Galloway Pace Groups @ RunDisney Races: The Official Discussion Thread

This is one of those gray areas. I, for instance, am a VERY slow walker. Like, 20-minute miles. My pace partner is a very fast walker. Like, she can race walk a marathon and come in around my (running) PR time. As a result, I need to run much faster than she does during each run break while she can dial back the runs and still hang with me over the course of the mile since her walk is so much faster. Since we don't run in formation, this works. Practice using intervals in your training and see where you fall on the spectrum.

And if you really want to get into the weeds with math and such, I found a super detailed pace chart online once. It seems to no longer be available on the host's web page, so I can give you instructions for how to set up the calculations in Apple Numbers which is similar to Excel. Some function names may be slightly different in Excel so YMMV.
  1. Enter your overall race distance in miles in cell A1
  2. Enter your goal finish time in cells A2 (hours) B2 (minutes) and C2 (seconds)
  3. Enter the number of minutes you will run in each interval in cell A3 (use 0.5 if you are doing 0:30 segments) and the number of minutes you will walk in each interval in cell B3
  4. Enter your average walking pace in cells A4 and B4 with A4 being the number of minutes it takes you to walk a mile and B4 being any additional seconds. (So a 16:30-minute-mile walker would enter 16 in A4 and 30 in B4. Note that the walk breaks in the Galloway method are designed to get your heart rate down, so use your "comfortable stroll" pace rather than your "race walk" pace for this calculation)
  5. Here's where the Excel magic happens:
    1. Create cell A5 with the formula of (A2 x 60) + B2 + (C2 / 60) -- this gives you the total number of minutes in your goal finish time
    2. Create cell A6 with the formula of A5 / (A3 + B3) -- this gives you the total number of run/walk cycles in your race (Note that if you are doing :30/:30 intervals or anything else that adds up to one minute, this number will be identical to the result of A5)
    3. Create cell A7 with the formula of (A6) / (A4 + (B4 / 60)) x B3 -- this gives you the total number of miles you will have walked as in aggregate throughout the entire course of the race
    4. Create cell A8 with the formula of (A5 - (A6 x B3)) / (A1 - A7) -- this gives you the pace you will need to run in minutes per mile. Note that this will be a whole number plus a decimal so a pace of 10.5 is 10:30.
    5. Create cell A9 with the formula of A3 / A8 -- this gives you the distance you will be covering during each run break in miles.
    6. Create cell A10 with the formula of INT A8 and cell B10 with the formula of (A8 - A10) x 60 -- the two cells together will give you the needed run pace in minutes (A10) and seconds (A11) per mile
    7. Create cell A11 with the formula of INT ((A2 x 60) + B2 + (C2/60)) / A1 and create cell A12 with the formula of (((A2 x 60)+ B2 + (C2 / 60)) / A1 - A11) x 60 -- the two cells together will give you the aggregate race pace in minutes (A11) and seconds (B11) per mile
That is amazing! I am very much a numbers and spreadsheet person so I'm definitely going to use this. I totally get that it really depends on the specific pacer you end up getting and what their walk speed is. My current walk speed is 20:00 but really only because that's what the Galloway app uses. I'll have to play around with other walk speeds. The races is still 10 months out and I know my speeds and ratios will likely change a fair bit over time but it's so hard for me to not get caught up in the numbers! Thanks again for all of your input, much appreciated!!!
 
I tried to read through the previous postings but I could not find whether or not there are pacers for the 1/2 at DLP. I used the pacers for the 2017 Princess 1/2 and felt really comfortable with them. Thanks!
 
I tried to read through the previous postings but I could not find whether or not there are pacers for the 1/2 at DLP. I used the pacers for the 2017 Princess 1/2 and felt really comfortable with them. Thanks!
Paris is run differently than the US races so I am not sure what pacers they use.
 
Thanks! Sorry to be such a newbie, but for the 3:00 finish time, it has an overall pace of 13:43 and a 30:30 ratio. What I don't understand is what will the running pace of that 30 seconds be? You can't run at 13:43 and then walk slower to still maintain that pace. Is the running portion a 10:00? That's what confuses me. Any help or insight is really appreciated.
It's a valid question and my unofficial-but-personally-experienced answer is that it depends on who's doing the pacing! I run a faster half than 3:15, but wound up hanging with one of the 3:15 pace groups for a while during Dark Side, since they were there when I came back on course after a photo stop and a friend of mine was a pacer. I discovered quickly that they were running a bit faster than I, and walking slower than my norm, in addition to using different intervals than I was using. For me, it was difficult because I'm very used to running/walking at my own paces, even though the overall average pace was slower than my norm.
 


