Las Vegas Shooting

[Bianca and Bernard]

Have you not seen it yourself? Trucks, explosives, knives, airplanes have all been used in mass killings. They DO use things other than guns. I am not sure I understand how you can not see that?

You do realize that most gun violence is not these types of incidents, do you not? And that a huge number of those guns are obtained illegally? People with bad things on their mind DO get guns illegally every single solitary day. And the ones doing the selling of these illegal weapons are not the sort of people who are likely to call the police. So, your logic there doesn't add up.

Mass murders with planes/fires/explosions/poisonings/etc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers_(other_incidents)


Wiki even has sections on mass murders with hand grenades and vehicles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

One thing that just struck me is this - supposedly the terrorist (which I think he should be called) set up a few cameras in the hallway of the hotel outside his room. I know he had a large suite but did it occupy the entire floor? I wonder if any other patrons of the hotel saw him installing cameras. Or if they did, maybe they just thought he was maintenance in the building....

Cameras don't have to be the size of the ones you see in restaurants or at banks. They can be itty bitty things, and can be disguised in many ways. Walk by, palm it onto the plant and walk off...10 seconds, tops.

Here's one that looks like a regular smoke detector: https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Sec...214172&sr=1-3&keywords=hidden+camera+wireless.

One that looks like a USB charger: https://www.amazon.com/New-Security...14172&sr=1-10&keywords=hidden+camera+wireless

Here's an itty bitty one that could be put in a plant or on the door frame: https://www.amazon.com/Kingslim-Por...14257&sr=1-46&keywords=hidden+camera+wireless

 

[msjprincess]

This really bothers me, is the sheriff saying this because there is actual evidence that he was working with someone, or is it just a feeling he has because he can't fathom Paddock did it all on his own? I can't imagine how he personally feels about what happened in his city, but he is still a law enforcement official and IMO they should be reporting facts, not personal speculation. If there is evidence, report that they have evidence that he was working with someone. If there isn't at this time, he can just say they are investigating it.

I thought the same thing. I wish he wouldn't say that to the media unless there is actual evidence. It's just feeding into all of the conspiracy theorists.

 

[wenrob]

This really bothers me, is the sheriff saying this because there is actual evidence that he was working with someone, or is it just a feeling he has because he can't fathom Paddock did it all on his own? I can't imagine how he personally feels about what happened in his city, but he is still a law enforcement official and IMO they should be reporting facts, not personal speculation. If there is evidence, report that they have evidence that he was working with someone. If there isn't at this time, he can just say they are investigating it.

Both he and the FBI agent did say that they don’t have any evidence of him working with someone at this time. Then the later the Sheriff did say his personal belief was that he couldn’t have done all that alone. It IS pretty hard to wrap your head around this being a one man operation but I agree, he shouldn’t have said that. It feeds the speculation and rumors that are very clearly frustrating him.

 

[nd5056]

This really bothers me, is the sheriff saying this because there is actual evidence that he was working with someone, or is it just a feeling he has because he can't fathom Paddock did it all on his own? I can't imagine how he personally feels about what happened in his city, but he is still a law enforcement official and IMO they should be reporting facts, not personal speculation. If there is evidence, report that they have evidence that he was working with someone. If there isn't at this time, he can just say they are investigating it.

My thoughts are this, all points to one man show. But he brought in and moved around lots of stuff, like the 10 suitcases for example, without attracting any attention to himself.


Now, did he had a network to help him or with the money he had, he just simply used the Casino service people to help him out in exchange for a generous tip. From all the people, he knew the power of money and what money can buy. But he took steps to isolate everyone around him from the post investigation, I keep wondering about that.


Again, it’s only my speculation, not a fact. (Who would think I’d need a disclaimer in my post around here… )

 

[wonder whisper]

It seems like there is a lot they aren't saying right now because they are still trying to uncover so many unknowns.

Correct, and people should be prepared for the possibility the investigation may never reach a simple, "a-ha, that's why" conclusion of what caused this guy to turn into a sinister, raging psychopath. And that wouldn't be the first time society is left pondering the motives of a mass murderer. The 1982 Tylenol murders are a classic example.

