Is it okay to put family first? (Response to royal family stuff)

[cabanafrau]

I gave birth to a stillborn baby. I remember being numb and a bit shocked...trying to take it all in. It was all a blur. I felt pain and emptiness with bouts of belly crying. I would've never use the language MM did to describe my experience. Perhaps she took notes.

Maybe with that rogue crayon she picked up.

 

[Cheburashka]

You seem to know the royals personally, believing what you hear about Meghan is no different than me believing William might have cheated....

Actually this information has been reported by multiple sources, including the "close friends of the couple", who "helped" Harry & Meghan's Finding Freedom book be written.

 

[rigs32]

I gave birth to a stillborn baby. I remember being numb and a bit shocked...trying to take it all in. It was all a blur. I felt pain and emptiness with bouts of belly crying. I would've never use the language MM did to describe my experience. Perhaps she took notes.

Wow. I get it. You dislike her very strongly. But.... to trauma shame someone is just too far, imo.

 

[donaldbuzz&minnie]

The other thing that has just occurred to me is that as I said Charles has been brought upto be King. And so has William. For William though I do wonder if there had always been the thought that his brother would be there almost by his side, as one of his chief supporters during his reign. And I don't mean that Harry would be telling William what to do or guiding him per se. More that William would have been able to use Harry as a sounding board. As brothers, particularly ones that were so close and had such a bond over losing their mother so young, I could imagine that could have been a vital role in Williams tenure at the helm. And now he most likely won't be. Not at all what Diana would have wanted for her boys I should imagine.

I suspect, although of course it's just a guess, that being a royal "spare" in the "heir and the spare" thing isn't all unicorns and rainbows once you grow up. William and Harry were treated more equally as brothers and princes when they were children. They were second and third in line for the throne respectively, with just Prince Charles above them both. As men, however, with families of their own, Harry was quickly displaced from being 3rd in line for the throne to way down the pecking order. His children would automatically be much farther down than he was, no matter what titles they might have been given.

Family relationships in a royal family would have to feel a little distorted, no matter how "normal" you'd like them to be. If Harry were to stay in the royal family he would someday have to accept that his brother wasn't just his brother. He would be his boss, while Harry would become a fairly unimportant royal. Harry would only have to look at the life of Princess Margaret to get a glimpse of what it might be like to fall to the edges of the royal family. It would be a lifetime of being a career subordinate to his own brother, always having to ask his brother-boss for specific jobs, favors and permission. How many of us would welcome that position, no matter what perks came with the position?

Maybe Harry and Meghan just decided to face reality and make a clean break of it when they were still young enough to have the energy to start new independent lives. I have to say that I am rooting for their happiness. I'd like to hope that someday William and Harry might even benefit from the mutual support that comes from just being loving brothers.

 

[person]

I suspect, although of course it's just a guess, that being a royal "spare" in the "heir and the spare" thing isn't all unicorns and rainbows once you grow up. William and Harry were treated more equally as brothers and princes when they were children. They were second and third in line for the throne respectively, with just Prince Charles above them both. As men, however, with families of their own, Harry was quickly displaced from being 3rd in line for the throne to way down the pecking order. His children would automatically be much farther down than he was, no matter what titles they might have been given.

Family relationships in a royal family would have to feel a little distorted, no matter how "normal" you'd like them to be. If Harry were to stay in the royal family he would someday have to accept that his brother wasn't just his brother. He would be his boss, while Harry would become a fairly unimportant royal. Harry would only have to look at the life of Princess Margaret to get a glimpse of what it might be like to fall to the edges of the royal family. It would be a lifetime of being a career subordinate to his own brother, always having to ask his brother-boss for specific jobs, favors and permission. How many of us would welcome that position, no matter what perks came with the position?

Maybe Harry and Meghan just decided to face reality and make a clean break of it when they were still young enough to have the energy to start new independent lives. I have to say that I am rooting for their happiness. I'd like to hope that someday William and Harry might even benefit from the mutual support that comes from just being loving brothers.

