, Disney has admitted that's the reason they did it. Not to fix any perceived problem.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

That has been my point all along.

I don't think "FP abuse" was the PROBLEM.

If it was, they could have...






(oh, never mind.)

Just say "uber-user" and have a drink!

 

[UNCFanatik]

I was just thinking about this while getting caught up...

How many "problems" have been cited as the reason FP+ was created?

- FP "angels" giving away their Fastpasses...well, it doesn't cost a billion dollars to have scanners at the FP returns to verify the owners

- Late FP users...well, it doesn't cost a billion dollars...oh, wait...they fixed that one already. And it didn't cost anything but some thickened skin for the frontline CMs...

- Repeat FP "uberusers" - it doesn't cost a billion dollars to change it so that any given ticket can only get 1 or 2 FPs at any given attraction, just some programming, and maybe a slightly larger database.

- Rope-droppers...it doesn't cost a billion dollars to restrict FPs in the morning to spread them out more. Make the exclusion time two hours no matter what.

So, why do they spend a billion dollars? To make more than that back.

And funny, Disney has admitted that's the reason they did it. Not to fix any perceived problem.

Again, no where did I state that FP abuse was the sole reason for the FP+ system. But it is no coincidence that the FP+ system will stop most of the abuse. There are several factors that went into the change and the underlying one was to try to increase revenue.

 

[jbraught]

I think the 'pay to play' mentioned late last night is the other shoe dropping.

US and basically every other theme park charges something for their version of FP. Disney was giving it away for free. Don't you think they wanted to get some return on that? People were paying many hundreds of $ for a stay in a deluxe, and complaining "there were no FPs available when I showed up! Do you know how much I paid for this? I deserve better! I'll go to US where they are happy to take my money and give me superior benefits."

And Disney was giving the best FP perks away for free to people who probably didn't spend as much (I know I sure didn't.)

I think a valid ticket will get us some minimal FP+, and staying on-site or at a fancier resort will get you more.

As a family of 5, we always stay off-site ($75 for a 3 bedroom condo instead of $300 a night for anywhere at Disney). I'm disappointed, but I understand the business reasons behind it.

The mouse wants his cheese.

 

[DAZY3BYZ]

I was just thinking about this while getting caught up...

How many "problems" have been cited as the reason FP+ was created?

- FP "angels" giving away their Fastpasses...well, it doesn't cost a billion dollars to have scanners at the FP returns to verify the owners

- Late FP users...well, it doesn't cost a billion dollars...oh, wait...they fixed that one already. And it didn't cost anything but some thickened skin for the frontline CMs...

- Repeat FP "uberusers" - it doesn't cost a billion dollars to change it so that any given ticket can only get 1 or 2 FPs at any given attraction, just some programming, and maybe a slightly larger database.

- Rope-droppers...it doesn't cost a billion dollars to restrict FPs in the morning to spread them out more. Make the exclusion time two hours no matter what.

So, why do they spend a billion dollars? To make more than that back.

And funny, Disney has admitted that's the reason they did it. Not to fix any perceived problem.

Still for the life of me can't figure out how they expect FP+ to give them such a big payoff. There is definitely more to this puzzle coming I think.

 

[redrosesix]

Realizing you weren't speaking directly to me, but it got me thinking about something I have been thinking off and on for sooooo long.

I don't know the exact size space required for TSM or Soarin' but...

Gosh, it would be nice if they could have put duplicates or almost duplicates in that empty section of EPCOT. I mean, heck, they could use bow and arrow type shooter thingies for and effectively duplicate the TSM ride with old pottery or Scottish targets and stuff from "Brave" or some other thing. If they can have dueling Dumbos why couldn't they have just put in a second Soarin in the empty building? Maybe they could have done both. That would have been nice. Doubled capacity. Concept stuff already worked out.

ITA with this. It would have cost much less than $1b to make everyone feel like they had been on the best rides at least once, get rid of that excuse that people use to not go to wdw ie. the lines for the good rides are much too long. Sounds like it will be the opposite though. With no money left over for great less expensive ideas.