 

[wenrob]

double post

 

[wenrob]

It seems like there is a lot they aren't saying right now because they are still trying to uncover so many unknowns.

Oh they said as much. Multiple times.

 

[cabanafrau]

One thing that just struck me is this - supposedly the terrorist (which I think he should be called) set up a few cameras in the hallway of the hotel outside his room. I know he had a large suite but did it occupy the entire floor? I wonder if any other patrons of the hotel saw him installing cameras. Or if they did, maybe they just thought he was maintenance in the building....

His suite was large, but nowhere near the size of the entire floor. I've never been up in the hotel towers of Mandalay, but I can tell you that it's common on forums discussing Vegas travel for people to discuss the length of the walk to various rooms from the elevators in the resorts. If you've never visited yourself photos of hotel exteriors can be incredibly deceiving. Even walking around there it's easy to think, oh, let's just cut through the next hotel and walk out the front to the walkway across the street to the hotel across the street. It wouldn't be surprising for that jaunt to be half an hour, possibly more.

As far as the cameras, I have no idea what he actually did beyond placing a camera in the peephole of the doorway. My guess would be he kept a room service cart in his room, placed a camera on it and wheeled it out into the hallway before he started raining down gunfire from his room. Wouldn't be much of anything for anyone to have noticed. I can tell you that on a trip to another Vegas resort we stayed one room from the end of a long hallway during a time when the resort was approaching full occupancy. Going back and forth to our room multiple times per day over multiple days we saw a housekeeping cart and an open door to the empty room being cleaned one time and another time passed a single guest exiting his room. It sticks out in my mind because we knew our hallway was fully booked because we had a strip view room and during check-in the clerk was trying to help us get the best view possible and struggled for choice because it was so booked up. Seems strange that in such a large hotel at such a busy time we would never hear anyone in the hallway, run across housekeeping staff and literally only have two sightings of either in our hallway.

 

[longboard55]

1. His suite was large, but nowhere near the size of the entire floor. I've never been up in the hotel towers of Mandalay, but I can tell you that it's common on forums discussing Vegas travel for people to discuss the length of the walk to various rooms from the elevators in the resorts. If you've never visited yourself photos of hotel exteriors can be incredibly deceiving. Even walking around there it's easy to think, oh, let's just cut through the next hotel and walk out the front to the walkway across the street to the hotel across the street. It wouldn't be surprising for that jaunt to be half an hour, possibly more.
   
   As far as the cameras, I have no idea what he actually did beyond placing a camera in the peephole of the doorway. My guess would be he kept a room service cart in his room, placed a camera on it and wheeled it out into the hallway before he started raining down gunfire from his room. Wouldn't be much of anything for anyone to have noticed. I can tell you that on a trip to another Vegas resort we stayed one room from the end of a long hallway during a time when the resort was approaching full occupancy. Going back and forth to our room multiple times per day over multiple days we saw a housekeeping cart and an open door to the empty room being cleaned one time and another time passed a single guest exiting his room. It sticks out in my mind because we knew our hallway was fully booked because we had a strip view room and during check-in the clerk was trying to help us get the best view possible and struggled for choice because it was so booked up. Seems strange that in such a large hotel at such a busy time we would never hear anyone in the hallway, run across housekeeping staff and literally only have two sightings of either in our hallway.

   We have little cameras at home to watch our dogs, they are about the size of an apple and have no wires and work off wifi, they would be easy to hide in a food cart. Have you ever noticed they take a long time to pick up room service carts

 

[msjprincess]

His suite was large, but nowhere near the size of the entire floor. I've never been up in the hotel towers of Mandalay, but I can tell you that it's common on forums discussing Vegas travel for people to discuss the length of the walk to various rooms from the elevators in the resorts. If you've never visited yourself photos of hotel exteriors can be incredibly deceiving. Even walking around there it's easy to think, oh, let's just cut through the next hotel and walk out the front to the walkway across the street to the hotel across the street. It wouldn't be surprising for that jaunt to be half an hour, possibly more.

