College entrance cheating scandal

[Chocolate Cake]

All those kids who got denied into Georgetown or USC or Stanford in the last few weeks must want to punch a wall right about now.

Also, imagine all of the application fees these universities demand in order to apply. Some are as high as $100. So, they have qualified students paying to apply, but they choose students that aren't qualified. I wonder if there will be a class action lawsuit to recoup application fees.

 

[cabanafrau]

Physical/birth parent(s).

What a ridiculous way of expressing it.

 

[Disneylover99]

While some kids didn’t know that their parents cheated, some had to have known. For instance did Laughlin’s daughters not wonder why they needed rowing pics?

My understanding is that her daughters knew what was going on.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

There is also some danger that the billion-dollar industry that is NCAA Division 1 marquee sports could be screwed as well.

You are on the mark with this one. 100% things will be changing soon.

 

[cabanafrau]

Seems odd that mug shots aren't all over the news by now.

 

[luvsJack]

I know this has come up before, but... no need to specify "adoptive parent". Unless it's somehow relevant. Maybe you meant to write "c-section parent or adoptive parent" income?

Just repeating it the way the trainers do.

Since FAFSA deals with all kinds of families, it has to be very clear whose income is used.

Believe it or not, there are real situations for students that make it very confusing whose income they should use. Not every child grows up where it’s clear who their parents are or whose responsible for them.

It’s not implying that an adoptive parent is not a real parent no more than it implies that a step parent is not a real parent. Just distinguishes the different relationships and what does or does not qualify for “parent” in the world of federal financial aid.

Many kids are raised by grandparents. Grandma may have custody or may not. No parent around. Unless grandma adopted the child, her income is not used on the FAFSA. Just like the pp’s example, if they didn’t adopt her, she did the FAFSA correctly.

OTOH, a child may be adopted by grandma but mom or dad are still in the household also. Whose income do they use?

So, you see, for financial aid, it is relevant.

Not even sure what you are trying to imply with that last statement but it’s really unnecessary.

 

[bcla]

Obviously what the parents did is crappy and horrible and illegal. But I'm honestly far more disturbed by what the coaches/admins/test administrators did who knowingly accepted the bribes.
All those kids who got denied into Georgetown or USC or Stanford in the last few weeks must want to punch a wall right about now.

Depends on what was achieved. Arranging for more test time for standardized tests is only going to help a little bit. It might take some of the time pressure off, but it's not going to help to get a perfect SAT score for someone who isn't close. Now having a ringer take a test for the student or "correcting" incorrect answers before submission is another matter.

The real issue and the one that most affects admissions is that they had coaches at these school "tag" admissions for special consideration as recruited student-athletes. They often have the leeway to admit kids who otherwise have no business applying for these schools.

However, there probably aren't that many kids who got in. It's a tiny amount. Unless someone was wait-listed it's not likely that anyone who was denied admission would have otherwise been admitted. And in many cases these are slots that would have been reserved for student-athletes. If anything it would have denied a potential walk-on a spot.

 

[soccerdad72]

All those kids who got denied into Georgetown or USC or Stanford in the last few weeks must want to punch a wall right about now.

This took place over a number of years, so there's really no way of knowing what years' applicants specifically might have been affected.

 

[RangerPooh]

Sadly this is not a surprise. I've spent a number of years working in higher education, questioning what criteria some o my former students were admitted on. True it wasn't an elite university by any means, but we would see high school transcripts and entrance/placement scores and occasionally go "hmmmm". Athletes and non-athletes alike.

I'm kind of hoping that as more people and schools come to light that names are revealed. It is in no way fair that they bought their child's admission into a school, taking a spot away from someone who earned the write to attend. Kudos to everyone (celebrity offsping and everyday people) who legitimately earned their spots.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

"And then when I had children … I always thought, I don’t want to do anything that one day might rear its ugly head and my children have to pay the price for that"--Lori Loughlin


http://www1.cbn.com/700club/actress-lori-loughlin-balancing-family-faith-and-career

 

[DopeyDame]

This took place over a number of years, so there's really no way of knowing what years' applicants specifically might have been affected.

Of course not! And as a PP posted, these small numbers are unlikely to make an actual difference for any rejected or wait listed kid. But are you really telling me that if you had just been rejected you wouldn't be incredibly pissed by this? That if you applied with a 4.0 and stellar SATs and great extracurriculars, and got rejected (which happens all the time at Stanford and Yale and Georgetown) that you wouldn't want to punch a wall, and wouldn't wonder what else about the system was unfair and stacked against you?

 

[DopeyDame]

What's a c-section parent?

Describing the way a child entered a family is an irrelevant and inappropriate description - and it's just as irrelevent to point out that a child was adopted as it is to point out they entered the family via IVF or c-section or via the stork.

 

[cabanafrau]

Describing the way a child entered a family is an irrelevant and inappropriate description - and it's just as irrelevent to point out that a child was adopted as it is to point out they entered the family via IVF or c-section or via the stork.

Don't quite understand the logic of how saying something equally ridiculous solves anything.

 

[bcla]

Of course not! And as a PP posted, these small numbers are unlikely to make an actual difference for any rejected or wait listed kid. But are you really telling me that if you had just been rejected you wouldn't be incredibly pissed by this? That if you applied with a 4.0 and stellar SATs and great extracurriculars, and got rejected (which happens all the time at Stanford and Yale and Georgetown) that you wouldn't want to punch a wall, and wouldn't wonder what else about the system was unfair and stacked against you?

