World Showcase Culture

[Reddog1134]

I personally prefer EURO to mk.

Every traveler to wdw should get a trip to one of the other places in comparison.

The board would NEVER neglect Orlando again.

You know what really doesn't have an equal in Florida??

Yep...the ball

What is "the ball"?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

What is "the ball"?

Sorry...

The park containing a "geodesic sphere"

 

[clsteve]

I also must disagree that all fictional fantasy must go in the MK. That would ultimately result in an enormous MK and the rest of the parks would be 1/2 niche parks. I would rather see balance throughout the parks for all ages and interest.

Well, if we're going all Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité... going the "balance" for all ages and interests route---- let's refurb Sunshine Terrace into a period Rum Tavern like the one where young Jim Hawkins recruits Long John Silver in Treasure Island. Full of serving wenches, burly and dangerous pirates, and great rums.

Or an Incredibles or WALL-E based attraction in FutureWorld's huge availability geared towards 'tweens and boys tied to whatever technological hook

And I'm not trying to bash you over the head with these

But it seems your "balance" actually is an enormous MK. Just one that encompasses all of the Parks.....

 

[Reddog1134]

Sorry...

The park containing a "geodesic sphere"

Ah, I think your wording threw me off.

"You know what, in Florida, doesn't have an equal elsewhere?"

"You know what really doesn't have an equal in Florida??" sounds like the reverse.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Ah, I think your wording threw me off.

"You know what, in Florida, doesn't have an equal elsewhere?"

"You know what really doesn't have an equal in Florida??" sounds like the reverse.

Gotcha...

Blizzard and typhoon are pretty cool too...fyi

 

[LaidBackDad]

That's a great post...but with all do respect, EPCOT is not the magic kingdom, or Tokyo, or euro.

It was never intended to be a showcase of Disney product...it was their attempt to portray things with more depth in their style.

Arrendale (which they could have just set it in Norway or Sweden...but turtled up as always to avoid "alienating a buyer" or to protect the piggybank from the courts)...is not themeaticlaly correct.

Te nemo overlay is close To the line...but the movie was in Australia...not some mythical place. And though steeped in humor and Pixar/ Disney "isms"...the movie Was beautifully drawn to showcase the oceans and had an element of education to it. It's passable.

They had their chance at a mythos development...in animal kingdom...but chose
To keep the cash. Now they're taking another run at it with a wealthy egomaniac. (No...not michael Eisner).

The middle, an abc show, used that episode to "poke fun" at Disney for effect, no doubt. But the portrayal of EPCOT as an adult fantasy is inline with a shift in corporate agenda that I don't agree
With (opinion). Mike basically says (if I recall) that he wants to take the wife there because they'll never get to France. Which -while true...does a disservice to the epcot idea.

It was proposed as an urban utopia...a space age/gene Roddenberry esque idea that people will put aside ( or limit) inherent greed and ambition and live and work in symbiosis. Many -such as advisor ray Bradbury - believed that human civilization would have to get there to survive - or go dinosaur and cease. (20 years ago I agreed...now I'm wavering).

It was economically not feasible...but ten years later, the president took a huge, risky bold step to pour money into it to do what they thought they could achieve and support based on technology and finances.

The "permanent world showcase" idea was a natural result, but it was done in an impressive way...the "Disney way". And it is far from a failure...the unsaid "reverse course" approach that is being rolled out will permanently delete that concept over time. And that is not "better" for any of us.

A week with the princesses? That's the "upside, positive"?
I know I'm not gonna change anybody's mind...but I'm saying this to at least acknowledge this is not some little detail in the footnotes of WDW. I hope I'm wrong and this is no big deal... But I don't want it to happen when I'm blind to the possibilities.

So with all due respect to the middle, the idea of the French pavilion is not to make a "fantasy replacement" for France. It's to give you a taste and make you want to go there. And the idea that "I'll never be able to afford it" is anti Walt and pro profiteer...and against US idealism in many ways.

Thanks for the compliment on the post. For brevity sake I didn't recap the entire episode. The premise of "The Middle" is the trials and tribulations the average american dysfunctional family. The only reason they made the trip to WDW is because they won a free trip in a contest or else they may not have been able to afford the trip. Later in the episode (after their hotel reservation was screwed up) they joke they couldn't afford to pay for a single night in their upgraded suite at the GF. To me, that doesn't sound like some sort of corporate subliminal message in prime time programming.

As for the original intent of the WS. If I believe all of the urban lore, Pfizer didn't develop Viagra for its most popular use as prescribed today. I don't hear a lot of people clamoring that the drug should only be used for its original intended purpose. WS may have started as as one thing but has evolved over the decades into something else. Something that is so popular many on these boards are adamantly against changing even in the slightest. It may not have been intended as a fantasy replacement for their respective counties; but, that is one of its major roles.

 

[LaidBackDad]

Well, if we're going all Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité... going the "balance" for all ages and interests route---- let's refurb Sunshine Terrace into a period Rum Tavern like the one where young Jim Hawkins recruits Long John Silver in Treasure Island. Full of serving wenches, burly and dangerous pirates, and great rums.

