Email From MS re DVC Resorts and new point extensions

[Sandisw]

AUG UY with a bunch of points in Holding. Kept moving reservations out of April to May to June and, finally, July. Just cancelled the July and really hope those prior reservations give me the option to book later. What a horrible mess this has been.

When did you cancel or change the very first reservation? if after Feb 29th, thats a good thing.
I have also read reports that people with holding points prior to this mess were able to get that restriction lifted.

So, fingers crossed, it works out for you!

 

[foreUT]

When did you cancel or change the very first reservation? if after Feb 29th, thats a good thing.
I have also read reports that people with holding points prior to this mess were able to get that restriction lifted.

So, fingers crossed, it works out for you!

Cancelled first reservation in April. My only problem may be some points I had sitting in June for the MM Epcot event (not Holding points.) About 60 points. Ugh. I might have used them in a June reservation. I admit, I moved them around a lot.

 

[CastAStone]

This is good news. Sounds like the borrowing cap of 50% will be around for a while with the extensions. I still think there will be an availability issue come 2021....

The only way to fix that is a banking restriction. Force people to expire points. I don’t know how likely that is.

 

[Sandisw]

Cancelled first reservation in April. My only problem may be some points I had sitting in June for the MM Epcot event (not Holding points.) About 60 points. Ugh. I might have used them in a June reservation. I admit, I moved them around a lot.

It takes a detective to decipher my points activity I change so much! But they know how to dig through it,

IMO, if once had an original reservation during closure, those points should automatically be eligible

I just emailed them because my original trip..June 21st to June 25th...has one day in closure. I used up all but 15 points so hoping since I did have that one day, those will be returned.

Not worried, but I realized I could try!

 

[bobbiwoz]

I think they are still waiving the holding as it didn’t say that had been taken away. Maybe try to chat?

On chat, one CM asked if I wanted her to take care of the holding points! I did. However, the day before I was able to use some of the holding points on a reservation that I will now cancel because FL expects New Jerseyans and some others to self quarantine.

I hope someone will help take those others out of holding for me.

 

[soniam]

On chat, one CM asked if I wanted her to take care of the holding points! I did. However, the day before I was able to use some of the holding points on a reservation that I will now cancel because FL expects New Jerseyans and some others to self quarantine.

I hope someone will help take those others out of holding for me.

Are they still expecting quarantine? You might want to check.

 

[Sandisw]

Are they still expecting quarantine? You might want to check.

Technically, yes. But I am hopeful that with all these Orlando area theme parks opening up and numbers in those states way down, he will end the restrictions before July 7th when it expires.

At least, I am going and need be, my balcony at the Grand will be a great place to enjoy the view...better than my backyard!

 

[New Mouse]

The only way to fix that is a banking restriction. Force people to expire points. I don’t know how likely that is.

The only thing a banking restriction does is move the expiration of points around to a different member who cant get a reservation in the future. Hardly fair to the majority that were not affected. There are not enough accommodations to cover the November expiration of 2018 points and all 2019 and 2020 points will cause a perpetual banking issue. Smart people will bank repeatedly, but at the end of the day someone will be left holding it.

Disney would have to give up developer points for 10 years to make even a minimal dent each year. Their solution is unfortunately not in the best interest of the general membership and you will likely see a lawsuit.

 

[Sandisw]

The only thing a banking restriction does is move the expiration of points around to a different member who cant get a reservation in the future. Hardly fair to the majority that were not affected. There are not enough accommodations to cover the November expiration of 2018 points and all 2019 and 2020 points will cause a perpetual banking issue. Smart people will bank repeatedly, but at the end of the day someone will be left holding it.

Disney would have to give up developer points for 10 years to make even a minimal dent each year. Their solution is unfortunately not in the best interest of the general membership and you will likely see a lawsuit.

How? What terms have they violated?

 

[New Mouse]

How? What terms have they violated?

There are now more points than there are accommodations. At some point an owners points will be worthless because of this.

 

[Sandisw]

There are now more points than there are accommodations. At some point an owners points will be worthless because of this.

Yes, true, But, with the closure, their job is to minimize it as best they can, They have done that with the borrowing rule so far,

They didn’t extend the points they own, and I have a gut feeling all these 2018 extended points,.because an owner has to call in.,,,could very well be coming from the developers points used for cash stays and not an actual owners points,.,speculation, of course, but it’s possible.

As long as there is something to book with ones points during that UY..doesnt have to be the exact room size or date the owner wants,,.they haven’t violated the nature of a first come, first serve program,

The POS actually allows when a resort is closed to let owners use those points at an open resort on a more than one to one ratio of points to rooms...so there is legally wiggle room for this,

Personally, based on the contract, I think it’d be hard for any lawsuit to be successful when so far, they haven’t violated the terms of the contract.