Conversely, imagine what it was like for George VI, the former Duke of York and younger brother of the hitherto wildly popular Edward, Prince of Wales and subsequently Edward VIII, thrust within a few days from relative obscurity into the furnace of monarchical responsibility after not only the Archbishop of Canterbury's expressed qualms about the raciness surrounding Mrs. Simpson but also after a series of unappetizing secret reports from the security services to the government about fears of channels of communication with Nazi Germany, fears which remained for several years longer, some details of which are still officially required to remain buried in archives.

In systems based on constitutional monarchy, there are thus instances when issues loom larger larger than the private feelings of individuals.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Wow. I get it. You dislike her very strongly. But.... to trauma shame someone is just too far, imo.

How did I shame her?

 

[jump00]

I suspect, although of course it's just a guess, that being a royal "spare" in the "heir and the spare" thing isn't all unicorns and rainbows once you grow up. William and Harry were treated more equally as brothers and princes when they were children. They were second and third in line for the throne respectively, with just Prince Charles above them both. As men, however, with families of their own, Harry was quickly displaced from being 3rd in line for the throne to way down the pecking order. His children would automatically be much farther down than he was, no matter what titles they might have been given.

Family relationships in a royal family would have to feel a little distorted, no matter how "normal" you'd like them to be. If Harry were to stay in the royal family he would someday have to accept that his brother wasn't just his brother. He would be his boss, while Harry would become a fairly unimportant royal. Harry would only have to look at the life of Princess Margaret to get a glimpse of what it might be like to fall to the edges of the royal family. It would be a lifetime of being a career subordinate to his own brother, always having to ask his brother-bossfor specific jobs, favors and permission. How many of us would welcome that position, no matter what perks came with the position?

Maybe Harry and Meghan just decided to face reality and make a clean break of it when they were still young enough to have the energy to start new independent lives. I have to say that I am rooting for their happiness. I'd like to hope that someday William and Harry might even benefit from the mutual support that comes from just being loving brothers.

Well said!!!!

 

[Karin1984]

I suspect, although of course it's just a guess, that being a royal "spare" in the "heir and the spare" thing isn't all unicorns and rainbows once you grow up. William and Harry were treated more equally as brothers and princes when they were children. They were second and third in line for the throne respectively, with just Prince Charles above them both. As men, however, with families of their own, Harry was quickly displaced from being 3rd in line for the throne to way down the pecking order. His children would automatically be much farther down than he was, no matter what titles they might have been given.

Family relationships in a royal family would have to feel a little distorted, no matter how "normal" you'd like them to be. If Harry were to stay in the royal family he would someday have to accept that his brother wasn't just his brother. He would be his boss, while Harry would become a fairly unimportant royal. Harry would only have to look at the life of Princess Margaret to get a glimpse of what it might be like to fall to the edges of the royal family. It would be a lifetime of being a career subordinate to his own brother, always having to ask his brother-boss for specific jobs, favors and permission. How many of us would welcome that position, no matter what perks came with the position?

Maybe Harry and Meghan just decided to face reality and make a clean break of it when they were still young enough to have the energy to start new independent lives. I have to say that I am rooting for their happiness. I'd like to hope that someday William and Harry might even benefit from the mutual support that comes from just being loving brothers.

There are some articles which claimed that at least the Queen Mother did make a clear distinction between heir and spare. And it is already happening with George. On at least two occasions in the last few years he is already singled out from his siblings and has more time with the Queen.

Harry himself said that he knows his time is limited, as soon as George, Charlotte and Louis are reaching their teen years he will start fading into the background.

It is a very undesirable position for sure, but in most cases in European royal families the spares seem to do okay. Same for Charles' siblings. They must have had fights over it. Charles is for decades described as weak and unfit, while Anne is considered more suitable. That must have influenced family dynamics. But in the end, the spare can make it work, in more cases than not.

