Came across this article from an average guest

[Jennytoon]

But the time you arrived at the parks was under your control.

The point I was trying to make was that although I am aware that not everybody feels this way, I personally (and I suspect at least some other people) feel that the time I arrive at the parks is more under my control now [than it was under legacy] since I don't have to choose between getting a FP for Soarin' and being able to sleep in. To me, *that* is control.

 

[Robo]

AKA, "Reason #1"

 

[Mambo Junkie]

This is not even the only factor. I see people routinely post that under FP- everyone had an equal chance at the FP every day, and I always want to modify that statement to read "Everyone had an equal chance at FP every day whose vacation style was suited to using them optimally."

We used legacy FP, but because of our touring style we used it relatively minimally. The hyperbole that all the FP were gone by noon for every ride is not true, but it certainly is true that outside of the MK FP return times (for any ride where you really needed them) climbed fast enough that if you didn't plan to either get there at rope drop and / or stay for more than a few hours, they might as well be gone because the times were of no use to you. People complain about not being able to get a FP+ for both Soarin' and Test Track, but as a concrete example we never had one under FP- either -- by the time we could get a second after pulling one for the first of the two, the times would be during the window where our kids were out of the park napping. And standing around in front of the machine waiting for the times to get late enough that we would then be able to use it when we came back in the evening (if we did) was not actually my idea of a good way to spend our limited vacation minutes in the park.

I don't think there's any question that there is a group whose vacation style worked better with FP- than FP+. However, I think Disney went with FP+ because they think it works better with a wider variety of vacation styles (i.e. more of their visitors) than FP- did. It may not only be that Disney is marketing FP+ better, it may also be that for some segment of the population that did not utilize FP- they are now able to use FP+ *and* vacation the way they want to (most commonly cited: sleeping in), rather than having to choose.

Under legacy, we didn't feel we needed them. They were just a perk to us and it was nice to be able to legally cut the line. Now, with the controlled fp+, you not only have to know 60 days out when you're going to feel like you want to ride a particular ride, but it becomes almost necessary if you want to accomplish somewhat near as much as you had in the past and to avoid long wait times.
I still believe the goal is not so much to control crowds as it is to keep people in the parks for longer hours and more days. It's the bottom line. Guest dis/satisfaction is a by product.

 

[MrInfinity]

This makes it sound like this is some glorious product Disney created to reward guests and make people happy.

That's not at all what I said. I said it's a system Disney can control and monetize, while FP- was not. Why are you sensationalizing? You're making it out to be so dramatic when it's just not. "Reward guests and make people happy". Like these are prizes or something. Come on it's just a line queuing system. One that used to be used by around 10% of the guests, and is now used by most of the guests. It's a better system. More guest usage, more controllable, more profitable.

The Disney brass claimed it was designed to get more out of their current infrastructure without building a bunch of new rides, trick people to spend more with magicbands, and collect Big Data. They tried to cloak it in the Surprise and Delight and the theme park as a platform with never seen before 'built-in' interactivity.

Again sensationalizing. "Disney brass"? It amazes me that you use these metaphors because they took away your beloved FP-, even tho the way their using them now is actually that much better. It's a bummer that you see it this way... and I'm glad I don't.

Trick people into spending money? Come on, you are out here on a board run by a travel agency, that is trying to "trick you into spending money". Every TV show, billboard, or salesperson you talk to is trying to trick you into spending money. That is the nature of capitalism. You can negatively spin that can call it trying to trick people, or you can positively spin it and call it attempting to do business. Whichever YOU choose does not change what it is: A company offering a service that millions of people want. So you can't get your 9 FP-'s in a day any more -- so what. Disney would rather sell 3 rooms and give 3 each to those guests than 9 to you.

The more nefarious things Disney can do with this will come later when they have enough popular rides to get people to start fighting over lots of rides at 60 days. Right now only 7dmt is a problem. That isnt enough demand to start charging for them, giving bonuses to deluxe guests, or monetizing them. So far the public has been Luke warm to this locking in stuff. Disney hasn't created the 'drug' they had hoped...yet.

Again sensationalizing. I'd expect nefarious to describe Gru or Dr. Evil. I'd say the drug is there. There are around 17M other guests who are in about the same boat, as evidenced by them taking up all your Fast Passes.

But, when Frozen goes on line, the River of Light, nighttime Safari, Soarin over Pandora, it's a Blue World after All, slinky dog coaster, it could cause a run on FP+. If that happens, and the entire FP catalog becomes in demand at the 30 day mark, that is when Disney can start really messing with us.

No one is going to mess with you. You always remain in control of your future and your money. I'm guessing this is all talk, and ultimately even you will still go back.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

The point I was trying to make was that although I am aware that not everybody feels this way, I personally (and I suspect at least some other people) feel that the time I arrive at the parks is more under my control now [than it was under legacy] since I don't have to choose between getting a FP for Soarin' and being able to sleep in. To me, *that* is control.

