This doesn’t sound good (EMH going away?)

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don’t really understand what your asking. My point was how hypocritical it is & how many would cite capitalism when it affects ppl’s access to necessities like healthcare; but when it’s their luxury vacation on the line then it’s corporate greed.

That's really my point though. Can't one be in favor of capitalism for some things and yet not be in favor of it for other things. Within the same company can't one be in favor of some aspects to capitalism and yet not be in favor of another aspect to capitalism.

Does it have to be perceived to be hypocritical when it can just be a multi-aspect opinion on something. I personally rarely interact with people who are so one sided with topics. Most often the people I interact with say something like "I'm for this except in this case". That plays out in various industries, various companies, etc.

 

[LSUmiss]

That's really my point though. Can't one be in favor of capitalism for some things and yet not be in favor of it for other things. Within the same company can't one be in favor of some aspects to capitalism and yet not be in favor of another aspect to capitalism.

Does it have to be perceived to be hypocritical when it can just be a multi-aspect opinion on something. I personally rarely interact with people who are so one sided with topics. Most often the people I interact with say something like "I'm for this except in this case". That plays out in various industries, various companies, etc.

Sure. I meant more hypocritical in that specific aspect...that a company is only greedy if it negatively affects something you (collective) want, but in other cases, it’s just what the market will bear. Irl, I know these type of ppl. Perhaps, it doesn’t apply to anyone on this thread, but it does happen.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Sure. I meant more hypocritical in that specific aspect...that a company is only greedy if it negatively affects something you (collective) want, but in other cases, it’s just what the market will bear. Irl, I know these type of ppl. Perhaps, it doesn’t apply to anyone on this thread, but it does happen.

I think there are people like that of course. I tend to be the consumer that walks away from a product if It makes me feel like a sucker.

 

[luvsJack]

Sure. I meant more hypocritical in that specific aspect...that a company is only greedy if it negatively affects something you (collective) want, but in other cases, it’s just what the market will bear. Irl, I know these type of ppl. Perhaps, it doesn’t apply to anyone on this thread, but it does happen.

Well of course people are more vocal about things that effect them personally. That doesn’t mean they wouldn’t have the same opinion about another company but if that company doesn’t effect them, they just haven’t thought about it. That’s just human nature.

I don’t know if I would call Disney greedy exactly and hey! If they can make a buck on whatever the next thing is, so be it. But that doesn’t mean I don’t get to be frustrated with it or done for awhile at least.

You said in an earlier post that with trade offs, you keep the cost of your trips about the same. I am curious how far back your trips go that have been about the same?

Have you given anything up for that price? Is there a point where you feel that you will be giving up too much to keep it at that price?

 

[mom2rtk]

Do you scrutinize every company that way? What about giant corporations like Proctor & Gamble & Phillip Morris who make the majority of everyday products.

Do you defend every company making that large a margin and continually increasing prices?

 

[LSUmiss]

Do you defend every company making that large a margin and continually increasing prices?

Yes any company who makes provides luxury items.

 

[LSUmiss]

Well of course people are more vocal about things that effect them personally. That doesn’t mean they wouldn’t have the same opinion about another company but if that company doesn’t effect them, they just haven’t thought about it. That’s just human nature.

I don’t know if I would call Disney greedy exactly and hey! If they can make a buck on whatever the next thing is, so be it. But that doesn’t mean I don’t get to be frustrated with it or done for awhile at least.

You said in an earlier post that with trade offs, you keep the cost of your trips about the same. I am curious how far back your trips go that have been about the same?

Have you given anything up for that price? Is there a point where you feel that you will be giving up too much to keep it at that price?

Not currently, but in the past...things like go a day less & do DAH instead. I don’t feel like I’m giving up anything b/c I actually preferred it that way when we tried it. The costs of my trips (multiple times a year in some cases) have hovered around the same price for at least the last 5 years. Times when they have cost more we had splurges or added things we don’t usually do. The travel agent we use has good prices year round, but we might also choose a cheaper time of year to go to save. The TA’s prices don’t change as drastically as the prices through WDW. Sometimes we’ll choose the cheapest resort she has available in the category we like. The cheapest can vary based on their current deals & what resorts are included. Sometimes we’ll drive vs flying if airfare is more expensive.