As far as the cameras, I have no idea what he actually did beyond placing a camera in the peephole of the doorway. My guess would be he kept a room service cart in his room, placed a camera on it and wheeled it out into the hallway before he started raining down gunfire from his room. Wouldn't be much of anything for anyone to have noticed. I can tell you that on a trip to another Vegas resort we stayed one room from the end of a long hallway during a time when the resort was approaching full occupancy. Going back and forth to our room multiple times per day over multiple days we saw a housekeeping cart and an open door to the empty room being cleaned one time and another time passed a single guest exiting his room. It sticks out in my mind because we knew our hallway was fully booked because we had a strip view room and during check-in the clerk was trying to help us get the best view possible and struggled for choice because it was so booked up. Seems strange that in such a large hotel at such a busy time we would never hear anyone in the hallway, run across housekeeping staff and literally only have two sightings of either in our hallway.

Oh yes, everything in Vegas looks much closer than it is. LOL We once stayed in the last room in the hallway at NY NY. It was a long hike and I don't recall seeing other people in the hall.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Mass murders with planes/fires/explosions/poisonings/etc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers_(other_incidents)


Wiki even has sections on mass murders with hand grenades and vehicles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers




Cameras don't have to be the size of the ones you see in restaurants or at banks. They can be itty bitty things, and can be disguised in many ways. Walk by, palm it onto the plant and walk off...10 seconds, tops.

Here's one that looks like a regular smoke detector: https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Sec...214172&sr=1-3&keywords=hidden+camera+wireless.

One that looks like a USB charger: https://www.amazon.com/New-Security...14172&sr=1-10&keywords=hidden+camera+wireless

Here's an itty bitty one that could be put in a plant or on the door frame: https://www.amazon.com/Kingslim-Por...14257&sr=1-46&keywords=hidden+camera+wireless

Did you actually look at those Wikipedia links? The first one has 97 entries with only about 10 in the US.
The second one, most of the US ones involve some type of firearm and school massacres and workplace killings are not included.

 

[cabanafrau]

1. 
   We have little cameras at home to watch our dogs, they are about the size of an apple and have no wires and work off wifi, they would be easy to hide in a food cart. Have you ever noticed they take a long time to pick up room service carts

I don't ever remember noticing room service carts lingering in hallways, but I have been annoyed and grossed out at several hotels in many locations (Polynesian included) by room service trays sitting on the floor in the hallways overnight. On that basis I'd assume it's safe to say room service carts are just as likely to hang around a loong time before being picked up.

 

[Hikergirl]

My thoughts are this, all points to one man show. But he brought in and moved around lots of stuff, like the 10 suitcases for example, without attracting any attention to himself.


Now, did he had a network to help him or with the money he had, he just simply used the Casino service people to help him out in exchange for a generous tip. From all the people, he knew the power of money and what money can buy. But he took steps to isolate everyone around him from the post investigation, I keep wondering about that.


Again, it’s only my speculation, not a fact. (Who would think I’d need a disclaimer in my post around here… )

I have never been to Vegas, but I know of the reputation it has, you know what happens in Vegas...
So I wouldn't think a man who otherwise seemed normal would draw any attention by moving around alot of stuff. I imagine that hotel was very busy, him coming in with suitcases over a period of days may not have stood out to anyone because he himself didn't stand out. He looked like a regular guy. And he could have used hotel staff to help him but its not like they are going through his bags and know what he was bringing up there. If he planned this, he may have planned to use different staff members to not arise any suspicion. If he was a high roller, maybe things were overlooked because he had money to spend.
I think he was a one man show too, I think he quietly planned it and quietly executed his plan without drawing any attention.

I think speculation here is much different than (public) speculation by law enforcement. Obviously they have to speculate in order to investigate but I don't think they should be announcing things in the media unless they know for a fact. Even then, they usually just say they can't comment on an ongoing investigation. I think like the pp's, it feeds into all the conspiracy theories and then people like his girlfriend, or any of his friends or family may end up receiving very unfair judgment and treatment by the press.