The system is already stacked against most applicants when the children of alumni and the children of donors are given more consideration.

That doesn’t necessarily apply to the public schools implicated in this scandal.

 

[Sanchez]

Of course not! And as a PP posted, these small numbers are unlikely to make an actual difference for any rejected or wait listed kid. But are you really telling me that if you had just been rejected you wouldn't be incredibly pissed by this? That if you applied with a 4.0 and stellar SATs and great extracurriculars, and got rejected (which happens all the time at Stanford and Yale and Georgetown) that you wouldn't want to punch a wall, and wouldn't wonder what else about the system was unfair and stacked against you?

It is absolutely reasonable to be angry and disappointed when learning about this. However, anyone who is familiar with applying to elite private academic institutions already understands (or should understand) that the process is not, and never has been, entirely been based on merit. Anyone who has been through a prospective student tour has heard the "holistic application" speech.

The first issue is that there are so many qualified applicants for so few spots it is impossible to separate many applicants. Sometimes it is just luck or some factor that you cannot predict that is the difference. Duke brags that 75% of high school valedictorians are denied admission.

Second, these schools admit to accepting less qualified students based on circumstances. Many athletes, legacies, children of major donors and underrepresented minorities are given priority. The fairness of this system can be debated but the admission process is not a true meritocracy.

 

[luvsJack]

Describing the way a child entered a family is an irrelevant and inappropriate description - and it's just as irrelevent to point out that a child was adopted as it is to point out they entered the family via IVF or c-section or via the stork.

No reason to get all twisted. It is not meant as an insult to any parent. It is to be clear whose income they use. And for that it is relevant.

I honestly wish you could see some of the completely confusing situations some children grow up in, perhaps you would have some understanding.

“Gramdma adopted me when I was a baby but put me out when I was 17. Now I live with my Mom”. 19 year old student. Still a dependent. Who is the parent?

Not every kid is as privledged as those this thread is about. I was simply telling the pp why the student in her story may do a lot of cheating but on that she was right.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Of course not! And as a PP posted, these small numbers are unlikely to make an actual difference for any rejected or wait listed kid. But are you really telling me that if you had just been rejected you wouldn't be incredibly pissed by this? That if you applied with a 4.0 and stellar SATs and great extracurriculars, and got rejected (which happens all the time at Stanford and Yale and Georgetown) that you wouldn't want to punch a wall, and wouldn't wonder what else about the system was unfair and stacked against you?

Having been through the process both with myself and my kids, I know that if one is even remotely qualified with those types of qualifications, there are many fine universities in many fine locations that they will get into. So no. I'm not pissed about it.

Hopefully the bribe takers and the bribe givers will be punished. USC, UCLA, and Stanford have all fired people involved. Not sure about the others named. But those three fired em the day it came out. I think the academy in Florida has fired the test cheater there.

 

[soccerdad72]

Hopefully the bribe takers and the bribe givers will be punished. USC, UCLA, and Stanford have all fired people involved. Not sure about the others named. But those three fired em the day it came out. I think the academy in Florida has fired the test cheater there.

They tweeted yesterday that he was 'suspended indefinitely' - so sounds like he'll be fired, but administration probably wanted a day or two to discuss it.

 

[cabanafrau]

Depends on what was achieved. Arranging for more test time for standardized tests is only going to help a little bit. It might take some of the time pressure off, but it's not going to help to get a perfect SAT score for someone who isn't close. Now having a ringer take a test for the student or "correcting" incorrect answers before submission is another matter.

The real issue and the one that most affects admissions is that they had coaches at these school "tag" admissions for special consideration as recruited student-athletes. They often have the leeway to admit kids who otherwise have no business applying for these schools.

However, there probably aren't that many kids who got in. It's a tiny amount. Unless someone was wait-listed it's not likely that anyone who was denied admission would have otherwise been admitted. And in many cases these are slots that would have been reserved for student-athletes. If anything it would have denied a potential walk-on a spot.

Some people get annoyed and feel unfairly treated if they're unable to partake in a meal discount for an advertised happy hour special or the like, so much so that they post about their frustrations online. This is seemingly a much more significant situation and it's no harm, no foul, a victimless crime because they can't stand up and specifically name someone in this fraud as the reason they didn't get to attend the school of their choice, one they actually were legitimately qualified to matriculate into?

 

[tex1989]

The article I read says that bribes were also paid to people with the ACT and SAT organizations so that the guy in Florida could submit a test he did with the applicants name on it. Some of the bribes paid were pretty ridiculous. A rowing coach got $400 k. A Tennis Coach nearly the same. I can imagine that they get paid very little (being non revenue sports) and that those kinds of numbers could certainly get them to do things. Paying money to get your kid into USC seems like a waste. (I know i will get bashed for that one)

As others have pointed out the value of an Ivy League Education is not in the education part, it is in the opening of doors, the connections, the possibilities it creates. I am from Texas and the two big schools are University of Texas and Texas A&M. There is tremendous value in degrees from either of those with limitations. If you want to work and live in Texas upon graduation they are the best degrees to have. Move out of state and they carry much less weight. I am sure that is applicable all over the country for certain state schools. Ivy League transends them because it is nationally and internationally valued.

I just laugh as these things happen because they will always happen. The rich will always use there wealth, power and position to their advantage. It has always been this way and nothing I see moving forward will change that. I am just a little happier and a little satisfied today that this has been exposed. It won't mean a thing to any kid that didn't get their school of choice but it at least knocks a little shine off some elites.