Alec Baldwin shoots/kills cinematographer and injured director after firing a "prop gun".

[bcla]

Well, yes. Any time you wield a weapon your are responsible. We learned this at a very early age (in my family) ANY gun is potentially a deadly weapon. Safety protocols must always be followed and it only takes a minute to verify if it's loaded. If mean...finger off the trigger, never point at anyone or their direction just to name a couple of safety measures.

Whether or not one is incarcerated depends on the circumstances, charges, the prosecutor, judge and jury. There is also a moral responsibility. No matter what...Baldwin will have to live with this for the rest of his days.

It was a movie set. Again, someone is hired to be the "expert" who does all the safety checks and makes sure that people won't get injured.

The "safety measures" that you mention simply don't apply to film and TV. They are literally portraying people shooting guns at each other. It would certainly be impossible to make a western, police drama, or war movie without guns being pointed at each other, because that's what's done in a gunfight.

Still - we're still getting a lot of new information on what happened, and it's coming out gradually.

 

[TLSnell1981]

It was a movie set. Again, someone is hired to be the "expert" who does all the safety checks and makes sure that people won't get injured.

The "safety measures" that you mention simply don't apply to film and TV. They are literally portraying people shooting guns at each other. It would certainly be impossible to make a western, police drama, or war movie without guns being pointed at each other, because that's what's done in a gunfight.

Still - we're still getting a lot of new information on what happened, and it's coming out gradually.

It is still a REAL weapon even if it on a movie set. There are many questions surrounding the competence of the person hired...even her own concerns. There were other occurrences with gun safety on this film. Look, it's my opinion. We were raised to respect guns and accept the consequences. You can kill another living creature while handling a gun. It is an incredible responsibility.

As for guns being pointed at one another... not hard to verify a gun doesn't contain live rounds of ammo. Technology today...not sure a real weapon has to even be used or fired on a movie set. Sorry but too many things went wrong and a young woman is dead.

 

[anniemae]

I still don't understand why real guns need to be used in movies at all. If prop departments are capable of making everything from sci-fi spaceships to alien worlds look "real" they can certainly make a completely fake gun look real.

I have also thought this same thing. It's amazing what they can do and create for movies. You would think someone would have a way to make a fake gun seem real. They should not be using real guns with real bullets, or guns with blanks since somehow the blanks can apparently kill people too. Its absurd to me.

 

[leeniewdw]

Whether it's right or wrong, movie sets aren't real life, and actors on set aren't people. They are basically props as well. They have people taking care of everything for them. People tell them what to do, say, wear, and everything else. They execute it. Actors rely on people to tell, particularly during stunts, whether things are safe or how it should be done. That's how a movie set works, most of the time.

The movies we watch on TV or in the theater aren't real life. The creation of those movies are very much real life...and death

I have also thought this same thing. It's amazing what they can do and create for movies. You would think someone would have a way to make a fake gun seem real. They should not be using real guns with real bullets, or guns with blanks since somehow the blanks can apparently kill people too. Its absurd to me.

Completely agree. It's mind boggling that real guns and real ammo would be ever be on the set.

 

[JimMIA]

Not really. They had the same armorer throughout the production. She didn't walk off the set. Also - the weapon fired was a single-action Colt, so likely either a Colt Army or Colt Navy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...armorer-24-charge-guns-Alec-Baldwin-film.html​

The gun that fired the fatal shot was a vintage-style Colt revolver, DailyMail.com has exclusively learned.​

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After the shooting, the armorer took possession of the gun and a spent casing, which were turned over to police, along with other prop guns and ammunition used on the set.​

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Baldwin also changed out of the Western costume he was wearing, which was stained with blood, and turned it over to police.​

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The warrant does not reveal the model or caliber of the prop gun that fired the fatal bullet, but the film is set in the Old West of the 1880s and DailyMail.com has learned it was a Colt.​

Yes, a Colt Army or Navy revolver from the 1850's would certainly fit the period of the movie.