 

[cabanafrau]

I have never been to Vegas, but I know of the reputation it has, you know what happens in Vegas...
So I wouldn't think a man who otherwise seemed normal would draw any attention by moving around alot of stuff. I imagine that hotel was very busy, him coming in with suitcases over a period of days may not have stood out to anyone because he himself didn't stand out. He looked like a regular guy. And he could have used hotel staff to help him but its not like they are going through his bags and know what he was bringing up there. If he planned this, he may have planned to use different staff members to not arise any suspicion. If he was a high roller, maybe things were overlooked because he had money to spend.
I think he was a one man show too, I think he quietly planned it and quietly executed his plan without drawing any attention.

I think speculation here is much different than (public) speculation by law enforcement. Obviously they have to speculate in order to investigate but I don't think they should be announcing things in the media unless they know for a fact. Even then, they usually just say they can't comment on an ongoing investigation. I think like the pp's, it feeds into all the conspiracy theories and then people like his girlfriend, or any of his friends or family may end up receiving very unfair judgment and treatment by the press.

He stayed there several days. Let's say he checks in and brings in two of his bags. A couple hours later he returns from dinner and brings up another bag from his car. Rinse and repeat that over the next couple days and it's easy to see that he could have done that with the same person seeing him a time or two and not thinking anything of it. I know from reading travel forums that it's common particularly for UK and Australia visitors to Vegas to do a LOT of shopping while in Vegas, frequently buying new pieces of luggage for the return trip home to hold it all. When we travel it's common to see people wheeling luggage and full luggage trolleys around hotels all the time. I'm sure people have seen us schlepping our bags around hotels on our travels. People travel with their stuff. Thankfully 99.99% of the time it offends nothing but the occasional fashion sense of onlookers.

 

[Magpie]

You won't believe this, but I'll try...

Some poor misguided soul actually killed himself trying to chow down a Big Mac in one bite. Ouch.

 

[Magpie]

I think speculation here is much different than (public) speculation by law enforcement. Obviously they have to speculate in order to investigate but I don't think they should be announcing things in the media unless they know for a fact. Even then, they usually just say they can't comment on an ongoing investigation. I think like the pp's, it feeds into all the conspiracy theories and then people like his girlfriend, or any of his friends or family may end up receiving very unfair judgment and treatment by the press.

Aren't sheriffs elected officials in the US?

That, to my mind, makes them not just law enforcement, but also politicians.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As an FYI according to the news conference (yesterday @ 5pm-ish Vegas time) the sheriff has updated the numbers to 58 dead + 1 (i.e. the shooter) and 489 injured instead of 59 dead (which previously included the shooter) and 527 injured.

The updated number reflects hospital records, etc that have been updated to exclude those involved in things like car accidents, other going ons but not the actual incident.

I honestly don't remember the number but it was over 300 of the 489 that have already been released from the hospitals.

 

[mefordis]

Well, it started with Airline's regulations, the liquids allowed on carry on. Like the shampoo, then Scotch, Sudafed and ended up with Kinder Eggs. All about good and bad regulations. Totally not meant to disrespect the tragedy, just picturing a regulation, enforced without a common sense.

It wasn't about airline regulations. Kinder Eggs have been banned in the US since 1938 because they are said to be a choking hazard for kids.

The Kinder Surprise, which is manufactured by an Italian company called Ferrero, has been banned in this country since 1938. That’s when the Food and Drug Administration passed the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act, which prohibits any “non-nutritive component” (for example, a toy) from being embedded in a confectionary product, as the Foodbeast reported. Kinder Surprise Eggs aren’t safe for kids under 3 years old, a clear violation of the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission requirement, which states that candy-with-ensconced-toys must be safe for kids of all ages.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2013/03/toy-filled-chocolate-eggs-legal-in-us/

 

[nd5056]

It wasn't about airline regulations. Kinder Eggs have been banned in the US since 1938 because...

I was referring to all the discussion posts in this thread only, how it morphed into Kinder Eggs discussion

 

[wenrob]

Aren't sheriffs elected officials in the US?

That, to my mind, makes them not just law enforcement, but also politicians.

Which has what to do with what’s being discussed? Are you implying he’s feeding the media for votes?

What I saw was a very, very exhausted man who was being pounded with the same question over and over, day after day. It felt to me like he cracked a little bit. Should he have? No, absolutely not. His personal thoughts should have never entered the equation. At least not out loud and not to the public. And while I don’t excuse that I’m not going to throw him under the bus either.