What would you do (renters)

[brunette8706]

Hello Disers

We currently have a beautiful rental villa 8 miles from Disney with a large pool with waterfalls. We rent at a very reasonable rate. We rent based on 6 people anything over 6 is a $50 per person charge which is on the contract. It’s a 3 bedroom villa with a pull out sofa. Sleeps a total of 6 plus the pullout. We did get a new security system installed out side the house with cameras.

So our renter came in who signed the contract for 6 people but the camera picked up 13 people all with suitcases. There were about 5 small kids, teenagers and 4 adults. One brat kid even gave us some finger gestures at the camera!!

Not sure how to handle this situation but would love to get input or perspective on what to do with this scenario. I know what to do going forward.

 

[cabanafrau]

What provisions are in the rental contract?

 

[zoo2tycoon]

Do you have a security deposit that you can keep for the extra guest charges? Do you live near where you can go by or a property manager? Have you contacted them and told them that they need to pay? Can you remove them since they broke/violated agreement?

As PP said depends on contract.

 

[brunette8706]

What provisions are in the rental contract?

Hi! Just basically the norm about trash, clean up leave the place tidy. We also tell them to list the persons name and age. We tell them on the contract that anymore people over the over the 6 limit is a $50 per person charge. Then they sign the contract and mail back to us. We do no collect security deposit since most people are honest and we never had the villa damaged. We have never had cameras before so this is new to us. We usually get rentals from my husbands nationwide corporate offices.

 

[brunette8706]

Hi. No we live 950 miles away. We have never collected a security deposit but we will be changing this. We do have a cleaning lady who is a friend that lives a mile away.

 

[bcla]

If it was barely over, maybe letting it slide is the prudent thing to do.

You need good documentation and provide lots of those pictures. I'd say it would be a good idea to also make it clear in your contract that all offenses may be captured on cameras and that they consent to the use of those cameras.

It could be worse. The city of South Lake Tahoe, California has issues with short-term home rentals. They have a local ordinance with fines (both to the renter and the the owner) of $1000 for violations. Most owners put in the contract that the renter is liable for both fines. Any short-term rental permit specifies the maximum number of guests and the maximum number of vehicles. Guests aren't allowed to park on the street, even to unload stuff. They even have a few full-time inspectors who go around looking for violations.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/south-lake-tahoe-vacation-home-rentals-noise-parking-fines-increase/
"Imagine if you come to Tahoe here… suddenly somebody parks for a minute on the street; they get a $1,000 fine. How are they going to feel about that? They're going to hate Tahoe, they're going to hate California, they're never coming back here again!" Miller said.

He's received two fines. And under the city's updated rules, if he gets one more ticket, he'll be banned from renting his home for life.

"I don't want to feel like I'm unwelcome... I mean, that doesn't make any sense at all. I'm contributing to the city's economy. Why am I being punished for that?" Miller said.​

https://www.rgj.com/story/money/bus...rbnb-lake-tahoe-vhr-fine-ordinance/460517002/

https://www.rgj.com/story/money/bus...r-parking-fine-vacation-rental-law/552138002/
Although the steep fines were designed as a deterrent to nuisance such as loud partying, overcrowding and improper trash disposal, an investigation by the Reno Gazette Journal found that South Lake Tahoe’s updated ordinance has mostly turned into a tool for handing out $2,000 fines for parking since it took effect on Dec. 22.

Parking accounted for 60 percent of all violations cited by the city’s code enforcement officers. These include cases where vacationers did not exceed the maximum number of cars allowed but parked on the street just outside the house or an unpaved surface.​

 

[cabanafrau]

It seems you may want to consider some new policies as you've indicated, perhaps along with some tweaks to your current contract language. Your comments don't seem to indicate a process for collecting the fee for extra guests -- nor even any indication as to whether or not you're familiar with local ordinances regarding occupancy limits. No doubt your insurance company and the fire marshal might take issue with the situation as is.

 

[Bren's Mom]

I would call them on it, personally. And let them know they owe $350 more for the rental. It's unfortunate you don't have a security deposit and have it written into the contract that you can withhold security if they're over the 6 and didn't disclose that. So definitely I'd do things different going forward.

I wouldn't expect the money, but I'd definitely send an invoice. Perhaps they won't try to take advantage of another landlord in the future!

 

[brunette8706]

It seems you may want to consider some new policies as you've indicated, perhaps along with some tweaks to your current contract language. Your comments don't seem to indicate a process for collecting the fee for extra guests -- nor even any indication as to whether or not you're familiar with local ordinances regarding occupancy limits. No doubt your insurance company and the fire marshal might take issue with the situation as is.