Or an Incredibles or WALL-E based attraction in FutureWorld's huge availability geared towards 'tweens and boys tied to whatever technological hook

And I'm not trying to bash you over the head with these

But it seems your "balance" actually is an enormous MK. Just one that encompasses all of the Parks.....

Your not going to like it; but, heck yes. I like your ideas. Put me down for a reference if you ever want to be an Imagineer.

The enormous park I'm thinking of is all of WDW. With park hoppers, multi-day discount pricing system and same day use of FP+ in multiple parks, that is basically what WDW is now.

 

[ArwenMarie]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-h...the_b_5835170.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000024

Mind you, WDI plans on leaving Maelstrom's boat-and-trough ride system in place. Which is what will then allow Walt Disney World to get its Frozen-inspired attraction (which will make use of dimensional sets, animatronic figures and film footage to recreate memorable scenes and characters from that Chris Buck/Jennifer Lee film) open by late 2015/early 2016. And by swapping this ride's entrance and exit and then removing some of Maelstrom's post-show elements, the Imagineers even plan on lengthening the trough that these boats travel in. Which will then allow them to fold in a few more show scenes featuring Anna, Elsa, Kristoff and Olaf.

That's really interesting. I still can't see how switching around the entrance and exit will add substantially more length to the ride. Folding in a few more scenes sounds a bit optimistic. I guess I'm also a bit pessimistic in general because of 7DMT. It's a great little ride, but it's too short IMO. It needed one more lift hill/show scene.

I would suspect there may be a serious flaw in any type of rational that would attempt to argue that one type of fantasy is more real than another type of fantasy. If anything, following the "real place" fantasy rational justifies placing Frozen in Norway even more since that is what Arendelle is based off of.

I also must disagree that all fictional fantasy must go in the MK. That would ultimately result in an enormous MK and the rest of the parks would be 1/2 niche parks. I would rather see balance throughout the parks for all ages and interest.

I don't think all fiction has to go into MK. As far as Frozen, I think Hollywood Studios would have been fine for it. I enjoyed the Frozen Fun stuff they put in there this summer. I just don't think Frozen fits in WS unless you also think there should be Mulan ride, an Aladdin ride, a Tangled ride, etc. Which would be fine if that was the design but it wouldn't be WS then.

 

[surferdave]

If I believe all of the urban lore, Pfizer didn't develop Viagra for its most popular use as prescribed today. I don't hear a lot of people clamoring that the drug should only be used for its original intended purpose.

I gotta admit, I didn't expect that analogy.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Your not going to like it; but, heck yes. I like your ideas. Put me down for a reference if you ever want to be an Imagineer.

The enormous park I'm thinking of is all of WDW. With park hoppers, multi-day discount pricing system and same day use of FP+ in multiple parks, that is basically what WDW is now.

You don't seem to be the type that would promote Disney "dumbing things down"...and yet that's the perception I'm getting.

Which means you must be a laissez faire type, cat?

 

[LaidBackDad]

You don't seem to be the type that would promote Disney "dumbing things down"...and yet that's the perception I'm getting.

Which means you must be a laissez faire type, cat?

I like to think I'm more in line with Walt's original concept for Disneyland. Giving families a place to experience movies / fantasies that come to life. I don't think that concept is incongruous with Epcot or even the WS. I realize it may sound that way given what Walt himself said about his vision for Epcot; but, we all know how it has turned out. Even in Walt's original version of Epcot it was still all about family / community and fantasy. Epcot was about what the future might look like or at least his idea of what it could be. That is the stuff fantasies are made of. To me the best thing about Epcot is imagining the way things could / should be. The biggest travesty at Epcot is the way the suits have let the most potentially exciting and best parts of the park waste away or go underutilized. If (huge if) Disney decided to put an Incredible's attraction in FutureWorld; I don't believe that would be dumbing down Epcot just because WDW has never had an attraction based on a fictional movie before in the area before. I think Nemo works well and is a good example. I don't believe the two things are mutually exclusive. The hard part is getting it right. Making sure it appeals to as many ages as possible, still has an educational aspect to it, and the experience and isn't done easy or cheap. That is when the suits get in the way and have fumbled so many things before. I may have a laissez faire side to me just because I think Disney should stick with what it does best. That doesn't mean they still can't or shouldn't be original. I would even say that is really what Walt's vision was for all of WDW.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Walt Disney's EPCOT was not an amusement park...it was an urban design project... Just be clear.

Nobody has the guts to suggest anything like that anymore.

But one big sticking point I still have with the "evolution" theory with EPCOT is this:

The park concept had been a resounding success.
It cost too much up front ( like euro and animal
Kingdom)..and took a few years to catch on...but was a huge success from 85-2000. They are bailing on the bills and blaming the customers "wants". New pavilions... Hell, even the old dream finder ride... Would satisfy the people just the same.

