Are You...

[BrianL]

I am going out a bit more, but still being cautions. I am wearing a mask and being concious of standing near people and what I touch. I think applying a little common sense will go a long way. The number of cases in my area hasn't been super high, which is amazing based on what I've seen in behavior from others. I am going to take it relatively slow.

 

[jlmarr]

I'm cautious, but not overly cautious (I never sprayed the groceries with bleach). I'll let others go to Disneyland the first day/week/month they reopen. I'd like to see the county numbers go down.

 

[Dan Murphy]

So then you don't want to hear that there are 2 others that @hopemax pointed out for a total of 9? And I think I just found #10

View attachment 497011

I'll go with 9, 10, whatever. IN any case, it's less than 5% of that crowd.

the widespread refusal to wear masks and the reluctance of our leaders to make them truly mandatory. People just don't understand how masks work - mine doesn't protect me, it protects you from me - and this whole concept of "freedom" to take the risk of not wearing a mask is based on that misunderstanding and puts everyone at greater risk. Masks are such a cheap, easy, low-risk measure and we can look around the world and see how much of a difference they make in the trajectory of the outbreak and the pace of reopening. I really don't understand the resistance.

I agree. I don't understand it either, it's such a simple thing to do. I think it has grown do be a political statement now.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

I agree. I don't understand it either, it's such a simple thing to do. I think it has grown do be a political statement now.

Yes, I agree, wearing a mask or not has definitely become a political statement.

 

[tinatark]

62 cases in my county. Mostly back to normal, with more caution.

 

[purplefern]

The main thing I'm very uncomfortable with right now, and the single factor that could change a lot of my perception of risk, is the widespread refusal to wear masks and the reluctance of our leaders to make them truly mandatory. People just don't understand how masks work - mine doesn't protect me, it protects you from me - and this whole concept of "freedom" to take the risk of not wearing a mask is based on that misunderstanding and puts everyone at greater risk. Masks are such a cheap, easy, low-risk measure and we can look around the world and see how much of a difference they make in the trajectory of the outbreak and the pace of reopening. I really don't understand the resistance.

**edited for clarity**
While I may not necessarily agree with them, I'm not all that surprised by people responding so negatively. American culture greatly values personal freedom, it's just the way it is, so when people are told that they can't go somewhere without wearing a mask, or that they have to stay home, they don't react well to it.
If they made masks mandatory, then people would really argue that it's going against their freedom, and they would wear masks less. Americans are contrary by nature, if you try to force them to do something they're going to not do it just because they don't like being told what to do. It's like what America was built on, to a certain extent. That's part of why everyone's so upset about the forced shutdowns to begin with.

Although I will say once again that masks aren't low risk for everyone. People with claustrophobia, people on the spectrum, and people with asthma all find far more difficulties in wearing masks (and I'm sure there are others with conditions I don't know about who fall under this umbrella as well).
(Not a reply to you specifically but a complaint in general: what are these people supposed to do? Stay inside and never leave their houses until masks aren't needed anymore and Covid is gone? Which, to me, DOES seem wrong. People shouldn't be unable to literally leave their house because of something that they can't control.)

 

[LiteBrite]

If they did that, then people would really argue that it's going against their freedom, and they would wear masks less. Americans are contrary by nature, if you try to force them to do something they're going to not do it just because they don't like being told what to do. It's like what America was built on, to a certain extent. That's part of why everyone's so upset about the forced shutdowns to begin with. American culture greatly values personal freedom, it's just the way it is, so when people are told that they can't go somewhere without wearing a mask, or that they have to stay home, they don't react well to it.

I'm dreaming of people choosing to wear masks because they want to do what they can for each other. Not to curtail personal freedoms, but that we would care about each other's well being enough to do this simple thing that could make such a radical difference.

I would also point out once again that masks aren't low risk for everyone. People with claustrophobia, people on the spectrum, and people with asthma all find far more difficulties in wearing masks (and I'm sure there are others with conditions I don't know about who fall under this umbrella as well)

I am fine with the people who really can't wear masks not wearing them. We don't literally need every single person to wear a mask to stop the spread of the virus, we need about 80% of us to wear them. It's all the people who are perfectly able to do so but choose not to that bewilder me.