Could not agree more!! I'm an obsessive Disney planner. ADR's, EMH, Parks scheduled for each day but the idea of planning rides months in advance is just too much even for me. I've helped many families plan their Disney vacations and I have to say the one thing they all resist is the scheduling. They do not want to be bothered scheduling meals in advance or their park days months in advance. A Disney vacation just ends up being too much work for these people. How on Earth does Disney expect the "average" visitor to want to pre-schedule rides. I just don't see it. FP worked well the way it was. I felt it was fair in its opportunity for all to to take advantage of (unlike US where you have to pay thru the nose for that advantage) Like with anything else in life, the more you learned about how it worked the more you could take advantage of it to minimize waits and maximize rides. This new version of FP+ seems much more restrictive and will offer us less for our vacation dollars not more.

I agree with this too -- we don't do DDP because I refuse to schedule my hunger -- we're so overscheduled with full time work and sports that I feel like I'm doing that when I'm home. I can't imagine how a first timer is going to get through this mess -- it takes long enough just to figure out the ticketing etc. Or they'll get home and realize they didn't have to miss Soarin and TSM. Neither will be good.

And FOTL pass at Universal is one chance per ride, which IMO makes it not worth the money if you have to pay extra for it. I'll probably feel the same about WDW if you have to stay Deluxe to see ONE e-ticket ride per day.

 

[Tink10]

This game of cat and mouse!



Tinks back!

Lol...I rarely post, but I'm always lurking

Disney has been pretty good about implementing equitable solutions and I don't think this will be any exception.

As much as we go to the parks, I can honestly say that we've never seen blatant FP abuse. We've seen...

Line abuse....
Topping Bar Abuse...
Alcohol Abuse....
Wheelchair Abuse....
GAC Abuse....
CM Abuse....
Borderline Child Abuse....

But...

If people want to get up and be there at rope drop and work the FP system...more power to them. I'd personally rather sleep in and have a nice breakfast.

 

[rammh]

Looks like they have answered a few more questions for us in the T&C

http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/media/park-experience-terms-and-conditions.html

"To make a FP+ selection for you or your friends, you must retrieve a Resort package reservation including valid park admission through your account, or associate a valid park admission to your account."

"When you initially make FP+ selections for a park park, you will select a FP+ Experience Set and if plan change, you may modify the entire FP+ Experience set until the first FP+ Experience is redeemed or the first unredeemed experience expires. You may modify an unredeemed individual experience any time prior to the end of the day."

I havent read the rest of the pages but wanted to comment on this. I was part of the trial and also had the option to change my choices up until the time of my FP, however even days before, there was no availability of attractions to change to, I see this being the same when the roll out happens. I wouldnt put any stock in being able to change on the fly.

 

[clareita]

Again, no where did I state that FP abuse was the sole reason for the FP+ system. But it is no coincidence that the FP+ system will stop most of the abuse. There are several factors that went into the change and the underlying one was to try to increase revenue.

UNCFanatik keeps talking about FP "abuse." Any chance you will explain what this abuse is? We've established that using a FP after the return time is no longer allowed. So what is the abuse that occurs on a scale large enough to affect how the FP system works?

 

[doconeill]

Still for the life of me can't figure out how they expect FP+ to give them such a big payoff. There is definitely more to this puzzle coming I think.

It isn't FastPass+ directly (unless the rumors are true and they pull it out from under the offsite guests and make it a perk), but the whole MyMagic+ idea. Make it faster and more convenient for people to spend money, and they will spend more without thinking about it.

And I have a sneaking suspicion that some will believe even though it is not a resort perk, they'll see it as one or at least more easily used if you stay at the resort, given all the confusion about getting tickets, etc.

 

[UNCFanatik]

That has been my point all along.

I don't think "FP abuse" was ever the PROBLEM.

If it was, they easily could have...

The FP+ is just part of a larger initiative here. This is more than just about FPs.

And as I have said before, they may have want to address areas of the FP program but just didnt see a viable solution at the time.

Now they can roll out a total all encompassing system without having to piecemeal various parts of it all and trying to integrate everything later.

So no, I dont believe they spent 1 billion to solely address issues within the FP program but they did address those in the process of rolling out the total program. And that was no coincidence.

The bottom line is to drive more revenue, of course.