Galloway pacers will be at the Tinker Bell Half Marathon. Look for us leading the following groups:

1:45 (8:00/mile)
4:00/0:30 ratio
Kris

2:00 (9:09/mile)
2:00/0:30 ratio
Scott and Jeff

2:15 (10:18/mile)
1:30/0:30 ratio
Mindy and Jesus

2:30 (11:26/mile)
1:00/0:30 ratio
Group 1 = Kelley and Liz;
Group 2 = Sheena and Jennifer

2:45 (12:35/mile)
0:30/0:30 ratio
Jen and Lailah

3:00 (13:43/mile)
0:30/0:30 ratio
Laura and Debbie

3:15 (14:53/mile)
0:15/0:30 ratio
Vicki Sue and Kimberly

3:30 (16:00/mile)
0:15/0:30 ratio
Dan and Lisa
 
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Good to see the Disneyland Half doing this. Hoping they have two different types of pace groups at Marathon Weekend.

The run/walk pace groups are good for those who train like that, but for someone like myself who trains differently, I need pace groups that run a consistent pace throughout the race.
 


Good to see the Disneyland Half doing this. Hoping they have two different types of pace groups at Marathon Weekend.

The run/walk pace groups are good for those who train like that, but for someone like myself who trains differently, I need pace groups that run a consistent pace throughout the race.
Consistent Pacing? Even some of the non-galloway guys struggle with that. One year during the full our pacer decided it would be good to savor the Magic Kingdom portion of the race. He then decided to make up the lost time by running the next mile or so at more than a minute per mile faster than the expected pace. Trying to run mile 12 of a 3:45 paced marathon at a sub 7:30 pace is not fun, so I wound up dropping out of that pace group.
 
Intervals.jpeg


Hope this isn't too small to read, but here is the pace chart that the Galloway team uses.

Is there a similar chart for the marathon pace groups or can it just be extrapolated that a 5:00 finish time would correspond to 60/30 run walk with an average pace of 11:26? During training I am doing a 60/30 interval but getting around a 10:20 pace for the overall run so I guess I am running too fast. Basically I am trying to figure out what run walk interval I should train at 60/30, 90/30, etc to reach my goal
 
Is there a similar chart for the marathon pace groups or can it just be extrapolated that a 5:00 finish time would correspond to 60/30 run walk with an average pace of 11:26? During training I am doing a 60/30 interval but getting around a 10:20 pace for the overall run so I guess I am running too fast. Basically I am trying to figure out what run walk interval I should train at 60/30, 90/30, etc to reach my goal

This is the reason that run/walk interval pacing can be way more complicated than pacing for continuous running. Individuals run and walk at different paces, so a 60/30 interval set will give one overall pace for you and a completely different pace for someone else. If you go with the Galloway pacer approach you are pretty much committing yourself to running and walking at the paces that the pacer sets whether they are comfortable for you or not.

Based on the information that you gave, I don't think it can be concluded that you are running too fast. You're just running faster (and/or walking faster) than that pacer plans to. The question is whether the pacing that your 60/30 interval gives you is sustainable over the course of the race after you've completed the training. If you think that's going to end up being too fast and unsustainable, I'd recommend playing with several variables (run rate, walk rate, run time and walk time) during your training runs to identify a comfortable interval set at a pacing that will meet your overall goal.
 
This is the reason that run/walk interval pacing can be way more complicated than pacing for continuous running. Individuals run and walk at different paces, so a 60/30 interval set will give one overall pace for you and a completely different pace for someone else. If you go with the Galloway pacer approach you are pretty much committing yourself to running and walking at the paces that the pacer sets whether they are comfortable for you or not.

Based on the information that you gave, I don't think it can be concluded that you are running too fast. You're just running faster (and/or walking faster) than that pacer plans to. The question is whether the pacing that your 60/30 interval gives you is sustainable over the course of the race after you've completed the training. If you think that's going to end up being too fast and unsustainable, I'd recommend playing with several variables (run rate, walk rate, run time and walk time) during your training runs to identify a comfortable interval set at a pacing that will meet your overall goal.