But unlike a pistol, bullets in the cylinder of a revolver would be plainly visible...which makes this "mistake" even more egregious.

 

[BrianL]

I do not blame Alec for firing the gun, though he does bear responsibility as one of the producers on set, especially if there had been some previously noted safety issues. I think the brunt of it though is on the prop handlers who made this mistake. This is such a tragic accident though all around. Honestly, I can't believe Hollywood even uses weapons capable of actually firing.

 

[JimMIA]

I do not blame Alec for firing the gun, though he does bear responsibility as one of the producers on set, especially if there had been some previously noted safety issues. I think the brunt of it though is on the prop handlers who made this mistake. This is such a tragic accident though all around. Honestly, I can't believe Hollywood even uses weapons capable of actually firing.

Yeah, I can see using real guns on the set, but why in the world would they have real bullets? That just makes no sense at all.

 

[Wesley815]

Yeah, I can see using real guns on the set, but why in the world would they have real bullets? That just makes no sense at all.

This is what I'm looking forward to learning in the investigation, why in the world was the gun loaded with a real bullet and then handed to Alec to fire at camera? Something doesn't add up. I hope they dig deep into the prop/armorer person's history as well.

Yes blanks can cause harm too- but this was a real bullet plain and simple.

https://www.tmz.com/2021/10/23/alec-baldwin-rust-gun-accident-armorer-head-handler/

 

[dvcgirl67]

Yeah, I can see using real guns on the set, but why in the world would they have real bullets? That just makes no sense at all.

Is that what is being reported now? That there were actually real bullets in the gun? I'm seeing so many reports...with no official word from the police, that I'm not sure what to believe.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Yes, some of them are armed....and have to hire security that are armed.....because of the 35% of Americans who legally own guns, and the many other millions who own them illegally. We have 393 million guns in this country, which adds up to about 120 guns per gun owner....on average. So some only have one, or a few....others have hundreds. And so even a very small percentage of those people are unhinged...that adds up to a risk for anyone in the public eye. Celebrities are just trying to protect themselves in those instance. I'm sure most of them wish that they didn't have to do that.

Isn’t the bolded true of most gun owners?

 

[bcla]

Yeah, I can see using real guns on the set, but why in the world would they have real bullets? That just makes no sense at all.

Some armorers have taken shortcuts by turning regular ammo into dummy rounds. They might want everything to match about approximate weight, even in rehearsals.

Still - something this old wasn't designed for modern ammunition. It would have been traditional black powder, and maybe not even a brass case. I found this photo of an original .36 caliber paper cartridge for a Colt Navy. I think they can take brass though. I'm sure there will be more details with police reports.

 

[LYSE]

It was a movie set. Again, someone is hired to be the "expert" who does all the safety checks and makes sure that people won't get injured.

The "safety measures" that you mention simply don't apply to film and TV. They are literally portraying people shooting guns at each other. It would certainly be impossible to make a western, police drama, or war movie without guns being pointed at each other, because that's what's done in a gunfight.

Still - we're still getting a lot of new information on what happened, and it's coming out gradually.

Thinking basic safety measures don't apply is exactly how someone ends up dead

All guns are loaded until the handler/operator verifies otherwise themselves.

Would someone be dead if the person who took it off the cart checked it then handed it over to the actor who then checked it again before pulling the trigger?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

This is what I'm looking forward to learning in the investigation, why in the world was the gun loaded with a real bullet and then handed to Alec to fire at camera? Something doesn't add up. I hope they dig deep into the prop/armorer person's history as well.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...armorer-24-charge-guns-Alec-Baldwin-film.html

 

[TLSnell1981]

I do not blame Alec for firing the gun, though he does bear responsibility as one of the producers on set, especially if there had been some previously noted safety issues. I think the brunt of it though is on the prop handlers who made this mistake. This is such a tragic accident though all around. Honestly, I can't believe Hollywood even uses weapons capable of actually firing.

