College entrance cheating scandal

[justafigment27]

It seems as though several of the “athletic recruits” had NO idea that their parents bribed their way in ... can you imagine thinking you got into a school based on your own academic merit only discover that your parents bribed a coach? I cannot imagine the sense of betrayal and humiliation those kids are feeling.

 

[justafigment27]

I also read that some of the kids weren’t even aware of any of this. Can you imagine thinking you were accepted on your own merit and then finding out it was because your parents cheated and lied. Pathetic all around.

I just posted something similar (didn’t read all the comments before I posted ... oops). I absolutely agree with you. I cannot even imagine how those kids must feel. And how do you feel as a parent KNOWING that you set your poor kid up for this huge scandal?!

 

[superme80]

I'm just shocked they got caught!

 

[luvsJack]

Not always. DD went to school with a girl who cheated her way all the way through high school. Didn't make any bones about it. In fact, she bragged. She was in a power position on a certain team/activity and minions who wanted to get in her good graces were all too happy to give her the answers, etc. Relatives wrote her papers and did her homework. They got a highly questionable disability diagnosis which allows her extra time on assignments and tests. So she starts a test in class with everyone else, "can't" finish, leaves class and gets the answers from others, and goes back later to finish the test.....with a huge advantage.

When she chose a college, her talent in this activity made her eligible for scholarships and that isn't unusual. But she was not raised by her parents, who lost custody to relatives. Yet her FAFSA is based on the income of the low income parents, so she gets tons of grant money too, despite the well to do relative actually paying all her bills. She uses the same tactics at college as HS. Relatives do all the work they can, her "disability" gives her an incredible amount of extra time to get the answers from classmates who have finished the test, etc. Add to that, her roommate is a tutor paid by the college and roommate does much of her work. She brags that she barely does anything. This has worked like a charm for her and it will continue to do so.

If anyone thinks I'm being snarky about her diagnosis, it's because in the many years I've known her, no one has seen ANY evidence of this disability. No one. And you would notice it. Just about everyone doubts it. She doesn't even see the sort of doctor you'd see, but occasionally goes to the family GP, who just keeps signing her paperwork. And she barely sees him. But she's milked that diagnosis for all it's worth.

I have zero doubt she will graduate from college. She will get a job and continue to play the "poor me" card to get others to carry part of her load. There are just some people who know how to work every angle. I couldn't even carry it off if I wanted. DD's classes are such that we couldn't help her if we tried. But don't kid yourself. There are college graduates who did NOT earn their degrees.

FAFSA will only use the parent or adoptive parent income. No one else. Doesn’t matter who raises the student. She didn’t cheat that one. If she was a ward of the court, that makes her an independent student so they use her income.

As for the tutor, a lot of college athletes do have them. And I am sure many of the tutors do the work. 35 years ago when I attended the local university, I had a sociology process who complained often about how the football players were required a lower ACT score than other students and were roomed with their tutor. Frustrating, yes, but not new. And I fault the schools more than the student. Most 19-20 year olds would happily accept all that help thrown their way.

 

[Grumpy's Gal]

I also read that some of the kids weren’t even aware of any of this. Can you imagine thinking you were accepted on your own merit and then finding out it was because your parents cheated and lied. Pathetic all around.

Some kids didn't know about their parents involvement. I think Lori Loughlin's kids both did. I think they are the ones who pretended to row crew and posed for pictures on ERG machines in order to get into The University of Spoiled Children. Their dad emailed the pix to their “ contact” and cc’d Loughlin so it ties both parents to the crime.

 

[ronandannette]

It seems as though several of the “athletic recruits” had NO idea that their parents bribed their way in ... can you imagine thinking you got into a school based on your own academic merit only discover that your parents bribed a coach? I cannot imagine the sense of betrayal and humiliation those kids are feeling.

Weren't a fair number of the students "recruited" for sports they didn't even play? If they aren't clever enough to connect those dots themselves I guess it's no wonder they couldn't get accepted to a decent school...

 

[tcufrog]

Prestigious universities have plenty of professors with the accolades you mentioned but the real question is how many of them actually teach classes. My daughter was a graduate assistant at a top 20 university and was teaching labs and grading papers for the big named professor. She was doing this one year out of just graduating herself from a big state school.

When I was in grad school I signed up for a class taught by a professor who was famous in my field and who was president of my state professional organization. I never met him or had any contact with him. The entire class was run by his graduate assistant. I learned nothing which sucked because I was excited about the topic.

One of the best things my dh and I did for our professional futures was attending a university for undergrad that didn’t have graduate departments in our fields. His department (engineering) decided to focus on undergrad education so he got a lot of research and mentor ship opportunities usually reserved for grad students. I was a religion major. My university had a seminary that had an entirely different building and staff so the religion department didn’t have any grad students to lean on. All my classes were taught by professors and all of my work was graded by them too. The department attracted professors who were passionate about undergraduate education and who did some impressive research.