 

[luvsJack]

Not currently, but in the past...things like go a day less & do DAH instead. I don’t feel like I’m giving up anything b/c I actually preferred it that way when we tried it. The costs of my trips (multiple times a year in some cases) have hovered around the same price for at least the last 5 years. Times when they have cost more we had splurges or added things we don’t usually do. The travel agent we use has good prices year round, but we might also choose a cheaper time of year to go to save. The TA’s prices don’t change as drastically as the prices through WDW. Sometimes we’ll choose the cheapest resort she has available in the category we like. The cheapest can vary based on their current deals & what resorts are included. Sometimes we’ll drive vs flying if airfare is more expensive.

Choosing a cheaper time of year is something a lot of people can only dream about so it’s good that you can do that. So many are stuck in school vacation times.

Because of our work schedules for instance our preference is Thanksgivings week. And we always drive. Seems silly to fly when it’s only like an 8-9 hour drive and soo much cheaper. So with you on that one.

Now, obviously it doesn’t matter to you but here is my take on it and I think that of others: you are willing to give up a day to pay for DAH in MK and that’s your choice and nothing wrong with it. Others are frustrated because they feel they shouldn’t have to give up a day of their trip to pay for something that was free. Or give up the dining plan if that’s what they like or whatever.

I mean honestly a Disney trip can be done much cheaper than a lot of people on this site do it. But just like people have their favorite beach town and resort and things to do in that town, people have particular ways they like to “do Disney” and most do not want to give up those ways. And just like if my favorite place to stay in PCB suddenly deleted some of their services and started charging more, at some point I would have to stop and think “Whoa, why am I still paying to stay here”. Why would I not question the same thing about Disney?

 

[LSUmiss]

Choosing a cheaper time of year is something a lot of people can only dream about so it’s good that you can do that. So many are stuck in school vacation times.

Because of our work schedules for instance our preference is Thanksgivings week. And we always drive. Seems silly to fly when it’s only like an 8-9 hour drive and soo much cheaper. So with you on that one.

Now, obviously it doesn’t matter to you but here is my take on it and I think that of others: you are willing to give up a day to pay for DAH in MK and that’s your choice and nothing wrong with it. Others are frustrated because they feel they shouldn’t have to give up a day of their trip to pay for something that was free. Or give up the dining plan if that’s what they like or whatever.

I mean honestly a Disney trip can be done much cheaper than a lot of people on this site do it. But just like people have their favorite beach town and resort and things to do in that town, people have particular ways they like to “do Disney” and most do not want to give up those ways. And just like if my favorite place to stay in PCB suddenly deleted some of their services and started charging more, at some point I would have to stop and think “Whoa, why am I still paying to stay here”. Why would I not question the same thing about Disney?

I stick to school schedules too. I work in a school district. I meant things like thanksgiving is cheaper than spring break stuff like. This yr through the travel agent, July was cheaper than Oct. we chose July. As for the rest, I agree that’s a personal preference. For me it was like I can get more done & it’s much more enjoyable for us to use DAH than fight the crowds. We stay deluxe so one less day about covers the cost. I get that some ppl look at line items of trips. But like a pp stated, I tend to look at the overall cost & if we did everything we wanted & if we enjoyed it. I think I’d drive myself crazy looking at the “value” of each individual part. And maybe would feel as displeased as some of the ppl on the thread.

 

[luvsJack]

I stick to school schedules too. I work in a school district. I meant things like thanksgiving is cheaper than spring break stuff like. This yr through the travel agent, July was cheaper than Oct. we chose July. As for the rest, I agree that’s a personal preference. For me it was like I can get more done & it’s much more enjoyable for us to use DAH than fight the crowds. We stay deluxe so one less day about covers the cost. I get that some ppl look at line items of trips. But like a pp stated, I tend to look at the overall cost & if we did everything we wanted & if we enjoyed it. I think I’d drive myself crazy looking at the “value” of each individual part. And maybe would feel as displeased as some of the ppl on the thread.

I don’t line item either. What I do is price the trip with the things we like. One way if it’s just me and dh, another with the grandkids. Where we like to stay, places we like to eat, dining plan vs no oop, etc. and plan our days loosely accordingly. Early mornings some days, late nights other days and a day off here and there. And it used to be based on EMH. If I have to look at the final price and start backing things out because of paying for something else (like late nights at MK) then it isn’t the trip we wanted. So at that point would we really be doing everything we wanted?