 

[New Mouse]

Yes, true, But, with the closure, their job is to minimize it as best they can, They have done that with the borrowing rule so far,

They didn’t extend the points they own, and I have a gut feeling all these 2018 extended points,.because an owner has to call in.,,,could very well be coming from the developers points used for cash stays and not an actual owners points,.,speculation, of course, but it’s possible.

As long as there is something to book with ones points during that UY..doesnt have to be the exact room size or date the owner wants,,.they haven’t violated the nature of a first come, first serve program,

The POS actually allows when a resort is closed to let owners use those points at an open resort on a more than one to one ratio of points to rooms...so there is legally wiggle room for this,

Personally, based on the contract, I think it’d be hard for any lawsuit to be successful when so far, they haven’t violated the terms of the contract.

The math doesnt add up unless there are a lot more developer points out there. This is akin to kicking the can repeatedly down the road. If every single room were booked, basic math would say there are going to be thousands of points that either expire or get banked. At some point that cant happen anymore and the only way to do it is disney kicking in rooms at some point.

 

[Sandisw]

The math doesnt add up unless there are a lot more developer points out there. This is akin to kicking the can repeatedly down the road. If every single room were booked, basic math would say there are going to be thousands of points that either expire or get banked. At some point that cant happen anymore and the only way to do it is disney kicking in rooms at some point.

In my reading of the contract, there is nothing to guarantee that if the resort is closed due to a force majuere that owners won’t lose points from the closure at some point.

I have read where timeshare owners with annual weeks are out of luck,

12 to 13 weeks of lost rooms means points will be lost for some owners. DVD owns a good amount of points and every year enough DVC inventory gets sold for cash as breakage as we always get the maximum. I am going to bet that is kept for DVC.

We will have to wait and see but IMO, I think they have done the best they can legally to reduce the loss of points.

 

[CastAStone]

The math doesnt add up unless there are a lot more developer points out there. This is akin to kicking the can repeatedly down the road. If every single room were booked, basic math would say there are going to be thousands of points that either expire or get banked. At some point that cant happen anymore and the only way to do it is disney kicking in rooms at some point.

Disney isn’t the owner. They aren’t accountable for making you whole because an externality closed the resorts.

DVC owners own the rights to those rooms and the only solutions that are “fair” are the ones that hurt all owners equally in proportion to their ownership stake, or rule changes that apply to all AND come will the sufficient notice (e.g. saying now that 2022 points are completely unbankable).

Anything Disney does above and beyond that is exemplary customer service.

 

[New Mouse]

Disney isn’t the owner. They aren’t accountable for making you whole because an externality closed the resorts.

DVC owners own the rights to those rooms and the only solutions that are “fair” are the ones that hurt all owners equally in proportion to their ownership stake, or rule changes that apply to all AND come will the sufficient notice (e.g. saying now that 2022 points are completely unbankable).

Anything Disney does above and beyond that is exemplary customer service.

This doesnt hurt owners equally.

 

[CastAStone]

This doesnt hurt owners equally.

It gives them all the same shot to avoid getting hurt.

The fairest solution is to dock every owner 25% of their next UY points.

 

[Sandisw]

It gives them all the same shot to avoid getting hurt.

The fairest solution is to dock every owner 25% of their next UY points.

Which, of course, would not be legal. As you say, nothing will affect all owners exactly the same way, but spreading out the pain as best you can is all we can hope for,

For example, If one goes on right now, between June 22nd and November 30th, there are rooms available so every person with extended 2018 points COULD book something tonight with those points. The fact that what is there may not be what someone wants and the dates may not work, doesn’t change the fact that rooms are there to match with points out there,

 

[mentos]

The fairest solution is to dock every owner 25% of their next UY points.

But many of us select UYs and strategically book at the beginning to account for interruptions, there are yet others on the other end of the risk spectrum who rely on discretionary rules (borrowing/banking) to turn a 50pt contract to a 150pt stay every 3yrs, and perhaps book in the final 3 months of a UY (I’ve done this).

Both are priced appropriately up front in terms of cost and risk, so to equally penalize a whole spectrum of variable risk decisions isn’t a fair solution, IMO.

 

[New Mouse]

Which, of course, would not be legal. As you say, nothing will affect all owners exactly the same way, but spreading out the pain as best you can is all we can hope for,

For example, If one goes on right now, between June 22nd and November 30th, there are rooms available so every person with extended 2018 points COULD book something tonight with those points. The fact that what is there may not be what someone wants and the dates may not work, doesn’t change the fact that rooms are there to match with points out there,

Theres stuff there because the 2018 points from today arent available to book with for at least another few weeks.

 

[New Mouse]

It gives them all the same shot to avoid getting hurt.

The fairest solution is to dock every owner 25% of their next UY points.

So how is it fair if you get your points back for booking now and I lose my points when I wasnt even booked now?

The answer is its not and they are trying to appease the loudest people rather than the membership as a whole which is their responsibility.