Should schools just have a "do over" year?

[LSUmiss]

I think there are a lot of parents who would disagree. Our school has moved online relatively smoothly, and in the parents' group there are only a few that have expressed issues or difficulties with the new system. We're working out a few bugs, to be sure, but the kids are adjusting and still getting the work done (so far, anyway - this is only week #2). I'd much rather have this inconvenience now than the longer term hassles of repeating a grade (especially since we send her to private school).

Middle school is hard enough when it is only three years. I don't think the kids would benefit from making it four!

I think that largely depends on the district. I work in an urban, poor socioeconomic district & most of the kids barely have the resources to actively participate in traditional school much less online/remote learning. Our district had provided optional learning opportunities online.
But, I don’t think they should redo the year either.

 

[fly girl]

I’m lucky, our NTI has been going smoothly with a workload that is balanced and teachers available 8am-2pm via chat if needed.

Granted, I only have 1 child without learning disabilities, and as a middle schooler old enough for independent learning. My scenario is a lot easier than most.

Even with that said, I wouldn’t have a do-over. This far into the school year, you can’t turn back. What they are going through is a life lesson in itself that will last them far longer than textbooks and state exams.

However, I could see if you had a kindergartner and felt they weren’t ready to go onto first, talk to the school about a redo.

 

[brockash]

What do you think? Should schools nationwide just call it at this point and reconvene in the fall and have everyone just repeat the grade they are currently in?

I kind of feel like they should. If our schools don't go back, the kids will have missed an entire semester almost. Our last semester only ended 3 weeks ago.

No matter how hard they try, home based learning will never capture the full breadth of what kids would have learned in a classroom environment. Already, it's pretty clear to me (kids in middle and high school) this is not going to work well long term.

The logistics involved make it impossible for families with multiple kids to dedicate the amount of time each kid would need to receive an equal education, and that's not even accounting for parents who need to work from home during all this!

I'm all for a do over. Everyone will be one year older. Kids start school too young nowadays anyway.

Lol...I'm guessing you don't have high school kids? As much as I hate what's happening and the fact that my senior is missing many milestones including most likely his graduation; no in no way do I think there's any way or should be anyway to have all repeat a year.

 

[MrsBooch]

No way - but then again we pay tuition for a private school, which has transitioned seamlessly to virtual learning, and provided additional resources to parents the entire time. I recognize that - and I'm grateful for it and acknowledge it isn't everyone's experience. That being said I think making everyone do this again would be more disruptive to education than the blip of not having school for a few months.

I saw this article today. I live just outside of Philly and I thought this was interesting, I imagine the same can be said for many places around the US - there's no equity in access to virtual learning. So while I don't agree with making everyone have a do-over, I do agree that not everyone is going to be getting the same exposure to learning.


https://whyy.org/articles/philly-sc...truction-during-shutdown-for-equity-concerns/

 

[disykat]

I don't agree with shaming people here being upset about their senior year. It doesn't look good IMO to do that. I'm pretty sure we all know there are things that pale in comparison to being in an active war on the war field.

I don’t know that the original poster meant it that way but it’s a FB “shaming” meme. The intent is to make kids feel guilty about being sad for missing events/rights of passage that matter to them. These kids have a right to feel disappointed and shouldn’t be shamed for it. It’s natural to be bummed about missing something you’ve worked so hard for.

Either I don't see it as shaming, or I feel a little bit of shaming is okay. I see it as adding perspective. I think it's important to remind people it's okay to have the sad/bad feelings and to acknowledge the loss of important life events, but at the same time we need to remember this isn't the end of the world and that we have a proud history of resilience when bad things happen. I have found these memes helpful to remind myself to keep perspective. Of course people need to be able to mourn the losses they are experiencing, but sometimes everyone needs a little perspective beyond their own misery.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

No. My college senior would be ticked!

Just the thought of paying for another semester! (I have two seniors!)

Hey I was thinking for my college kids it would be nice if they just did the semester over. But now they've come up with the kids can either take their online classes for just credit, pass/fail; or for a grade. They have about a month to decide. I'm cool with that .

But my College Senior Daughter who is a nursing major she's not able to get in the hospitals to finish her clinicals and now they are doing simulations. She's a little nervous about gaining the skills she needs to be able to actually pass her boards and be a nurse. I'm thinking majors like that should have to do a do over semester so these kids can get in the hospitals and learn the skills they need.