Additionally, IMO, the loss of EMH doesn’t just take away the value of one thing. It’s the value of the price of the room and the value of the ticket. And those are the biggest parts of the whole trip.

You don’t see a loss in value, nothing wrong about that just two people seeing it different, but could more changes come to make you see a loss? Or would you continue to be willing to switch things up or give things up to keep the cost the same?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Sure. I meant more hypocritical in that specific aspect...that a company is only greedy if it negatively affects something you (collective) want, but in other cases, it’s just what the market will bear. Irl, I know these type of ppl. Perhaps, it doesn’t apply to anyone on this thread, but it does happen.

I guess I could see that you've met people who are like that.

I don't really plan on necessarily staying onsite next time. Disney actually has to work hard to get me onsite again. I have pondered DS hotels like a Hilton-branded one that gets the EMH and 60day FP but I'm not counting on it at all by the time I make it back to Disney. If no perk then it'll be more likely we'll move farther offsite where no parking fees and potentially no resort fees are much more common (especially no parking fee) and split it with Universal resorts (which do still have parking but don't presently have resort fees).

In any case my entire stance has been based on that thoughtprocess of not necessarily being able to utilize EMH even though the one trip I had on site we for sure utilized it and loved it. I guess in my mind I'm thinking about things for the greater good. I'm hopeful Disney continues being profitable, expanding what attractions and shows they have available to people while at the same time concerned that the average park goer will be pushed to a fairly limiting park day for an evergrowing portion of the year as these paid add ons continue to grow and more overt "pay wall" type services and experiences.

 

[cmwade77]

Choosing a cheaper time of year is something a lot of people can only dream about so it’s good that you can do that. So many are stuck in school vacation times.

Because of our work schedules for instance our preference is Thanksgivings week. And we always drive. Seems silly to fly when it’s only like an 8-9 hour drive and soo much cheaper. So with you on that one.

Well, unfortunately there are limited resources (park capacity in this case) and while yes, I think they should have built out park capacity at a far more rapid rate than they have, it is what is until they can get a couple more parks built, but then more people will come at once, which means the capacity still won't be enough.

It is a similar issue to traffic in Southern California, no matter how many freeways get built and widened, they all end up getting fuller.

So, the only other option is to drive at quieter times of the day (not really an option for many of us) or to make the roads more expensive to drive on during the busiest times of the day to get those who really can drive e at other times of the day to do so. Same principle applies to Disney World, the busiest times are going to be made even more expensive to reduce crowd levels. If they were cheaper than they are, you would see parks reaching capacity far more often during the busier times of the year.

So, do I like them increasing prices? No, but I can understand the underlying need to do so and the more I look at it objectively, the more I am coming to realize it has very little, if anything to do with greed and is more about protecting what remains of the guest experience.

 

[SaharanTea]

Well, unfortunately there are limited resources (park capacity in this case) and while yes, I think they should have built out park capacity at a far more rapid rate than they have, it is what is until they can get a couple more parks built, but then more people will come at once, which means the capacity still won't be enough.

It is a similar issue to traffic in Southern California, no matter how many freeways get built and widened, they all end up getting fuller.

So, the only other option is to drive at quieter times of the day (not really an option for many of us) or to make the roads more expensive to drive on during the busiest times of the day to get those who really can drive e at other times of the day to do so. Same principle applies to Disney World, the busiest times are going to be made even more expensive to reduce crowd levels. If they were cheaper than they are, you would see parks reaching capacity far more often during the busier times of the year.

So, do I like them increasing prices? No, but I can understand the underlying need to do so and the more I look at it objectively, the more I am coming to realize it has very little, if anything to do with greed and is more about protecting what remains of the guest experience.

A resort parking fee is protecting my experience at a value resort?

What about staffing cuts? EMH hour cuts? Park hour cuts?

Raising prices can be argued as a way to mitigate crowds. These things can't, and people are, judging by these threads, much more annoyed at them than ticket price increases.

 

[cmwade77]

A resort parking fee is protecting my experience at a value resort?