 

[Searc]

If they did that, then people would really argue that it's going against their freedom, and they would wear masks less. Americans are contrary by nature, if you try to force them to do something they're going to not do it just because they don't like being told what to do. It's like what America was built on, to a certain extent. That's part of why everyone's so upset about the forced shutdowns to begin with. American culture greatly values personal freedom, it's just the way it is, so when people are told that they can't go somewhere without wearing a mask, or that they have to stay home, they don't react well to it.

I would also point out once again that masks aren't low risk for everyone. People with claustrophobia, people on the spectrum, and people with asthma all find far more difficulties in wearing masks (and I'm sure there are others with conditions I don't know about who fall under this umbrella as well).
(Not a reply to you specifically but a complaint in general: what are these people supposed to do? Stay inside and never leave their houses until masks aren't needed anymore and Covid is gone? Yeah, that's not violating freedom at all. )

Got it. So it's ok for people not to wear masks, because according to you, that's violating their freedom. But telling people who are high risk to stay inside because others want to go to the bar, dine out and get a haircut is perfectly fine and not in any way violating their freedom?

BTW, the "violating my freedom" argument is utter stupidity. Wearing a mask in no way violates your constitutional rights and it's a sad commentary on our country's educational system for those that believe it.

 

[purplefern]

Got it. So it's ok for people not to wear masks, because according to you, that's violating their freedom. But telling people who are high risk to stay inside because others want to go to the bar, dine out and get a haircut is perfectly fine and not in any way violating their freedom?

BTW, the "violating my freedom" argument is utter stupidity. Wearing a mask in no way violates your constitutional rights and it's a sad commentary on our country's educational system for those that believe it.

That first paragraph isn't "according to me", I'm just saying what the rational is of the population who DO have the "freedom" argument.
I'm not justifying, I'm just explaining why people think this way.

(Except for people who CAN'T because then that means they CAN'T and that's not their fault. I guess I am justifying for a small group of people.)

**edit**
I've edited my original comment so hopefully my intended meaning is a bit more clear now.

 

[sk!mom]

I’m cautious. Some would probably say overly so. My state is phase 2 now but so few people are wearing masks when I do go out, it makes me go back home. I’d feel more willing if everyone would wear masks.

This weekend, I turned down an invitation to head to St. Pete for a weeklong girl’s trip mid June. I’m not ready to get on a plane and have no desire to be on a possibly crowded beach in a mask. Then last night, a friend revived our Bunco group chat. She wants to get together later this week. I won’t go. That would be 12 people from different families in an enclosed place for several hours. I’m certain that they won’t wear masks. I may come out of this with no friends, if I keep turning things down.

This will be the third month of DH and I saving record amounts. We’ve decided to make that the theme of 2020. Our remaining 2020 travel plans were international so we’ll just stay home, save as much as possible, and regroup when the doctors and scientists deem travel safe. DH changed jobs in March and worked in office one day before working from home for two months. He is back at the office and feels the need to build some relationships and learn over the summer anyway. He’d like to feel much more confident if he has to go back to work from home in the fall/winter.

 

[sk!mom]

That is what I believe mask are doing, making people feel safe, not actually making them safe. I don’t want mask to become our new societal norm.

Scientists and doctors disagree. I’ll continue to listen to them rather than politicians and opinions.

I'm out and about as little as possible. I'm listening to the actual experts and engaging only in low risk activities, and then only as necessary. I wear a mask. I'm under NO illusion that it's keeping me safe. That's not why I wear it. I wear it as a show of respect to OTHER people...to "you" (general you). I'm not "living in fear." If "you" don't wear a mask, it speaks volumes about what you think of other people. I do not get, at all, the refusal to follow the simple safety guidelines suggested by actual experts.

Very well said.
I’m not living in fear. I’m listening to science. Science that has learned that distancing from others and masks are preventative. If everyone would wear masks, I’d be more willing to go out. Since so many won’t, I guess I’ll keep staying home. Those who won’t can carry on at the expense of us all.