In February 2020 right after Megxit was announced I was in London and saw the new musical based on the movie the Prince of Egypt. It was a good show, but with Megxit in mind this story of two brothers got a whole new meaning. Especially because they made Rameses less evil from his animation counterpart.

I think Moses' I Want-song probably desribes very well how Harry must be feeling. For those who do not want to listen, it is set at the beginning, right after the scène where the brothers are reprimanded by their father for chariot raving through the city and damaging a temple. Their father tells Moses that he knows that being the spare is not easy.
The song starts with Moses realizing that he has a lot more freedom than his brother and will never know the burden of the crown. He knows that he will be 'footprints on the sand' destined to fade away. However he wants to make a difference and leave his imprint on the world.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I can see where the family dynamics could put additional stress on the brothers. Although this happens in many families in some shape or form. I think William as the future King has had more pressure. He has to be perfect while Harry gets to have bit more fun. While William was singled out in order to learn his role...Harry got to have more of a grandparent/grandchild relationship. It is said he is a favorite. It's the reason he has been overindulged by the Queen.

I don't think anyone faults Harry for wanting privacy. H&M say this is their desire although actions speak louder than words. And add the nasty digs towards the royal family. And it not just Harry's family . .it's MM's family and /or any friend that doesn't fall in line. I really don't think it's everyone else. Just my thoughts.

 

[ronandannette]

I can see where the family dynamics could put additional stress on the brothers. Although this happens in many families in some shape or form. I think William as the future King has had more pressure. He has to be perfect while Harry gets to have bit more fun. While William was singled out in order to learn his role...Harry got to have more of a grandparent/grandchild relationship. It is said he is a favorite. It's the reason he has been overindulged by the Queen.

I don't think anyone faults Harry for wanting privacy. H&M say this is their desire although actions speak louder than words. And add the nasty digs towards the royal family. And it not just Harry's family . .it's MM's family and /or any friend that doesn't fall in line. I really don't think it's everyone else. Just my thoughts.

The same thing has been said about Andrew and we all just assume it’s true but really we know nothing. I can’t help remembering those awful scenes in the most recent season of The Crown where the Queen shared a meal privately with each of her children. The portrayals were all very unflattering and made each of them seem a little loathsome but yet must have been 100% flights-of-fancy. There’s no way anyone could possibly know the true nature of such private interactions.

 

[snappy]

I can see where the family dynamics could put additional stress on the brothers. Although this happens in many families in some shape or form. I think William as the future King has had more pressure. He has to be perfect while Harry gets to have bit more fun. While William was singled out in order to learn his role...Harry got to have more of a grandparent/grandchild relationship. It is said he is a favorite. It's the reason he has been overindulged by the Queen.

I don't think anyone faults Harry for wanting privacy. H&M say this is their desire although actions speak louder than words. And add the nasty digs towards the royal family. And it not just Harry's family . .it's MM's family and /or any friend that doesn't fall in line. I really don't think it's everyone else. Just my thoughts.

I tend to agree. The thing that sticks out to me is the mixed message from H&M about privacy and then going big with a book and Oprah. Headlines do not really seem to be a problem for them as long as they are cast in a complimentary light.

 

[Suger Mag]

I tend to agree. The thing that sticks out to me is the mixed message from H&M about privacy and then going big with a book and Oprah. Headlines do not really seem to be a problem for them as long as they are cast in a complimentary light.

LOL... my favorite headlines are the ones that are uncomplimentary... those are the ones I seek out (not)

umm...who doesn't like complimentary stuff?

 

[TLSnell1981]

LOL... my favorite headlines are the ones that are uncomplimentary... those are the ones I seek out (not)

umm...who doesn't like complimentary stuff?

You can’t pick and choose when you put yourself out there in that fashion. Unfortunately H&M’s MO is to play the victim and blame others. They never learn. The end result is damaging all around. It’s really sad. These folks have it all but continue to drag others down so they can rise.