My daughter is in the exact same boat as yours. Did your daughter work in a hospital? If so, chances are good that she got a lot of skills that will help her become a nurse, some even better than she would've gotten during clinicals. (Trust me.) Passing the boards will likely not be impacted much by loss of clinical hours, either - the difficult coursework she's had for the past four years will help her there. The senior Practicum does help them get ready to practice independently, so it's a shame they couldn't finish, but it's not the end of the world, either. DD managed to get in quite a few of her clinical hours before things ended, but her school is also putting together some clinical video learning (in addition to their classwork) which will be interesting to see. Your daughter's probably is, too. They'll be ok.

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Re the Vietnam War comment. I'm not familar with the shaming aspect of FB but I didn't sense the pp posted it for shaming - just perspective. I also remember that Vietnam period - my older brother had a draft number and ultimately didn't have to go, but some of his friends went, and some didn't come home. My own father found himself at 19 on a boat going to Africa during WWII to drive tanks for the army, and that was tough, having read his memoirs about it.

It doesn't hurt for our young people to hear about those times. But I agree that it's still ok for them to be sad about missing out on all the traditional activities, too - of course. I think part of their reaction is that things happened so suddenly, they really didn't have time to process their feelings about it. One day they were in school as usual and the next day schools were closing for the rest of the year. At least that's how it happened for mine. They were looking forward to being done, but not so abruptly or without winding down the normal course of activities and such. There are worse things in life, but it's still ok for them to process their losses, which I think is sort of what they're doing now.

 

[barkley]

Nope.
March has spring break. April would have had students prepping for then taking standardized tests. May would have had field days, class’s trips, assemblies, and minimal learning.

shows how different things are in different places. granted, both mine have graduated but their high school's schedule is the same as it was when they attended-the 2nd trimester would have ended on 3/6, there would have been a 1 week spring break either this month or next with no field days or class trips for high school students scheduled until the week in between finals and actual graduation (assemblies are scheduled during non academic period and sparingly the last 2 months of school). so the kids in my district got exactly 2/3rds of their academics and the state is saying unless a district can guarantee that all students have equal access to on-line academics it's doesn't count so some are not providing at all (we have areas, mine included, that have spotty and sporadic at best internet).

when i taught a million years ago much of what was taught at the beginning of a school year was review so with younger grades it might not be as big an issue but with older students going from one level of math and not finishing the final 1/3rd it would be an entirely different situation that i envy no one dealing with.

 

[mrodgers]

My kid's district is very rural. Many do not have internet even available let alone have the means to pay for internet. The school itself barely has a website and email or text announcements only came 2 years ago, which many are saying they never got the email asking for a survey of who has internet available and who doesn't. That's still up in the air and the announcement went out a week and a half ago.

Rural as in my kids have a 10 mile ride to school that takes an hour and 15 minutes on near zero traffic roads because it's 3 miles down dirt lanes to pick up a single kid at a farm for about 15 of the kids on the bus.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Either I don't see it as shaming, or I feel a little bit of shaming is okay. I see it as adding perspective. I think it's important to remind people it's okay to have the sad/bad feelings and to acknowledge the loss of important life events, but at the same time we need to remember this isn't the end of the world and that we have a proud history of resilience when bad things happen. I have found these memes helpful to remind myself to keep perspective. Of course people need to be able to mourn the losses they are experiencing, but sometimes everyone needs a little perspective beyond their own misery.

Re the Vietnam War comment. I'm not familar with the shaming aspect of FB but I didn't sense the pp posted it for shaming - just perspective. I also remember that Vietnam period - my older brother had a draft number and ultimately didn't have to go, but some of his friends went, and some didn't come home. My own father found himself at 19 on a boat going to Africa during WWII to drive tanks for the army, and that was tough, having read his memoirs about it.

It doesn't hurt for our young people to hear about those times. But I agree that it's still ok for them to be sad about missing out on all the traditional activities, too - of course. I think part of their reaction is that things happened so suddenly, they really didn't have time to process their feelings about it. One day they were in school as usual and the next day schools were closing for the rest of the year. At least that's how it happened for mine. They were looking forward to being done, but not so abruptly or without winding down the normal course of activities and such. There are worse things in life, but it's still ok for them to process their losses, which I think is sort of what they're doing now.