We do have on the contract a page to add their names along with the extra guests. The extra guest fee is to be paid along with the full rent 2 weeks before their vacation

Good point!!!! We should add a declaration with local ordinances. Never thought of that. Thanks!

 

[MrsJackSparrow4Life]

Can you absolutely 100% prove all 13 people are staying the entire time? If so I would look into local ordinances to see what your options are. If you can’t prove it, there is a good chance they will try stating they had people visiting during the day but they slept elsewhere.

Either way I would look into updating that contract, letting people know about the security cameras and what will happen if they are caught violating anything in the contract. Starting a Security deposit would be a good idea since that would be your best bet to actually get restitution from violations.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

Does the contract mention they could be recorded on cameras? If not, I wouldn't use the evidence from the cameras to try and collect what they owe. Some states have laws about recording people without their permission. I would at least check into that for FL before mentioning anything you have learned from the cameras.

 

[brunette8706]

I would call them on it, personally. And let them know they owe $350 more for the rental. It's unfortunate you don't have a security deposit and have it written into the contract that you can withhold security if they're over the 6 and didn't disclose that. So definitely I'd do things different going forward.

I wouldn't expect the money, but I'd definitely send an invoice. Perhaps they won't try to take advantage of another landlord in the future!

Yes! We are definitely going to rewrite the contract going forward. Thank you! Great ideas!

I’m afraid if I say something they could possibly do damage to the home. After seeing the brat give us finger gestures on camera it gave me an ill feeling.

 

[brunette8706]

Can you absolutely 100% prove all 13 people are staying the entire time? If so I would look into local ordinances to see what your options are. If you can’t prove it, there is a good chance they will try stating they had people visiting during the day but they slept elsewhere.

Either way I would look into updating that contract, letting people know about the security cameras and what will happen if they are caught violating anything in the contract. Starting a Security deposit would be a good idea since that would be your best bet to actually get restitution from violations.

Great ideas. Thank you! The family all came in at once. All adults had suitcases. They rented one of those huge transit vans that hold 15 people.

 

[brunette8706]

Does the contract mention they could be recorded on cameras? If not, I wouldn't use the evidence from the cameras to try and collect what they owe. Some states have laws about recording people without their permission. I would at least check into that for FL before mentioning anything you have learned from the cameras.

The cameras are outside of the house near the front door. Since it is a security camera outside the home I would think that wouldn’t be breaking any law. I will check into this further though. Thanks for your input.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

I’d probably call them on it, if I have a phone number I’d call them right now, send them a bill, but they will probably deny it.
I’d absolute change how I handle things going forward, maybe go through a local rental agency, 950 miles away makes it difficult to handle matters like this.

 

[Mermaid02]

Yes! We are definitely going to rewrite the contract going forward. Thank you! Great ideas!

I’m afraid if I say something they could possibly do damage to the home. After seeing the brat give us finger gestures on camera it gave me an ill feeling.

I agree- I wouldn't call them on it because they might get vindictive. I would send them an invoice for the extra guests after the stay is over and of course don't rent to them again. I agree with what everyone has said about changing your contracts and including a security deposit.

 

[bcla]

Does the contract mention they could be recorded on cameras? If not, I wouldn't use the evidence from the cameras to try and collect what they owe. Some states have laws about recording people without their permission. I would at least check into that for FL before mentioning anything you have learned from the cameras.

Most states only have "wiretapping" laws on recording audio. Maybe peeping Tom laws on places where there's a reasonable expectation of privacy. However, I've heard of people who literally have cameras pointed at all of their neighbor's houses, and there's generally nothing illegal that about in most places.

Florida has a "video voyeurism" law. Security cameras in a place where there's no expectation of privacy are fine.

https://legalbeagle.com/6821458-video-taping-laws-florida.html

 

[brunette8706]

I agree- I wouldn't call them on it because they might get vindictive. I would send them an invoice for the extra guests after the stay is over and of course don't rent to them again. I agree with what everyone has said about changing your contracts and including a security deposit.

I totally agree! It just makes me so mad that people have to lie. Ugh.

 

[bcla]

The cameras are outside of the house near the front door. Since it is a security camera outside the home I would think that wouldn’t be breaking any law. I will check into this further though. Thanks for your input.

You're definitely not breaking the law. The only law applies to places where there's a reasonable possibility that someone may be unclothed.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ute&URL=0800-0899/0810/Sections/0810.145.html

 

[yoopermom]

We have a regular, not vacation, rental, but have something in our contract along the lines of, "Home owner or appointed representative can enter the property at any time that contract violations are suspected". Since we also make them list exactly who will be living there, if we suspect more, we have stopped and checked in on a similar situation. (And it would be easier with a rental, I would think.)

And I would also definitely add a deposit in the future, just to cover this type of thing.

Good luck!

Terri