What about staffing cuts? EMH hour cuts? Park hour cuts?

Raising prices can be argued as a way to mitigate crowds. These things can't, and people are, judging by these threads, much more annoyed at them than ticket price increases.

Emh cuts cuts the value of the product without increasing prices, which has the same net effect. Hour cuts do the same as well, u can honestly say that aside from the hour cuts I haven't seen staffing cuts, if anything I have seen more CMs at any given time than in the past.

Resort parking fees is to try to reduce the number if vehicles on property, reducing traffic around the resort and reducing stress on an already overstressed infrastructure, so yes that is indeed trying to protect the experience. Not the correct method to do so in my opinion, but I can see it from Disneys side.

 

[SaharanTea]

Emh cuts cuts the value of the product without increasing prices, which has the same net effect. Hour cuts do the same as well, u can honestly say that aside from the hour cuts I haven't seen staffing cuts, if anything I have seen more CMs at any given time than in the past.

Resort parking fees is to try to reduce the number if vehicles on property, reducing traffic around the resort and reducing stress on an already overstressed infrastructure, so yes that is indeed trying to protect the experience. Not the correct method to do so in my opinion, but I can see it from Disneys side.

Your argument is that cutting the value of the product AND raising it's price is actually protecting the guest experience?

 

[cmwade77]

Your argument is that cutting the value of the product AND raising it's price is actually protecting the guest experience?

In Disney's mind, yes, as it reduces crowds, without doing these, crowds would be even larger than they are and the parks would end up closing due to capacity.

I still say the right way would have been to keep adding capacity and building new parks to keep crowds manageable levels, but just showing how Disney's mind works.

 

[luvsJack]

In Disney's mind, yes, as it reduces crowds, without doing these, crowds would be even larger than they are and the parks would end up closing due to capacity.

I still say the right way would have been to keep adding capacity and building new parks to keep crowds manageable levels, but just showing how Disney's mind works.

So in your opinion, we should all be happy to pay more and get less because Disney is essentially doing it for us to protect our experience?

 

[whiporee]

I don't know about happy. It's always a choice with this placer, as any other. And if at the end if the day it's not worth it to you, then it's not worth it to you.

I don't think WDW is raising prices to accentuate guest experience -- i think they are raising prices because over time prices rise. I think they've looked at something like parking and thought that's a reasonable revenue stream that's being under-utilized, because most resorts anywhere have some sort of parking fee (And they're still a lot cheaper than most comparable ones). And I think they've cut back on hours because the hours being cut weren't utilized to an efficient level. I think they've made a decision that having Evening EMH at multiple parks at the same time puts excessive strain on resort transportation and staffing costs, and because they are anticipating demand at HS to be very high once SWGE opens, they expect to focus night EMH there as opposed to MK. I think they think offering another morning EMH is a fair trade off. I think they feel that if late night at MK is important to a visitor, then in October they have options available. Just not the night EMH some people desire.

I don't think ANY of this has anything to do with DAH, or making night time park hours a paid event. As I've thought about it, I think it's about emptying one park full of resort guests rather than two, nearly all of whom will be using WDW transportation to get where they are going. And if WDW didn't extend HS hours once SWGE opens, there'd be plenty of complaints about that, too. If I ran Disney and had to choose one, I'd choose DHS for the fall. I understand many think it shouldn't be a choice, that Disney should cater to everyone's expectations by providing what they have in the past as far as services, but at some point choices get made whether they have to be or not. I think this is simply a case of knowing DHS will be a madhouse, and trying to minimize the stress guests feel as they are leaving at midnight or later.

 

[cmwade77]

So in your opinion, we should all be happy to pay more and get less because Disney is essentially doing it for us to protect our experience?

No, I am simply explaining why it isn't sure greed, as I said, it isn't the approach I think is right, but all the bellyaching that it is nothing more than greed needs to stop and we need to be a bit more realistic, as if we understand their reasons and understand it isn't just greed, we can better express why we don't like the changes they are making instead of just saying we think it is nothing more than a money grab. We can also offer up better suggestions they could implement instead that would add value and protect the guest experience.

 

[Planogirl]

I still think all of this is primarily a money grab and no amount of spin changes my mind. Disney charging people more for less is for the benefit of those people? Really?