Maybe I can put it another way.

There's no reason to add perspective, least not in the way it's being discussed.

If you miss going to a concert because it was cancelled do you say to yourself..well let's remember those who died in 9/11 this isn't that bad...Mulan was cancelled and I was supposed to get together with some local DISers. Should we just say "well you know remember the Iraqi War?"

The two (being disappointed with all that has happened with the school year, experiences one would have had if they would have been able to be with their friends and classmates,etc) and the Vietnam War aren't related. It's just a way to make someone feel like they really don't have a reason to be upset because some other event happened somewhere in history that is worse and so on. We could do that to so many events none of us would have reason to vent and you can replace Vietnam war with whatever you want to. It's like a game of onupmanship..let me come up with something that's worse. Putting things into perspective is great. This is just one of those times where it's not warranted to do that IMO in the way being done. Everyone is obviously free to disagree with that

It's not about teaching history. Not at all.

How about just letting the students be upset, sad, whatever and support them through this instead of making it a game of "what's worse" to them so they can be made to feel bad for something that is totally acceptable to feel. Maybe words of encouragment which can be done with adding perspective instead of "here's what's worst than what you're dealing with".

I don't think the poster had ill intentions this is more of just explaining how it's commonly read especially in the format used and on FB.

 

[DisNerdSocal]

I am also a firm no on this. My oldest is a senior, my youngest a freshman. My senior is college bound and taking early start classes in the summer because of his math deficiencies; he also has a learning disability. I do not feel he should be penalized an entire school year for missing less than half a semester over the course of 4 years. Our schools are currently on Spring Break. When they were scheduled to return the first week of April, they would have had a few weeks of instruction, a couple weeks of state testing then finals then graduation.

 

[DisNerdSocal]

Kids are incredibly adaptable, and if our expectations are that they will adapt, most will. Military kids may change schools/districts/states half a dozen times in their lives, often in the middle of a school year. The new school may be on a different schedule and the material may be more advanced or behind the school the kid just came from. Those families make it work, and we can make it work as well.
No way should the year be repeated.

This. A million times this.

My oldest is a senior. He has attended 9 schools. 3 of those were in one school year.

My youngest is a freshman. He has attended 6 schools.

We've started school years late by almost 2 months. We've pulled them out of school a month early on two occasions. They've attended schools overseas and in 4 states. Both of them are well-adjusted, thriving young men. Is the disruption difficult? Absolutely. But it has never stagnated or stunted their ability to learn and adapt.

 

[disykat]

I don't think the poster had ill intentions this is more of just explaining how it's commonly read especially in the format used and on FB.

And we're explaining how WE see it. I do think history has lessons to teach us. No one in this situation is comparing missing a concert to a world catastrophe, i agree that would be ridiculous. This is comparing two world catastrophies. Sadly, all of those seniors and so many others missing once in a lifetime events and opportunities ARE part of a huge historical event.

 

[Frozen Canuck]

In Canada, students are admitted into college and university based on high school grades. It doesn't matter what province you are in or applying to and this is not new.

No, that is not new, but you need to think outside of your own borders. Many students apply to colleges and universities all over the world, who do not follow the same methods for admission. Not having a chunk of a year for things like physics or chemistry or algebra could have a huge impact on later success.

This is somewhat outside of the realm of the question, but our college in Saskatchewan messed up something on my best friend's transcripts. It wasn't until she went to graduate, that they found out she was three credit units short. The error was the fault of the college, so they allowed her to graduate anyway. She was given her degree, allowed to walk, etc. When she graduated, she took a job in Alberta. Because she was short three credit units in classes, even despite the fact that she was given full graduating rights, she was told she could teach in Alberta, but that she would have one year to make up those three missing credits. Getting a pass in one province doesn't necessarily grant you the same rights elsewhere in Canada if you are short the material. What might not matter in one province, state, or country, may have severe ramifications for students applying to other areas.