Thanks. The best I have done for a "straight run" for a distance is a 10 miler at a little better than a 9 min pace and my PR for a half is 2:05 so I am thinking that pace should be sustainable (I am not sure for a marathon length though but I am sure I will find out as the Dopey training progresses). I just started the run/walk training a month ago in an attempt to mitigate the knee issues I was having. I was looking at the Galloway site and it says a 60/30 ratio is about a 10:45-12:15 pace and like you were saying it is difficult to figure out what pace you are supposed to be running/walking at (I guess I need to do an actual Magic Mile to figure that out at least for the running pace). But so far in the 10+ runs I have not hit that 10:45 window even during this heat wave.
 
Thanks. The best I have done for a "straight run" for a distance is a 10 miler at a little better than a 9 min pace and my PR for a half is 2:05 so I am thinking that pace should be sustainable (I am not sure for a marathon length though but I am sure I will find out as the Dopey training progresses). I just started the run/walk training a month ago in an attempt to mitigate the knee issues I was having. I was looking at the Galloway site and it says a 60/30 ratio is about a 10:45-12:15 pace and like you were saying it is difficult to figure out what pace you are supposed to be running/walking at (I guess I need to do an actual Magic Mile to figure that out at least for the running pace). But so far in the 10+ runs I have not hit that 10:45 window even during this heat wave.

Based on a 10 miler at a little better than a 9 minute mile (I did exactly 9 minute mile), you get the following race equivalency profile (assuming these are recent times and this is a measure of current fitness):

Screen Shot 2017-08-09 at 3.07.08 PM.png

Which puts your estimated HM at a 1:59:52.

The way I look at it is run/walk is simply continuous running but with speed intervals and rest breaks. So, the 60/30 run/walk can be at a variety of paces to garner the same average pace. But the ability to maintain that over a longer duration can be widely different based on the pace of the run and the pace of the walk.

For instance, this is a 60/30 with an average of a 10:20 min/mile:

Screen Shot 2017-08-09 at 3.13.30 PM.png

This is a 8:47 min/mile run (or cover 0.113 miles when running) and a 16 min/mile walk (or cover 0.03 miles when walking)

This is also a 60/30 with an average of 10:20 min/mile:

Screen Shot 2017-08-09 at 3.15.38 PM.png

This is a 8:01 min/mile run (or cover 0.124 miles when running) and a 24:30 min/mile walk (or cover 0.02 miles when walking)

The difference is the 8:01 vs the 8:47 running portion. For a person of your estimated race equivalency profile, that's roughly 2 mile pace vs 10k pace. Big difference between trying to run each of those for 60/30 splits over the course of a HM or M. So, it might be helpful to look at the pace when running to help determine whether it's a sustainable pace. I've worked with a few people who were doing 60/30 or 30/30 intervals but with the running portion at race equivalency 800m or 1 mile. That's an intense workout no matter who you are. I've found when working with these people that slowing down the run pace of the run/walk has allowed them to perform better.

A big thing to keep in mind is the Galloway LR should be at HM Tempo (or M Tempo dependent on the runDisney plan) + 2 minutes (at least how I understand his instructions). Which means someone with your race equivalency profile should be spending a significant portion of training at about a 11:34 min/mile pace or slower (M Tempo of 9:34 + 2 minutes). I believe he also recommends maintaining the same run/walk timing as you intend on using on race day. So if the timing stays the same, and the walking pace is consistent, then this means you have to slow down the running pace. Like this:

Screen Shot 2017-08-09 at 3.23.12 PM.png

Now instead of a 8:47 min/mile, now you'd be doing a 10:10 min/mile. Not surprisingly to me, this puts the run portion at my scheduled "long run" pace. This means the grand majority of this run will stay nearly pure aerobic (or very easy).

This is just my best guess as to how to work through the math. Hope this helps!
 
Based on a 10 miler at a little better than a 9 minute mile (I did exactly 9 minute mile), you get the following race equivalency profile (assuming these are recent times and this is a measure of current fitness):

View attachment 260163

Which puts your estimated HM at a 1:59:52.

The way I look at it is run/walk is simply continuous running but with speed intervals and rest breaks. So, the 60/30 run/walk can be at a variety of paces to garner the same average pace. But the ability to maintain that over a longer duration can be widely different based on the pace of the run and the pace of the walk.