 

[Colleen27]

Experts seem very hopeful that they can develop a vaccine for COVID. But I agree if they don't have vaccines for any of the number of corona viruses that are out there why this one?

I am more hopeful that they find a therapy (treatment) more than a vaccine.

Incentives, financial and otherwise. Coronaviruses account for 3 or 4 of the 200ish viruses that can cause what we call the common cold. Would you get a vaccine that could only promise a 2% reduction in your vulnerability to "cold" viruses? Would you pay enough for it to make the investment in research and development worthwhile for the drug company that discovered it? What other, more lucrative or more significant research would that company have to delay to sink resources into making that vaccine? The cold just isn't a serious enough illness, and it has too many causes, to be the focus of vaccine development money or scientific talent.

Without a vaccine, we social distance until the point that the number of cases are reduced such that contact tracing and individual quarantining can again be an effective option. Which is what other successful countries like South Korea and New Zealand are doing.

Except that social and political forces here are likely to make contact tracing and individual quarantine impossible. People won't even sacrifice enough of their "freedom" to put on a mask at the grocery store. How do you think they'll respond to the government implementing a program of house arrest for those who test positive?

**edited for clarity**
While I may not necessarily agree with them, I'm not all that surprised by people responding so negatively. American culture greatly values personal freedom, it's just the way it is, so when people are told that they can't go somewhere without wearing a mask, or that they have to stay home, they don't react well to it.
If they made masks mandatory, then people would really argue that it's going against their freedom, and they would wear masks less. Americans are contrary by nature, if you try to force them to do something they're going to not do it just because they don't like being told what to do. It's like what America was built on, to a certain extent. That's part of why everyone's so upset about the forced shutdowns to begin with.

Although I will say once again that masks aren't low risk for everyone. People with claustrophobia, people on the spectrum, and people with asthma all find far more difficulties in wearing masks (and I'm sure there are others with conditions I don't know about who fall under this umbrella as well).
(Not a reply to you specifically but a complaint in general: what are these people supposed to do? Stay inside and never leave their houses until masks aren't needed anymore and Covid is gone? Which, to me, DOES seem wrong. People shouldn't be unable to literally leave their house because of something that they can't control.)

I'm surprised, I think, because I have a tendency to overestimate the rationality of people as a whole. We had/have a group of people protesting to reopen the economy. We have a simple tool that would allow us to reopen faster and more safely, that is proven in several other countries around the world. I would assume the group that is willing to risk lives to reopen would be the most likely to embrace said tool, just based on simple logic, and I'm flummoxed that they aren't.

As far as those who cannot wear masks, the threshhold I've seen for effectiveness is 80 to 90% compliance depending on which source you look to. So if those who genuinely cannot tolerate masks are the only ones who don't wear them, they're still effective.

But in a larger sense, I do think this virus is going to challenge our notions of fairness and equal access, because the biology of the thing is such that risk isn't evenly distributed and therefore the precautions that are sufficient for one group aren't going to be enough for another. It does feel wrong, and I think it should - that's the only thing, I think, that will keep pushing us toward solutions that work for everyone. In the short term, however, I think some unfairness (particularly in terms of reduced social participation among the elderly and immune compromised) is going to be unavoidable because locking down until we have that solution that works for everyone isn't a viable path.

 

[Colleen27]

As far as why we don’t wear mask as a previous poster ask...the reason is because I do not want wearing mask to become the “new normal”. I do not want to perpetuate the image that wearing them looks “right” or “normal”. I want to perpetuate the image that we are perfectly safe with no mask and I want mask free to look “normal”. I understand people are scared right now. I feel like fear often times causes people to look for ways to alleviate their fear that isn’t based so much on facts but rather on what makes them “feel” safe. That is what I believe mask are doing, making people feel safe, not actually making them safe. I don’t want mask to become our new societal norm.

Except that we do have evidence that masks work. Countries where they are the norm have been much more successful in containing the virus. Japan has ended their state of emergency, never went into lockdown over it, and has had 800-some deaths. And countries where they weren't already part of the culture that embraced them as a short-term solution have been able to reopen faster. Austria saw a 90% drop in new COVID cases when they imposed a ask mandate, and have now reopened malls and schools and churches without a rise in cases. But it only works when most people wear them, because masks don't protect the wearer - they protect the rest of the world from the wearer's respiratory droplets.