 

[okeydokey]

Wow, I am speechless here. I can't imagine hating someone so much, and you don't even know them personally. Talk about poison hearts. The lack of empathy here is just shameful. I feel sorry for you.

 

[Adelle Dazeem]

Wow, I am speechless here. I can't imagine hating someone so much, and you don't even know them personally. Talk about poison hearts. The lack of empathy here is just shameful. I feel sorry for you.

Who here has said they hate anyone? People are allowed to have opinions about public figures. I don't need anyone to feel sorry for me and my "poison heart", but thanks! LOL

 

[Karin1984]

Wow, I am speechless here. I can't imagine hating someone so much, and you don't even know them personally. Talk about poison hearts. The lack of empathy here is just shameful. I feel sorry for you.

Then I wouldn't read the comment sections of the online tabloids. We are reasonably kind here.

I am sure that if political views were allowed on the site, we would have seen similar quotes for certain politicians and their wives in the last few years.
The good thing about a royal family is that they are above politics, so I guess, that rule doesn't apply, and we can talk freely about them. Celebrities are always free game for people to have opinions on.

That's why with how Meghan objects with how she is portrayed in the media and the dirt the British press has dug up about her past relationships, I wonder if she truly wants to get into US politics. Playing dirty and mudslinging is much worse in US politics, than the tabloids are in the UK.
(If Meghan does get into politics, we cannot talk about her here anymore, ;-) )

 

[Cheburashka]

How many of us would welcome that position, no matter what perks came with the position?

I would absolutely welcome being 6th in line to the throne in the British royal family, in a heartbeat, with all of the perks that come with that position, in exchange for the hardscrabble life of childhood neglect and the challenges of being the single mother of an autistic child on a schoolteacher's salary. Many, many people would choose a life of security for themselves and their loved ones, yes, they would.

Did you honestly & sincerely reflect on your own question? Most people would love to have the wealth, security, privileges and adulation that they take for granted.

 

[Suger Mag]

You can’t pick and choose when you put yourself out there in that fashion. Unfortunately H&M’s MO is to play the victim and blame others. They never learn. The end result is damaging all around. It’s really sad. These folks have it all but continue to drag others down so they can rise.

that is how you see it...

I see a nice young couple with their whole lives ahead of them... filled with so much potential. One beautiful baby on the way.... another child already blessing their home. Like I tell my smart and beautiful daughter... you use all the blessings you are so lucky to have.... take your opportunities and run with it.

You have one life, how you choose to live it.... is your decision alone.

I personally wish them all the happiness together... In America... In the UK wherever.

 

[Suger Mag]

I would absolutely welcome being 6th in line to the throne in the British royal family, in a heartbeat, with all of the perks that come with that position. Did you honestly reflect on your own question? Most people would love to have the wealth, security, privileges and adulation that they take for granted.

I think that is what fuels a lot of the angry or anti sentiment against these two (MM and H).

So many people would change places with them in a heartbeat, so they cannot understand how they would choose to walk away from being a royal.

to quote one of my favorites....

""You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view. Until you climb inside of his skin and walk around in it." Atticus Finch, To Kill a Mockingbird

None of us are them... living the day to day. We can only sit on the outside... reading stories, and making assumptions.

 

[Cheburashka]

So many people would change places with them in a heartbeat, so they cannot understand how they would choose to walk away from being a royal.

Walking away is one thing. But walking away in such a publicly self-pitying and blaming fashion, given their lives of extreme privilege, is morally abhorrent. They gave a self-pitying interview during their official tour of South Africa, a place where a large percent of the population doesn't even have decent housing, and also used that tour to declare a lawsuit they were beginning against a media outlet.

In addition, their subsequent $100 million deal with Netflix in exchange for starring in a reality show indicates that a need for privacy was not their motivator, rather, it was greed, the desire to have even more money (which they only got due to their royal connections), than they could ever have if they had remained in the royal family.