It was a real weapon being treated as a prop. It was a senseless tragedy that was preventable. While I do believe others share in the blame Baldwin pulled the trigger. It's concerning that there were other incidents on the set prior to this...even a walkout over safety issues. How many ignorant people handled this weapon before it was given to an actor as a harmless "prop"?

 

[DLgal]

Isn’t the bolded true of most gun owners?

No. Most gun owners are not in any actual, day to day danger. They just think they are.

Celebrities often have stalkers, receive actual death threats, etc.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Isn’t the bolded true of most gun owners?

I suppose that many gun owners buy guns to protect themselves. I agree with you. But I think many Americans believe that this is just a vicious cycle that we have fooled ourselves into.....so guns means more guns...means....more guns. And I don't want to get off-topic because it will shut the thread down...but I think a lot of Americans, this one included, isn't interested in buying a gun for protection. If I don't feel safe enough where I live than I will move....and we did that once before, ironically from Orlando, where crime really spiked and we felt unsafe. I think that our crazed celebrity loving culture makes them much more vulnerable than 99.9% of Americans. I'm not saying I feel sorry for them or anything....they've chosen a life where they put themselves way, way out there. But for all the glitz and glam....safety is a serious downside.

 

[dvcgirl67]

No. Most gun owners are not in any actual, day to day danger. They just think they are.

Celebrities often have stalkers, receive actual death threats, etc.

Exactly right.

 

[Alan1972]

I do not blame Alec for firing the gun, though he does bear responsibility as one of the producers on set, especially if there had been some previously noted safety issues. I think the brunt of it though is on the prop handlers who made this mistake. This is such a tragic accident though all around. Honestly, I can't believe Hollywood even uses weapons capable of actually firing.

I agree. The ignorant will jump through hoops to blame Baldwin for various reasons but the obvious reality(not a term they're familiar with) is it was an accident with the primary responsibility going to the armorer/prop master and the assistant director.

 

[DLgal]

All these people saying Alec should have checked the gun...

Why would you expect any actor to even KNOW how to do this? I certainly wouldn't know how or what to check on a gun if someone handed me one. It's very possible that he literally wouldn't even know what to look for. This is the entire reason why film and tv productions hire armorers.

This whole argument is like saying you should check your car when the mechanic hands it back to you after a service to make sure it's safe. Most of us wouldn't know how to do that. You trust that the mechanic gave you back a safe car. I mean, if the mechanic had accidentally severed a brake line or something and you caused a crash on the way home that killed someone, would it really be your fault if the investigation found the brake line had been severed by the mechanic? Likely you'd be off the hook. Same deal here. This was not the actor's fault at all.

There appeared to be 2 levels of responsibility above him. The armorer and then the assistant director that handed him the gun. I would assume if those 2 people confirmed the gun was safe, there would be no reason for the actor to check also. This appears to have been an accidental discharge of the weapon in any event, during a rehearsal of a scene. He allegedly did not point the camera at the victims and pull the trigger. It seems he pulled the weapon out of the holster and it went off, and the 2 people hit just happened to be in the line of fire, although they were not behind the camera that would have been filming the action. A terrible tragedy all around, but certainly not a criminal or intentional act.

Obviously a full investigation will uncover what actually happened, but this appears to be a case of an armorer who was not fully competent at her job.

 

[Skywalker]

I agree. The ignorant will jump through hoops to blame Baldwin for various reasons but the obvious reality(not a term they're familiar with) is it was an accident with the primary responsibility going to the armorer/prop master and the assistant director.

I have to agree. There was a person on set who was specifically in charge of this, the armorer and then an assistant director who apparently confirmed the gun wasn't loaded. They are the two that should be in hot water over this.

I have a friend who has worked on movie sets, and she doesn't think he is responsible either. As she said, there are people hired to take care of things, so that the talent can focus on what they do best. That is why there is a million billion different people credited on movies, everyone has a part to play. People were hired for just this purpose, they dropped the ball.