As to your other concern about the "new normal", I think there's less than zero chance that face masks are anything other than a short-term measure in the United States. As soon as fear of the virus starts to wane, the security state will reassert itself and places that are currently tolerant of masks will reimpose no-face-coverings norms in pretty short order.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm interested to see information from this--My alma mater is using a grant to study human behaviors and its affect on virus spreads.

From the article I was reading: "The models will take into account human behavior, including public fear, perception of risk and adherence to or defiance of travel bans and quarantine orders.

The first model will incorporate public behavior and perceptions of risk and fear.

The second will look at the demographics within a community, while the third model will use preceding behavior and demographic models to analyze regional-control efforts."

It's designed for future viruses as well as COVID-19. This seems pretty important IMO to incorporate how behaviors affect things. It's one thing to use numbers it's another to apply those numbers to the intricacies of how we are.

 

[JenBush]

I’m definitely washing my hands and using hand sanitizer more than I did before, but I’m ready to get out again.

 

[oceanview2020]

As I read here and similar discussions on other social media, it seems to me that most of the pull back on wearing a mask comes from the attitude received when anyone says they don’t want to wear one or can’t wear one.

Mocking the word freedom or any definition of the word, is only going to raise the ire of most Americans. Freedom is the most important thing we own. And no one wants it infringed upon.

Saying “I wear one because I care” implies that the other person doesn’t care and the mask wearer is morally superior. Not necessarily the case.

When a person states they cannot wear it because they cannot breathe, have a panic attack, feel like they may pass out, etc they get met with “well it’s uncomfortable but we just have to put up with it”. So we need to care more about the slight chance we have the virus than we need to care about someone else that is honestly unable to breathe or can’t buy groceries without a panic attack or is passing out in the floor?

This mask shaming that goes on doesn’t help a thing and just makes a lot of people dig in their heels about it.

Anyone that honestly cannot or does not want to wear a mask can avoid it in most places. Curbside pick up, delivery, etc for shopping. Outside for recreation. Take the family to a park, River, Creek, the beach—anywhere that you can socially distance and will remain outside. All outdoor places do NOT look like the picture you see online.

I realize that some of you may live somewhere that requires you to put it on when you walk out the front door. And of course that’s different but I do have to say, I am glad I don’t t live in one of those places.

 

[georgina]

As I read here and similar discussions on other social media, it seems to me that most of the pull back on wearing a mask comes from the attitude received when anyone says they don’t want to wear one or can’t wear one.

Mocking the word freedom or any definition of the word, is only going to raise the ire of most Americans. Freedom is the most important thing we own. And no one wants it infringed upon.

Saying “I wear one because I care” implies that the other person doesn’t care and the mask wearer is morally superior. Not necessarily the case.

When a person states they cannot wear it because they cannot breathe, have a panic attack, feel like they may pass out, etc they get met with “well it’s uncomfortable but we just have to put up with it”. So we need to care more about the slight chance we have the virus than we need to care about someone else that is honestly unable to breathe or can’t buy groceries without a panic attack or is passing out in the floor?

This mask shaming that goes on doesn’t help a thing and just makes a lot of people dig in their heels about it.

Anyone that honestly cannot or does not want to wear a mask can avoid it in most places. Curbside pick up, delivery, etc for shopping. Outside for recreation. Take the family to a park, River, Creek, the beach—anywhere that you can socially distance and will remain outside. All outdoor places do NOT look like the picture you see online.

I realize that some of you may live somewhere that requires you to put it on when you walk out the front door. And of course that’s different but I do have to say, I am glad I don’t t live in one of those places.

My thoughts about this - while there are some people who can't wear masks, there simply ARE many people not wearing masks that don't care about others. Take a look at some of the things said by people who go out in large groups - one from the big Lake of the Ozarks party said "If you are scared of catching it, stay home". So if masks aren't required at the grocery store where these young people shop, or where they work, they could be spreading it around without knowing, and definitely without caring. I am very glad I live where masks are required inside businesses.