I understand that's why you like it. For me, the advantages of FP+ don't outweigh the disadvantages.

My family never had a problem getting FP for headliners as long as we arrived before 11-12, so it worked very well for use. However, if you were never able to get any FP for headliners at Epcot, then I can see why you would might be satisfied to have one. Since my family doesn't like to wait in lines for more than 30 minutes or so and likes to ride all the headliners, we will have to stick with rope drop.

I don't think most visitors (especially domestic) stay more than a week. Unless they are able to devote more than one day to the tiered parks, the will either need to make rope drop anyway if the want to avoid long lines.

 

[MrInfinity]

The point I was trying to make was that although I am aware that not everybody feels this way, I personally (and I suspect at least some other people) feel that the time I arrive at the parks is more under my control now [than it was under legacy] since I don't have to choose between getting a FP for Soarin' and being able to sleep in. To me, *that* is control.

Jen, I feel much the same way. I love knowing that I've got Fast Passes to certain things ahead of time whether I make rope drop or not. It is great to be free from the need to grab FP tickets first thing in the morning. That was a really annoying aspect of FP-. If you didn't do it fast to rides like TSMM or Soarin, the return times moved to the afternoon, then you were stuck backtracking to return to the ride later.

Another thing regarding control is you can plan to visit a pavilion once... Under FP-, you had to go to Soarin, but not ride it... grab a ticket, leave, and come back in a couple hours. That's one reason why I think it did not appeal to so many... most guests go to Soarin, they ride Soarin. They don't think "I know we just walked up here, but let's grab a ticket and come back to ride it later". They just ride it. With FP+, you plan it... Go up to the land pavilion once, have Soarin and LWTL passes back to back, ride both, leave, and be done w that whole pavilion. It saves so much walking and wasted time.

So from a control standpoint, FP+ wins out. FP- gave you return times that you had to just take or leave... FP+ lets you pick your return times as precisely as you want.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

That's not at all what I said. I said it's a system Disney can control and monetize, while FP- was not. Why are you sensationalizing? "reward guests and make people happy". Like these are prizes or something? Come on it's just a line queuing system. One that used to be used by around 10% of the guests, and is now used by most of the guests. It's a WAY better system. More usage by most guests, more profitable, and more controllable.



Again sensationalizing. "Disney brass"? As if this is some military operation? It amazes me that one of the most respected and best run US companies draws these silly metaphors. It's kind of pointless to discuss w someone so jaded as to liken a happy vacation place to a military operation. It's really sad that you feel that way. I'm glad I don't.

Trick people into spending money? Come on man, you are out here on a board run by a travel agency, that is trying to "trick you" into spending money. Every TV show you watch, billboard you look at, or person you talk to is trying to trick you into spending money. That is the nature of capitalism. You can negatively spin that can call it trying to trick people, or you can positively spin it and call it attempting to do business. Whichever YOU choose does not change what it is: A company offering a service that millions of people want. So you can't get your 9 FP-'s in a day any more -- so what. Disney would rather sell 3 rooms and give 3 each to those guests than 9 to you.



Again the sensationalizing. Nefarious. A word I'd expect to describe Gru or Dr. Evil. I'd say the drug is there. There are around 17M other guests who are in about the same boat, as evidenced by them taking up all your Fast Passes.



No one is going to mess with you. You always remain in control of your future and your money. I'm guessing this is all talk from you, and despite you calling it essentially a military operation -- even you will still go back.

From the Free Dictionary:

Top Brass

n
1. (functioning as plural) the most important or high-ranking officials or leaders, as in politics, industry, etc.

 

[bcrook]

But FP+ works differently. Now, Disney does care who gets the FPs and how many they get and when they get used.

It will be interesting when they up the ante.

How will the public respond when Disney advertises the heck out of the Nighttime Safari and then the 2000 FPs are gone before the 60 day window opens for some people.

Or what if the Rivers of Light is like Fantasmic! at DL, and it is FP only - no standby. And those are always gone in a few days never leaving any for the 30 day mark.

Or how will this Frozen thing work out? If it is equal to the Mine Train, they will be gone in a few hours at the 60 day mark, and the standby will be prohibitive.

Those rides combined will only add up to about 13000 additional hot ticket FPs. But will serve nicely as tiers for the parks. Now there will be 15,000 or so high demand FP at MK, 7,000 at Epcot, and 6,000 at DAK. That could keep people from grabbing three days worth of 7DMT. Is that enough to drive people to stay on site like Disney hoped?

Maybe they will offer a Yak & Yeti Dinner package - a Ride on the Night Safari, Priority seating at the Rivers of Light, and a meal for $125.00?