...but they can glean more easy profit going cheap. So instead of making some profit off an EPCOT with new Investment in the existing park...the low road to cheap disneyfied quick bucks is being taken.

All the details of this frozen thing solar offered (not confirmed...but evolving) is that it is way on the cheap. That is inexcusable.

 

[old lady]

Who cares?

World Showcase is amazing. I personally will miss Maelstrom, but it certainly wont limit my experience. I do wish there were more rides in the different countries, even if they were Disney themed.

Ultimately, this is just another way to drive people into the parks, increase revenues for Disney, and allow them to have even more funds for park improvements.

I wonder how they are going use oil rig and polar bears in the new ride or waterfall? Maybe they get rid of the trolls that send you backwards down the waterfall and back again or replace them with the Frozen ones. I believe where you go down the waterfall will be the scene where Anna and Kristoff get chased by wolves. I hope it will not cause more persecution of wolves.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Walt Disney's EPCOT was not an amusement park...it was an urban design project... Just be clear.

That's how it started, yes, but what was created was only vaguely related to Walt's original vision.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That's how it started, yes, but what was created was only vaguely related to Walt's original vision.

It wasnt anything close to "walts vision"

But it also 100% was NOT a Disneyland

 

[Reddog1134]

Walt Disney's EPCOT was not an amusement park...it was an urban design project... Just be clear.

I don't know how accurate this is, but I heard Walt's original vision of "the Florida Project" began and ended with EPCOT.

However, others convinced him that no one would want to travel across the country to see an urban development project. So he was persuaded to build Magic Kingdom to attract guests.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't know how accurate this is, but I heard Walt's original vision of "the Florida Project" began and ended with EPCOT.

However, others convinced him that no one would want to travel across the country to see an urban development project. So he was persuaded to build Magic Kingdom to attract guests.

Correct...

It was only an urban project...

He begrudgingly (aka his brother and financers made him) authorize the magic kingdom to fund the city.

Walt Disney world...was never to be a "magical kingdom of vacation dreams"

But to their credit, don tatum, card walker, miller, Eisner and wells have built a wonderful complex...

Iger has not. What really has he authorized since his tenure started?
The closing of a guest area (pleasure island), mothballing, now reconstruction for third party lease.
Continue expansion of vacation club...not according to plan... Well beyond it.
Increase in CAPACITY to magic kingdom through repurposing (some addition... But a small %)
Avatar

It's just not a impressive record in the swamp.

 

[Josh Hendy]

I just don't get why the pro-Frozen crowd isn't as angry as those who are pro-Norway. They're getting just as short-changed by Disney.

Instead of a new attraction which Frozen arguably deserves, they're getting a refurb of old boat-driven technology being force-fed into the one area of WDW least themed for it

No net new ride and capacity for either group of guests.

If they looked at what was planned for Frozen overseas, they should be furious

I agree that they should be mad. The Rio Del Tiempo overlay was a DOWNGRADE because it incorporated TV screens into the ride. Who needs to go to WDW to watch a flat screen video of the 3 caballeros? And people diving off the cliffs at Acapulco? And I believe it was said that the Frozen overlay on Norway's boat ride will also "incorporate film footage".

Disney is waayyyyy mistaken if they think that people are going to save money for 1, 2 or 3 years, come to Florida and go home feeling impressed that they watched the same video footage that they've watched with their kids 100 times at home on their blu-ray flat screen, EVEN IF (or especially if) they're watching the video from the exact, same, klunky boats that they rode as children 25 years ago when the ride was called "Maelstrom".

If you take a blockbuster, stunning ride like the Harry Potter Forbidden Journey, it has video screens, but the video is wrapped inside an amazing and completely original ride system, which you experience only after entering the building through a huge, specially designed and absolutely, completely and elaborately themed village and castle.

Maybe Frozen wasn't as big a hit as the combined Harry Potter books and films, but Disney should at least be making a proportionate investment based on current and projected receipts from theaters, videos and merchandise - and I get the feeling they're falling somewhere well below that level.

 

[Reddog1134]

..
Iger has not. What really has he authorized since his tenure started?
The closing of a guest area (pleasure island), mothballing, now reconstruction for third party lease.
Continue expansion of vacation club...not according to plan... Well beyond it.
Increase in CAPACITY to magic kingdom through repurposing (some addition... But a small %)
Avatar

It's just not a impressive record in the swamp.

You forgot Flamingo Crossing.

 

[JoAnna525]

I don't think a lot of people think that they are seeing an exact representation of a country when they visit the World Showcase, with or without any incorporation of characters/movies. But I do think that it can whet the appetite for travel, even if it's not to those countries. I went as a kid and fell in love with it and wanted to go to all those places....and grew up to spend two years travelling in Asia and Africa and four years living in Europe.

Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes. This is exactly what the World Showcase did for me. I've been all over the world, and I attribute that directly to Disney showing me there were all of these wonderful places to see outside of my rural little town. This is what is upsetting about the "Disneyfication" of the world showcase.