Resale Restriction

[AKNOTTS66]

Here is the language. I mentioned I doesn’t talk about booking but just different rules in terms of restrictions and making different rules. ETA: I think it is the line about "placing additional prohibitions or limitations on certain Club Members" that some may feel would allow them to adjust booking windows?

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The Part in 4. "or permit such conversions for such Club Members who pay a fee"

Kinda sounds like an upgrade fee to me, what does everyone else thing? An upgrade fee to stay at the other resorts possibly?

 

[Sandisw]

The Part in 4. "or permit such conversions for such Club Members who pay a fee"

Kinda sounds like an upgrade fee to me, what does everyone else thing? An upgrade fee to stay at the other resorts possibly?

Yes, upgrade for a reservation, or maybe if you buy an equal amount of direct points, those RiV points are not restricted any more.

I read it this as they can make whatever they need to down the line to improve sales if they have to.

 

[AKNOTTS66]

Yes, upgrade for a reservation, or maybe if you buy an equal amount of direct points, those RiV points are not restricted any more.

I read it this as they can make whatever they need to down the line to improve sales if they have to.

Or also if the restrictions become a problem down the line create a solution($$$) to fix it lol

 

[ELMC]

Disney will most likely be more loyal and more inclined to keep the Direct owners happier than the very resale owners they are trying to harm in the first place.

Hmmm. Personally I don’t think Disney has any desire to be loyal to anyone, nor do I think they want to keep any owners happy in any way other than operating a well run timeshare property. Now prospects on the other hand, those are the people they want to make happy. Right up until they sign on the line that is dotted.

Idk I guess what I'm saying doesn't make sense. I'm just frustrated that disney started the resale restrictions. Especially on such a nice resort with Riviera. I want to buy there, the Resale restrictions scare me. My biggest fear is you drop $30,000 for Riviera, Booking is fine for 10 years then when the % of Resale owners there can only stay at Riviera it becomes very hard to book.

With all due respect, this shouldn’t be your biggest fear. Your biggest fear should be that you bought something that is instantly devalued by at least 40%, possibly more depending on where prices settle. While I understand that some people are ok with that, given the cost structures and other options for Disney timeshares I simply cannot accept that.

Resale owners, like renters, SSR owners, walkers, etc. are just scapegoats for a supply/demand issue that Disney created. It’s a good talking point for guides to use to move product, “No really, we’re adding these restrictions to look out for you direct owners and to protect your interest!” But the last thing owners should be advocating for are more devaluing restrictions, especially when those restrictions are in the name of solving a problem created by restrictions.

I agree with you about the scapegoats and the spin that salesman put on the resale restrictions. However, I disagree that the last thing owners should be advocating for are more devaluing restrictions. At least not all owners. For those who want to play things straight up, by the book, yeah you’re right. They buy into the timeshare, accept the loss in value, use the heck out of it and are happy. They probably shouldn’t be advocating for any more restrictions, but the fact that they are buying shows they really don’t care. But I care, because I’m not that person. I love DVC and want to continue to own, but I think the cost structures of DVC are out of whack. So I actually want more devaluing resale restrictions so that I can buy devalued resale. I know it sounds predatory, and maybe it is a little. But remember, a lot of these sellers knew going in and didn’t care. So who’s to say they care on the back end?

My buying devalued restricted resale points may very well be a victimless crime. I’m ok with that.

 

[Mumof4mice]

So I actually want more devaluing resale restrictions so that I can buy devalued resale. I know it sounds predatory, and maybe it is a little. But remember, a lot of these sellers knew going in and didn’t care. So who’s to say they care on the back end?

My buying devalued restricted resale points may very well be a victimless crime. I’m ok with that.

Interesting strategy, would be awesome if you could pull it off. Although I suspect at each stage of the devaluation, there will be people willing to pay more than you deem the product is worth.

I was hoping to add some points, after the resale restrictions were introduced - prices continued to rise. An economic downturn is likely the only situation that would drop prices enough to be tempting. However, in a recession, almost everything will be a better bargain than DVC points. So I still can't buy anything!

 

[TinkB278]

Idk I guess what I'm saying doesn't make sense. I'm just frustrated that disney started the resale restrictions. Especially on such a nice resort with Riviera. I want to buy there, the Resale restrictions scare me. My biggest fear is you drop $30,000 for Riviera, Booking is fine for 10 years then when the % of Resale owners there can only stay at Riviera it becomes very hard to book.