My sister, in British Columbia, has had her son sent home. She isn't sitting around waiting to see what the schools manage to mess up again (she lives in an area where things have been really bad for awhile now, due to management, etc.). When her son was sent home, she almost immediately started him with an online class for Grade 11 French so he was at least getting official credit units in something and keeping busy. For her, this was a relatively easy task, as due to overcrowding in classes the first half of the school year, some kids were forced to do distance schooling to begin with and he had already taken two classes online that way. Depending upon how long this lasts, it isn't a stretch to think that she will just keep having him work this way to get the credits and knowledge base that he needs.

 

[mekay1012]

No way! We were almost done. We were a week into our last quarter. We were so close to being finished.

 

[mom2rtk]

School starts at different times in different parts of the country, which means many districts are much closer to the finish line. You can't make decisions for the entire country based on your own situation.

 

[Kathryn Merteuil]

Absolutely not.

 

[mom2rtk]

I feel the same way. Terrible disappoints everywhere. I have heard this from my students and young players I have coached: “It”s not fair.” I agree and wish it were not so.

My original questions still stand. I do not think the quote was posted here in an attempt to belittle anyone. I think it was a reminder - we can always use reminders - that our lot in life is not always unique. That others have also had things that may not have been fair come their way.

Isn’t that one of the reasons we study history?

I feel great sympathy for what graduating seniors are missing. I'm so grateful my daughter graduated last year and didn't have to miss all the important milestones so many will likely miss this year.

But I don't think the post was meant to shame people for feeling that way. I think it gives some perspective, and maybe gives a chance to look at one's situation differently.

 

[elphaba91]

In the Southern Hemisphere we may have to. I’m in Australia and our schools haven’t been closed yet; our Prime Minister is literally speaking about it now and explaining that he really doesn’t want kids to miss an entire year. We have only completed one term (and some states aren’t even quite there yet). University placements here are almost entirely determined by your marks in year 12, mainly by your end of year exams; very few courses use subjective criteria like essays, resumes, etc. I can’t see how the year 11 and 12 students will have any choice but to repeat a year.

I wonder if they will have to adjust the school years for the next couple of years to fit more school time into a calendar year until everyone is finally back on track.

 

[siren0119]

Well, obviously it's not a popular opinion.

I got the topic question from my sister, who is a kindergarten teacher. They start in late August and were supposed to go through mid June and she said she wishes she could just have a do over next year with her class, because they still have almost half a year to go and she worries about how much some of them are struggling and she doesn't feel confident that her 34 students can be ready for 1st grade next year with distance learning, since many of her students come from disadvantaged families. It's not easy to deliver reading and math interventions to struggling students virtually.

So, I was thinking mostly along those lines. There are MANY students who don't have access to the tech needed for online learning, don't have supportive or educated or available parents to guide their learning, etc. Sure, the "good students" can get by with online classwork, but a large majority of students nationwide are not proficient in math or language arts, based solely on standardized test scores. Those are the students who really do deserve a do over. Clearly the demographic of the Dis can't really see this issue clearly.

That's funny.
I live in MA and that is how our school year runs (late august/labor day to mid/late June). School was closed last week. I actually pulled the school calendar for this year, and reviewed it for vacation days, standardized testing days and the like.

There were 11 days of "non-teaching" (school vacation, holidays and Professional development days) remaining in the school year before they got out for summer vacation.
The last week of school is traditionally not new material, if not sooner, but I'll be generous and assume they are basically done academically in the last week - 5 additional days of essentially non-teaching

That leaves 56 days of teaching left in the school year.

My kids are not missing "half" of their school year, they are missing around a third of it. Yes it's still a lot and I'd prefer if they didn't lose that academic time, but it's not enough to warrant repeating an entire year. It might mean that review time is replaced by new material at the beginning of next school year, but it's manageable. I posed this question to my three siblings who are teachers in the MA school system, just out of curiousity - they teach at three different schools (one middle school, two at a high school for at-risk youth in an inner city) - ALL of them agreed that repeating the school year was NOT in the best interest of the students or the school system as a whole.

So I'd say that between my experience as a mother of an Elementary and Middle school kid (one with an IEP) and my discussions with multiple professionals in teaching, I have a VERY clear picture of the issue.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

What do you think? Should schools nationwide just call it at this point and reconvene in the fall and have everyone just repeat the grade they are currently in?

Repeat a whole year? Because of 3 months?