If any of these scenarios come true - there will only be more howling.

 

[WillAustin]

The point I was trying to make was that although I am aware that not everybody feels this way, I personally (and I suspect at least some other people) feel that the time I arrive at the parks is more under my control now [than it was under legacy] since I don't have to choose between getting a FP for Soarin' and being able to sleep in. To me, *that* is control.

I guess it depends on how many attractions I want to experience at Epcot. During the time we visit, one Soarin' FP in the afternoon (plus 2 throwaway FPs) doesn't really make an enjoyable day for us.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I just think that any system that allows me to sit at home locking up fast passes without actually being in the park is flawed. With the legacy system you HAD to be in the park to benefit from the perk. I have an annual pass so I could sit here in my living room, in my underoos and pink fuzzy slippers munching on cheetos and tying up fast passes every day, 30-days in advance, for the next 11-months if I choose. Does that sound like a good system?

 

[PirateD]

I have to share a conversation this weekend between my dad and BIL as I think it relates to the article and discussion here. We were laughing hysterically about it. It went something like this:

BIL: I'm not getting up at 4 AM 90 days ahead of time just to pre-order waffles. I will just eat whatever they have left. I don't need anything fancy.

Dad: You have to pre-order your food? We used to be able to just go to the food court at the resort and pick something out.

BIL: They said we need to look at the menu so we can pre-order. I don't want to get up at 4 AM. It's not worth it. None of it sounds that good to me.

Dad: I agree. It's ridiculous! This is not the Disney I remember. Now you have to preorder your rides and your food!?!? That's not what I call a vacation. It's a nightmare!!

Of course, we are laughing hysterically because their interpretation is not quite right but still highlights some of the absurdity of it all. They knew I had gotten up at 2 AM to book FD and 3 AM to book ADRs 180 days ahead of time and my sister had mentioned that we should preorder our BOG lunch. They have been "pestered" about which rides they would like FP+ for so we can book that 60 days ahead of time. Somehow they took all of that and came up with the idea that we had to preorder all of our food at 4 AM 90 days ahead of time to get the good menu items, lol!

Listening to them talk did make all of the planning and booking ahead sound silly. I like planning a lot and I mean a lot, but I am not enjoying the level of planning now required for FP+.

 

[GaryDis]

I just think that any system that allows me to sit at home locking up fast passes without actually being in the park is flawed. With the legacy system you HAD to be in the park to benefit from the perk. I have an annual pass so I could sit here in my living room, in my underoos and pink fuzzy slippers munching on cheetos and tying up fast passes every day, 30-days in advance, for the next 11-months if I choose. Does that sound like a good system?

If many people abuse it that way, then no, it's not good. But I'm betting there aren't that many people who get their jollies that way.

If it turns out to be a problem, then they can implement fixes. In the meantime, if an Orlando-based retiree with a morning part-time job and an AP feels like riding Space Mountain every day for a month, I don't see a problem with that as long as the number of people doing so remains small.

 

[BeachClub2014]

If many people abuse it that way, then no, it's not good. But I'm betting there aren't that many people who get their jollies that way.

If it turns out to be a problem, then they can implement fixes. In the meantime, if an Orlando-based retiree with a morning part-time job and an AP feels like riding Space Mountain every day for a month, I don't see a problem with that as long as the number of people doing so remains small.

Getting jollies through FP+.....that's funny! I think the volume of posts you see on these forums heralding the different ways to game this new fiasco of a system is more indicative of jocularity and occurs with greater regularity than with legacy system.

With the legacy FP your Orlando retiree could go ride Space Mountain every day, by going to the park and getting the FP. No problems at all with that system.

 

[Jennytoon]

I just think that any system that allows me to sit at home locking up fast passes without actually being in the park is flawed. With the legacy system you HAD to be in the park to benefit from the perk. I have an annual pass so I could sit here in my living room, in my underoos and pink fuzzy slippers munching on cheetos and tying up fast passes every day, 30-days in advance, for the next 11-months if I choose. Does that sound like a good system?

Actually, you cannot do what you describe. As an AP holder, you can make FP for 7 days at a time outside of a resort stay. That is, if I have no resort stay booked, I can never hold more than 7 days of FP at one time. If I have a resort stay booked, I can hold the length of my stay at one time. So if I were so inclined (which I can't imagine why I would be), then I can do exactly as you suggest ... for 7 days. And then I either have to start cancelling the ones I have, or waiting for that thirty day window to arrive and expire them before I can make any more.

If many people abuse it that way, then no, it's not good. But I'm betting there aren't that many people who get their jollies that way.