My other major was history. The classes were usually larger than my religion classes, some were taught by grad students, and I stopped going to departmental advising because it was useless compared to the advising offered by the religion department.

I am surprised why so many people are shocked! This is nothing new. The only difference now is that these people were stupid enough to do something illegal and got caught! Although many colleges claim to be need-blind, they always pick average students with parents who have more money over top students. They are hoping that these parents and their children (future alumni) would eventually donate a lot of money to the school.

The way universities are funded is so messed up that few universities can really afford to have need blind admissions. Most need a certain percentage of full ride students to help pay for those who need financial help.

Part of the blame goes to the universities themselves. Too many of them spend more than they should on administrative staff, athletics, and the student amenities arms race. Student dorms don’t need to be nicer than my first apartment. Fitness centers don’t need a climbing wall or lazy river.

 

[tzolkin]

What I wonder is if some of the kids who were accepted at those colleges did not get in by merit then how do they keep up with the work?

I have seen many instances where the parents (usually moms) do most of the coursework for the kids. Obviously testing would be an issue since the student usually must test in person, but the moms writing the papers and doing assignments is usually enough to pass even if the test scores are low. Depending on the courses, there may never be any tests since many professors only assign papers.

 

[Kellydelly]

It really makes me curious how much more challenging the actual class material is at a school like Harvard, vs your average state school. Do you really need a perfect ACT score to handle the workload? Are the parents buying good grades for these kids if they can't keep up with the classes? Or is the difficulty level about the same at all colleges, and they earn their "elite" status based on other factors?

My daughter goes to University of Michigan, which is considered a "public ivy" and I am pretty sure the coursework is more rigorous than at a regular state school. She is working her butt off! She is not taking many fluff classes, she is in calculus and physics. If the kids who are getting into these schools without their own merit are not taking a difficult major maybe they can skate through. If you can hire a tutor to hold your hand or do your homework for you I guess that would help too!

 

[bdcp]

What I wonder is if some of the kids who were accepted at those colleges did not get in by merit then how do they keep up with the work? Now this is all assumption on my part but if you were accepted at Harvard or Yale would the rigor and expectation be a little bit higher than a state school that accepts lower level scores? At some point I would think the gig would be up if you could not keep up with the challenges.

I heard something yesterday and I agree with it. These kids are not majoring in STEM. They are majoring in drama, art, psychology, etc. Liberal Art degrees that aren't as academically rigorous as those like Engineering, Sciences, pre-law, pre-med, all classes that have heavy focus on math and science classes. Anyway, point is that even though they were getting into these schools, they aren't majoring in STEM so they can get through and graduate, probably not with a 4.0, but as a lot of kids say "C's get degrees".

My oldest son could have gotten into many schools, but he selected UVA and was early admitted. He went to a Governor's HS in VA that you had to test into and be nominated by teachers, as well as write essays. He did very well there and got in completely on his own. Some parents hired tutors for their kids so they could do well on the test and get admitted, but we wanted to know our son was able to do the work. I had several teachers and counselors tell me he would do well anywhere he went and he did. He was a math and astronomy double major. He took differential equations his first semester at UVA. Something that someone who wasn't academically prepared couldn't get through. Our youngest son was an average student and ended up with an associates that focused on IT which he is very good at. Both have very good jobs and make similar incomes. They're 33 and 35 now, but they did well right out of school and they did it themselves. We paid for school, but they did the work.

 

[JaxDad]

Some kids didn't know about their parents involvement. I think Lori Loughlin's kids both did. I think they are the ones who pretended to row crew and posed for pictures on ERG machines in order to get into The University of Spoiled Children. Their dad emailed the pix to their “ contact” and cc’d Loughlin so it ties both parents to the crime.

For punishment they should be forced to actually row crew! As a former oarsman, I think it would be a great lesson for them.

 

[NotUrsula]

Non-stem disciplines can be plenty rigorous if the dept chooses to make them so, but you have to understand that the social sciences/liberal arts are very paper-heavy, so it is easier to cheat by hiring someone else to write them for you, especially now when so much is turned in online rather than in-person. My DS is a senior anthro/psych dual major at a state school, and his writing load is absolutely insane. Even when I was a history major back in the stone age, the workload required reading 300 pages a day to keep up, and I spent EVERY spring break up to my neck in a half-dozen papers to write. I also tutored for the athletic department, and because of that I got approached to sell my work at least once a week.

I wouldn't waste time feeling sorry for kids whose parents got them in by bribe or artifice. Chances are VERY good that they are quite proud of their family ability to manipulate the system. There are a whole lot of people in this world who more highly value the ability to manipulate people over the ability to master information or a technical skill.

 

[justafigment27]

Weren't a fair number of the students "recruited" for sports they didn't even play? If they aren't clever enough to connect those dots themselves I guess it's no wonder they couldn't get accepted to a decent school...