I really hate Disney for this. You shouldn't have to worry so much about it, buying DVC should be fun and not this stressful with so many unknowns. The old system was working great.

I was only saying that if you buy Direct you shouldn't have to worry about the resale restrictions causing booking problems for your experience in the future. Just like the old system but that is most likely what might happen down the road.

I feel the exact same as you. I love the riviera. I love the theme, the location, but I just will never buy there because of the restrictions and that makes me sad because I want to buy there and stay there. I will buy resale and stay at one of the original 14 resorts and will save myself the headache of these restrictions and all the potential issues created by resale on the riviera in the future.

 

[Soap_1984]

Why are people still saying this? Did you see January numbers that included just 15 days of the resort being open? Even the critics thought they were pretty darn good.

Now with the virus, sales will tank but before that, sales were far from "not great".

First off I didn't say sales were bad I said they weren't great. Your great month means if they sold that number of points every month, it sells out in over three years. If you take the average so far, it's like 5 years. That's why people are saying this, perhaps my definition of great is different than yours; mine is tied to expectations and disneys own timeline of releasing new resorts and yours is tied to what you want to see. I don't think the execs at dvc would be over the moon if this isn't sold out by 2023 but I could be wrong. I assumed there was a reason they invested millions into the skyliner and this resort and marketing it as a flagship dvc, maybe they define great as just selling it out at all.

 

[Coffee66]

I feel the exact same as you. I love the riviera. I love the theme, the location, but I just will never buy there because of the restrictions and that makes me sad because I want to buy there and stay there. I will buy resale and stay at one of the original 14 resorts and will save myself the headache of these restrictions and all the potential issues created by resale on the riviera in the future.

Disney should stop putting restrictions on its owners and yes buyers.

 

[Sandisw]

Disney should stop putting restrictions on its owners and yes buyers.

It would have been nice if they had kept the product the same, but doing so was to move more buyers direct and away from resale,

They have slowly made changes since 2011 for resale points, with this newest one being the most drastic,

My own opinion..and it is just a guess.. is that down the road they will offer resale buyers with RIV restricted points a chance to purchase an equal amount of direct points and that will change the status of those points to be used elsewhere.

 

[RivShore]

First off I didn't say sales were bad I said they weren't great. Your great month means if they sold that number of points every month, it sells out in over three years. If you take the average so far, it's like 5 years. That's why people are saying this, perhaps my definition of great is different than yours; mine is tied to expectations and disneys own timeline of releasing new resorts and yours is tied to what you want to see. I don't think the execs at dvc would be over the moon if this isn't sold out by 2023 but I could be wrong. I assumed there was a reason they invested millions into the skyliner and this resort and marketing it as a flagship dvc, maybe they define great as just selling it out at all.

I guess it is different definitions for "great".

It's not based on what i want to see but on real numbers.

I was going by the info and people on this thread, who have kept a close eye on sales (and one of whom regularly appears on the DVC podcast).

https://www.disboards.com/threads/r...2019-december-added-1-16-2020.3771338/page-47

 

[ELMC]

Interesting strategy, would be awesome if you could pull it off. Although I suspect at each stage of the devaluation, there will be people willing to pay more than you deem the product is worth.

I was hoping to add some points, after the resale restrictions were introduced - prices continued to rise. An economic downturn is likely the only situation that would drop prices enough to be tempting. However, in a recession, almost everything will be a better bargain than DVC points. So I still can't buy anything!

I agree, there will always be someone willing to pay a bit more. That doesn’t mean that deals cannot be found, and that’s the fun part! I also agree that during a recession hotel deals will far surpass DVC in terms of value. That said, if the recession causes prices to plummet then buying could still be a good long term strategy because of the potential for future appreciation. Happened in 2011-13, but of course that doesn’t mean it will happen again.

 

[Mumof4mice]

I agree, there will always be someone willing to pay a bit more. That doesn’t mean that deals cannot be found, and that’s the fun part! I also agree that during a recession hotel deals will far surpass DVC in terms of value. That said, if the recession causes prices to plummet then buying could still be a good long term strategy because of the potential for future appreciation. Happened in 2011-13, but of course that doesn’t mean it will happen again.

Bargain hunting is certainly a fun sport!

I was referring to boring bargains (cheap land, or stocks for people who understand them) during a recession. We divert all resources to land banking during down turns; best deals from memory were bought around 2010-2011. I'm excited to read that resale prices stayed depressed until 2013, long after property started recovering. If the timing works similarly again...