For instance, this is a 60/30 with an average of a 10:20 min/mile:

View attachment 260164

This is a 8:47 min/mile run (or cover 0.113 miles when running) and a 16 min/mile walk (or cover 0.03 miles when walking)

This is also a 60/30 with an average of 10:20 min/mile:

View attachment 260165

This is a 8:01 min/mile run (or cover 0.124 miles when running) and a 24:30 min/mile walk (or cover 0.02 miles when walking)

The difference is the 8:01 vs the 8:47 running portion. For a person of your estimated race equivalency profile, that's roughly 2 mile pace vs 10k pace. Big difference between trying to run each of those for 60/30 splits over the course of a HM or M. So, it might be helpful to look at the pace when running to help determine whether it's a sustainable pace. I've worked with a few people who were doing 60/30 or 30/30 intervals but with the running portion at race equivalency 800m or 1 mile. That's an intense workout no matter who you are. I've found when working with these people that slowing down the run pace of the run/walk has allowed them to perform better.

A big thing to keep in mind is the Galloway LR should be at HM Tempo (or M Tempo dependent on the runDisney plan) + 2 minutes (at least how I understand his instructions). Which means someone with your race equivalency profile should be spending a significant portion of training at about a 11:34 min/mile pace or slower (M Tempo of 9:34 + 2 minutes). I believe he also recommends maintaining the same run/walk timing as you intend on using on race day. So if the timing stays the same, and the walking pace is consistent, then this means you have to slow down the running pace. Like this:

View attachment 260166

Now instead of a 8:47 min/mile, now you'd be doing a 10:10 min/mile. Not surprisingly to me, this puts the run portion at my scheduled "long run" pace. This means the grand majority of this run will stay nearly pure aerobic (or very easy).

This is just my best guess as to how to work through the math. Hope this helps!

I have gotten the @DopeyBadger detailed analysis! :worship: This will take me a while to digest but yes, it definitely helps, thanks! I have read a few of your training posts on running slower to gain performance. Now I just have to convince my mind and body that training slower is going to get me where I want to be for the Dopey. My Marathon PR is from the 2015 Dopey and I would like to improve that to a 4:30 which should be possible as a stand-alone race based upon my other times (and your charts) but I am not sure when it is part of the Dopey. Thanks again.
 
My Marathon PR is from the 2015 Dopey and I would like to improve that to a 4:30 which should be possible as a stand-alone race based upon my other times (and your charts) but I am not sure when it is part of the Dopey. Thanks again.

So I ran the math. Based on an n of just me:

In 2015, my fitness estimated a 3:58:27 marathon. I ran a 4:27:23 Dopey marathon after attempting to PR all distances. A difference of 11%.
In 2016, my fitness estimated a 3:27:58 marathon. I ran a 3:55:35 Dopey marathon after attempting to PR all distances. A difference of 12%.
In 2017, my fitness estimated a 3:11:11 marathon. I ran a 3:20:52 Dopey marathon after attempting to PR the 5k and 10k, while the HM never occurred (and I did't run my own personal one). A difference of 5%.

Using these values, and your goal of a 4:30 Dopey marathon. You should hope to be at a marathon fitness of 4:00-4:17 (based on 5-11% drop in pace because of other races). Your current estimated fitness of 4:10 under ideal conditions and ideally trained puts you right in the middle of this range. With a good and ideal cycle of training and improvement at a normal rate of 5% (this would put estimated marathon at 3:57), your goal of a 4:30 Dopey marathon is certainly achievable. Like my running motto says, "If you want it, PROVE IT, by doing what is necessary to get it."
 
This is the reason that run/walk interval pacing can be way more complicated than pacing for continuous running. Individuals run and walk at different paces, so a 60/30 interval set will give one overall pace for you and a completely different pace for someone else. If you go with the Galloway pacer approach you are pretty much committing yourself to running and walking at the paces that the pacer sets whether they are comfortable for you or not.

I'm not sure you have to run their intervals though to sort of use a pacer. I've lined up with pacers before who run continuously rather than run/walk like I do. You can just line up and then know that you'll be playing yo-yo with them throughout the race. The same would be true for a Galloway pacer who runs different intervals. True, you couldn't plan to be following them the entire time, but they can still serve as a good guide and help assure that you are staying on pace. Typically when we've done it, I try to start far enough behind so that I can keep them in sight during walk breaks but not necessarily pass them during run intervals and then I just try to keep the buffer between me and them consistent. I've only done it a couple of times with varying results :) but in theory it would work.
 