 

[soccerdad72]

We've loosened up a little bit, having cookouts with some neighbors this holiday weekend. And we're back to our gym which opened this weekend. But we're not ready to start going out for meals or to larger public areas (aside from parks and golf courses). As far as restaurants, they just started opening this past week, so we figured we'd wait a few weeks for crowds to get back to usual levels. I'm not a fan of crowded bars and restaurants normally, even less so these days. We are wearing masks when in stores for now, however.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

So then you don't want to hear that there are 2 others that @hopemax pointed out for a total of 9? And I think I just found #10

View attachment 497011

Everyone missed the guy in Thrashers putting vinegar and Old Bay on his fries.

A little of each. I've been following the science, not just the mass media, and I've definitely formed my own hierarchy of risk that might not exactly line up with the economic/political processes that are guiding the reopening, and I'll let that guide my comfort level. So it'll be a while before I dine in at a restaurant or host a dinner party, but I'd be just fine enjoying patio dining if it were to reopen. I'm pretty low-maintenance so salon and spa services are entirely theoretical to me anyway but they'd be about the last thing I'd do right now. I'm good with most outdoor activities, though, and with activities that only involve other people in passing rather than in prolonged face-to-face contact. I'm anxious to get back to road-tripping but not as sure about travel that would involve flying, though with masks required I'd probably do it for the right trip.

The main thing I'm very uncomfortable with right now, and the single factor that could change a lot of my perception of risk, is the widespread refusal to wear masks and the reluctance of our leaders to make them truly mandatory. People just don't understand how masks work - mine doesn't protect me, it protects you from me - and this whole concept of "freedom" to take the risk of not wearing a mask is based on that misunderstanding and puts everyone at greater risk. Masks are such a cheap, easy, low-risk measure and we can look around the world and see how much of a difference they make in the trajectory of the outbreak and the pace of reopening. I really don't understand the resistance.

Your hierarchy of risk sounds pretty well in line with the one I’ve developed myself. Much of my opinion was formed after reading the article below. I encourage anyone who hasn’t yet read it to do so. There’s some good info in there.

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/th...O2nTuWx8hWM3HIpacf3J9zFnh6I7tklUBq2ibW8j6xLDw
*******

I will also happily be the first to admit that my approach to this pandemic is based purely on selfish motivations. I don’t want to die and I don’t want anyone in my family to die. I’m selfish enough that I don’t want any of us to get sick, even mildly. Hell, I’m so selfish I don’t even want to experience just the stress of thinking we may have been exposed to it. I mean, I don’t want anyone else to get sick or die but make no mistake, the precautions I’m taking are because I’m looking out for me and my own.

So what are those precautions? We go almost nowhere — we keep our butts at home 99% of the time. On the rare occasion that we need to go out, we’ll wear masks. We have an N95 and our cloth masks have Hepa filter inserts. Because, again, I’m trying to protect myself from your filthy germs.

And while I’m selfishly trying to keep MY family safe, what happens in the process? Society benefits. There are four fewer people out and about potentially spreading disease. We wear masks that keep our gross droplets to ourselves and away from you. We stand a respectful 6+ feet away from your personal space. Hey, look at that, you can be selfish and be working towards the greater good! You really can have it all. Be selfish. Put on the damn masks, people!

 

[oceanview2020]

My thoughts about this - while there are some people who can't wear masks, there simply ARE many people not wearing masks that don't care about others. Take a look at some of the things said by people who go out in large groups - one from the big Lake of the Ozarks party said "If you are scared of catching it, stay home". So if masks aren't required at the grocery store where these young people shop, or where they work, they could be spreading it around without knowing, and definitely without caring. I am very glad I live where masks are required inside businesses.

Masks are required inside businesses where you are so none of these folks can go in without one. So why worry about it? That’s the thing, a whole lot of people are arguing online about stuff that is not effecting them or the area they live in and it’s just making the “mask war” seem worse than it is.

What happened in that pool couldn’t happen here. All outside activities are limited to, I think 50 people now. It may be more. But nothing like that!

They are required inside businesses here too.