If it turns out to be a problem, then they can implement fixes. In the meantime, if an Orlando-based retiree with a morning part-time job and an AP feels like riding Space Mountain every day for a month, I don't see a problem with that as long as the number of people doing so remains small.

There already is a limiter on this (see above). But I agree with you that if an Orlando-based retiree with a morning part-time job and an AP feels like riding Space Mountain every day for a month -- which he can still do by simply making his FP a week out on a rotating window -- then he ought to be able to. I would not even qualify it by saying that the number of people has to remain small. He bought the ticket, he's entitled to the FP, and in order to keep a rotating window of 7 days so that he always has a FP to use every day, he's booking no more than a week out -- well after the majority of visitors who are making a lengthy trip from somewhere else for a vacation have had a crack at the available slots, no matter whether they are staying on or off-site.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Actually, you cannot do what you describe. As an AP holder, you can make FP for 7 days at a time outside of a resort stay. That is, if I have no resort stay booked, I can never hold more than 7 days of FP at one time. If I have a resort stay booked, I can hold the length of my stay at one time. So if I were so inclined (which I can't imagine why I would be), then I can do exactly as you suggest ... for 7 days. And then I either have to start cancelling the ones I have, or waiting for that thirty day window to arrive and expire them before I can make any more.



There already is a limiter on this (see above). But I agree with you that if an Orlando-based retiree with a morning part-time job and an AP feels like riding Space Mountain every day for a month -- which he can still do by simply making his FP a week out on a rotating window -- then he ought to be able to. I would not even qualify it by saying that the number of people has to remain small. He bought the ticket, he's entitled to the FP, and in order to keep a rotating window of 7 days so that he always has a FP to use every day, he's booking no more than a week out -- well after the majority of visitors who are making a lengthy trip from somewhere else for a vacation have had a crack at the available slots, no matter whether they are staying on or off-site.

Thank you

 

[MrInfinity]

During the time we visit, one Soarin' FP in the afternoon (plus 2 throwaway FPs) doesn't really make an enjoyable day for us.

Did you actually spend a day in EPCOT and do one ride on Soarin and nothing else? Over how much time?

I just think that any system that allows me to sit at home locking up fast passes without actually being in the park is flawed. I could sit here in my living room, in my underoos and pink fuzzy slippers munching on cheetos and tying up fast passes every day, 30-days in advance, for the next 11-months if I choose.

Oh oh oh... and you could call every Olive Garden and make 3 reservations per day that you plan to never use! And oh! Call every Chuck-E-Cheese and schedule a birthday party you won't use either! And YES! You could order things online, and cancel them before they ship! The possibilities are endless. Before you know it, people will no longer be able to get their fill of cheap pasta and amusement games and they won't have any idea what to do with their time and you can finally control the whole TRI STATE AREA! Heh, Sounds like a plan Dr.Doofenschmirtz would come up with. Right down to the fuzzy slippers.

Does that sound like a good system?

Yes. Disney has accounted for over-booking. Much like airlines or restaurants.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Oh oh oh... and you could call every Olive Garden and make 3 reservations per day that you plan to never use! And oh! Call every Chuck-E-Cheese and schedule a birthday party you won't use either! And YES! You could order things online, and cancel them before they ship! The possibilities are endless. Before you know it, people will no longer be able to get their fill of cheap pasta and amusement games and they won't have any idea what to do with their time and you can finally control the whole TRI STATE AREA! Heh, Sounds like a plan Dr.Doofenschmirtz would come up with. Right down to the fuzzy slippers.

Oh that's clever. I have never been called a Dr. Doofenschmirtz before. I may just have to use that as a new screen name.

Disney has accounted for over-booking.

Ok, against my better judgement, I will bite. How has Disney accounted for over-booking?

 

[Magpie]

Maybe they will offer a Yak & Yeti Dinner package - a Ride on the Night Safari, Priority seating at the Rivers of Light, and a meal for $125.00?

Aw man... I'd be all over that like white on rice!!!

Besides, it won't be 125 a head at first. It'll be 65 dollars a head, and then go up incrementally each year as the popularity grows.

 

[mesaboy2]

I just think that any system that allows me to sit at home locking up fast passes without actually being in the park is flawed. With the legacy system you HAD to be in the park to benefit from the perk. I have an annual pass so I could sit here in my living room, in my underoos and pink fuzzy slippers munching on cheetos and tying up fast passes every day, 30-days in advance, for the next 11-months if I choose. Does that sound like a good system?

Since you mentioned Cheetos, yes. Take those away and, well....

 

[grnflash]

Aw man... I'd be all over that like white on rice!!!

Besides, it won't be 125 a head at first. It'll be 65 dollars a head, and then go up incrementally each year as the popularity grows.

It won't be $125 a head. It'll be $300 like the new breakfast JC experience at DL. Make that $375 (dinner is more expensive.)