I'm not sure you have to run their intervals though to sort of use a pacer. I've lined up with pacers before who run continuously rather than run/walk like I do. You can just line up and then know that you'll be playing yo-yo with them throughout the race. The same would be true for a Galloway pacer who runs different intervals. True, you couldn't plan to be following them the entire time, but they can still serve as a good guide and help assure that you are staying on pace. Typically when we've done it, I try to start far enough behind so that I can keep them in sight during walk breaks but not necessarily pass them during run intervals and then I just try to keep the buffer between me and them consistent. I've only done it a couple of times with varying results :) but in theory it would work.

Totally agree that you can improvise on the use of pacers both Galloway and full running. I regularly use them to gauge my relative position/time during races. A lot of people who use pacers like to use them as "pace groups" and having a set of like-minded/paced runners to cluster with for support and pace regulation. That usage is more what I was more referring to as being particularly difficult with Galloway pacing.
 
The Galloway Pacers have received their assignments. Look for us near the front of the corrals listed below. We plan to station ourselves behind the Beast Pacing group so we don't get in the way of the straight-up runners.

Corral A
1:45 (8:00/mile)
4:00/0:30 ratio
Kris and Linda

Corral B
2:00 (9:09/mile)
2:00/0:30 ratio
Jeff and Mindy

Corral D
2:15 (10:18/mile)
1:30/0:30 ratio
Scott and Jen

Corral E
2:30 (11:26/mile)
1:00/0:30 ratio
Kelley and Kimberly (that's me!)

Corral F
2:45 (12:35/mile)
0:30/0:30 ratio
Dan and Joey

Corral H
3:00 (13:43/mile)
0:30/0:30 ratio
Sean and Debbie

Corral I
3:00 (13:43/mile)
0:30/0:30 ratio
Rita and Stephanie

Corral J
3:15 (14:53/mile)
0:15/0:30 ratio
Judy and Lisa

Corral J
3:30 (16:00/mile)
0:15/0:30 ratio
Stacey and Laura

Please note that there are two 3:00 groups (one in H and one in I) and there are two groups in Corral J (3:15 and 3:30). If you run/walk and are aiming for a certain time, please swing by Jeff Galloway's booth at the expo to let us know your goal. The pace team collects data at each expo, which is then used to determine our pace assignments for future races. Sub-three has been the goal for many run/walk/runners, so we were able to make the call that two groups would be beneficial. If another time ends up being widely requested as well, we may be able to offer multiple groups for future races.
 
The Galloway Pacers have received their assignments. Look for us near the front of the corrals listed below. We plan to station ourselves behind the Beast Pacing group so we don't get in the way of the straight-up runners.

Corral A
1:45 (8:00/mile)
4:00/0:30 ratio
Kris and Linda

Corral B
2:00 (9:09/mile)
2:00/0:30 ratio
Jeff and Mindy

Corral D
2:15 (10:18/mile)
1:30/0:30 ratio
Scott and Jen

Corral E
2:30 (11:26/mile)
1:00/0:30 ratio
Kelley and Kimberly (that's me!)

Corral F
2:45 (12:35/mile)
0:30/0:30 ratio
Dan and Joey

Corral H
3:00 (13:43/mile)
0:30/0:30 ratio
Sean and Debbie

Corral I
3:00 (13:43/mile)
0:30/0:30 ratio
Rita and Stephanie

Corral J
3:15 (14:53/mile)
0:15/0:30 ratio
Judy and Lisa

Corral J
3:30 (16:00/mile)
0:15/0:30 ratio
Stacey and Laura

Please note that there are two 3:00 groups (one in H and one in I) and there are two groups in Corral J (3:15 and 3:30). If you run/walk and are aiming for a certain time, please swing by Jeff Galloway's booth at the expo to let us know your goal. The pace team collects data at each expo, which is then used to determine our pace assignments for future races. Sub-three has been the goal for many run/walk/runners, so we were able to make the call that two groups would be beneficial. If another time ends up being widely requested as well, we may be able to offer multiple groups for future races.

What's the likelihood if I show up with my athlinks and ask solutions to move me up one corral that it'll be granted? I run 2:33 now (achieved time 5 days after POT submission deadline) and all I want to do is run with the 2:30 pacer. :(
 
I am not sure. I wouldn't count on it, but I would definitely go to runner relations and try. I have heard of both successes and failures with people trying to move corrals. If the race has a results page I would print that too and bring it with.
 
I am not sure. I wouldn't count on it, but I would definitely go to runner relations and try. I have heard of both successes and failures with people trying to move corrals. If the race has a results page I would print that too and bring it with.

That's the plan. Kill with kindness and hope for the best. Otherwise I'll be the unofficial 2:30 pacer in corral F ;)
 

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