Yeah, but if you read some of the articles, the kids have NO IDEA this is happening. There are direct quotes from the wiretaps where the parents are clarifying that their kids will “never know”. Some of these parents were doing this behind the scenes and their kids had no knowledge it was even going on ... it’s not like a true recruiting scenario where the coach is contacting the kid or the kid is making a campus visit and talking with the coaches and athletes in the program. It’s just about creating a false athletic profile that the paid off coach feeds the admissions team. In one instance, a student is asked about being an athlete in a sport he doesn’t participate in and he has no idea why he’s being asked that question.

I’m sure there were some kids who were in on what was going on and just thought it was part of their rich kid privilege. But it appears that there were others who just had no idea and not because they were stupid ... but because their wealthy parents worked to keep the information hidden.

And this isn’t just about getting into “decent” schools ... I’m sure some of the kids could have gotten accepted into a myriad of “decent” schools on their own accord. This mainly appears to be about buying admission to *the best*. USC, UCLA & Georgetown have acceptance rates rate around 17%, Yale is around 7%, while Stanford is at 4% ... plenty of bright & capable students get rejected from these schools.

The whole thing is wrong and highlights the absurdity & crap shoot that is college admissions at highly selective schools.

But I truly feel sorry for these kids who are being vilified & ridiculed for something they had no idea was even happening ...

 

[georgina]

For punishment they should be forced to actually row crew! As a former oarsman, I think it would be a great lesson for them.

They were 'recruited' as coxswains. No rowing for them!

 

[FlightlessDuck]

On a very special Full House...


Michelle: "Dad, dad! I got in to Yale!"

Danny: "Wow, honey, I'm so proud of you!"

Aunt Becky:

 

[Snowflakey]

The news about Lori shocked me only in one way.........for YEARS now I've always said every time I saw her that I didn't trust her - she always plays this soft spoken "good" girl and I'd always say there is something fishy about her. BINGO!!!!!!!!!!

Hope Hallmark Channel has already dropped her butt........bye Felicia

 

[Snowflakey]

Some kids didn't know about their parents involvement. I think Lori Loughlin's kids both did. I think they are the ones who pretended to row crew and posed for pictures on ERG machines in order to get into The University of Spoiled Children. Their dad emailed the pix to their “ contact” and cc’d Loughlin so it ties both parents to the crime.

Yea did you see the news clip of Lori Loughlin's kid saying she was at college for the partying and didn't care about school.

The whole family is a bunch of losers.

 

[RedAngie]

This makes me so angry I have a Senior right now who has been busting her a** to get into College taking an retaking SAT to get higher scores taking AP an honors class and to watch Lori Laughlin daughter sound so ridiculous on YouTube she is taking the place away from someone who worked hard to try an get in.

I am absolutely disgusted by this, and the weird thing is that I'm not even exactly sure why. It seems so underhanded. Maybe it's because my dd is about to start applying to colleges and these people literally stole a college education from another deserving child who worked their *ss off for years and their mommy just bought their way in.

Are such "students" really stealing places from more deserving kids? At a large school like USC with a freshman enrollment goal of say, 3000, there will inevitably be a handful of qualified students who fail to matriculate at the last minute for a variety of reasons. Those who were on a wait list probably already enrolled elsewhere. There is usually room for some warm bodies whose parents are willing to pay full freight.

I have seen many instances where the parents (usually moms) do most of the coursework for the kids. Obviously testing would be an issue since the student usually must test in person, but the moms writing the papers and doing assignments is usually enough to pass even if the test scores are low. Depending on the courses, there may never be any tests since many professors only assign papers.

Back about 6 or 7 years ago, one of the New Jersey Real Housewives admitted writing many of the papers and doing other coursework for her snowflake because the workload was too heavy and interfered with his social life.

 

[bcla]

I’ve said this for some time. Locally, Tulane is not any better than the the big state schools. I’ve always known it to be if you can pay you can go.

Doesn't quite have the name recognition of Yale or Stanford though.

 

[bcla]

The business of being "recruited athletes" only affects the starting roster, not the final roster, and especially not the ability of true student athletes to get scholarships. Prestigious schools that normally have high admissions standards for grades and test scores, but which also have major athletic programs, VERY often have a much lower grade/test score admission requirement if the student is an athlete who is expected to play. The catch is that almost all of these schools will not force a student out of the school for failure to play well enough to start, so this is a way to admit otherwise unqualified students who will then get "cut" from their sport a couple of weeks into their first semester. (I'm not defending this practice, and it is definitely against NCAA rules, but if universities are going to deliberately lower academic admission standards for athletes, this WILL happen. It's a weak spot in the system that they cannot make much of a fuss about, given that they are allowing real athletes to bypass academic standards that regular students have to meet.)

There's still standards relaxed for recruited walk-ons, which is basically where this scandal is based. A lot of these programs mentioned are "country club sports" where there often aren't many scholarship available. And at Ivy League athletic departments there are no scholarships. A coach certainly isn't going to burn up a valuable scholarship for a pay to play situation where the parent has enough money to put in a 6 figure bribe.