Marathon Weekend 2022

Whew, what a fun 4 days! I'm typically quiet and 95% invisible on this forum, but I feel like I know so many of you from your helpful comments and commentary over the past several months. Thank you, thank you, thank you to all of you for inspiring me to complete my second Dopey! You all rock!

Also, not sure if the race volunteers visit this forum, but I'm constantly amazed at how nice, friendly, and encouraging they all are! They definitely gave me energy with their words during the marathon. I tried to tell them thank you at every water stop but sometimes I was drinking/choking/gagging on blue nastiness so the words wouldn't come out, lol.

Random Question 1: My Pinocchio, Joy, and Sadness pics from the 5k never showed up. Did anyone else get them?

Random Question 2: Did anyone get a pic of the Mile 13 marker in the half marathon? I have a pic of ever mile marker from every race except that one.

Hope to maybe come out of my shell in 2023 and actually try to meet some of you!
 
I have zero problems with people walking, I mean that sincerely, do your race, but just own it please and start toward the back.
I’m curious as to what you think rD should be doing to better place runners properly. In my mind, after many race weekends, incorrect placement of runners is a problem with runner ethics, not rD.
I was in S6 as I should have been, and I actually wonder if the expedited starts will help with people giving inaccurate time estimates over time. Because the start was so expedited, people who were in earlier corrals had less “wiggle room” than typical. As a person in S6, I appreciated the quicker start for sure as it was less waiting around. Although it was sad not to be able to watch/hear the pre-race stuff on marathon morning.
 
[QUOTE="stitchsnk, post: 63667025,

Also, maybe TMI but useful for the future moms out there- I ran the marathon while still a breastfeeding mama. Since husband and baby were back home, I pumped before the race, pumped once during, and immediately after. It wasn’t glamorous and I sure don’t want to do that again, but it is doable!!
[/QUOTE]

Out of curiousity, where did you stop mid-race? I might have to do this next year
 
Do you run with body glide on your feet or any other blister aid?
I tape the bottom of my feet with blister tape or moleskine. I used moleskine this weekend and that might have been my error. Should have stuck with the tape (although on a recent long run the tape was pulling on my foot weird and gave me a muscle knot).
 
If you're going to attempt another marathon or even a half-marathon (which I think that you definitely should FWIW!), I would recommend researching and doing a sweat test. From my research and understanding (@DopeyBadger could probably enlighten all of us with his information and knowledge base), you should be hydrating A LOT more than one drink every mile. Speaking personally, I am a very heavy sweater so I would be seriously dehydrated if I hadn't been drinking every 1/3 mile mile or so.

The research is mixed and I don't believe there is a consensus on the methodology of drinking fluids during a marathon. One of the most common suggestions is to drink to thirst. Ultimately, I think it's a mix of do what you did in training, learn what your individual needs are, and then be willing to adjust on race day.

For anecdotal information, here is my consumption rate on an hourly basis for a Marathon (including carbs, electrolyte, and caffeine information):

15 min prior to start: 17oz of Maurten 320
Per hr consumption:
Water = 40oz/hr (estimated 3 oz per cup and 13 cups if racing)
Calories = 373/hr
Sodium = 646mg/hr
Carbs = 93g/hr
Potassium = 145mg/hr
Magnesium = 14mg/hr
Calcium = 40mg/hr
Caffiene = 66mg/hr

So in a 3 hour marathon, I estimated I drink about 137oz of water. That's about 1.07 gallons or 4.05 liters. I tend to be on the high side of things.

Warning: negative rD content: I was actually one of the people in the PoT thread (maybe the only one) arguing that it's fine that they did away with PoT for anyone slower than a 4 hr marathon because nobody runs the pace they say they are going to run anyway. But boy howdy I underestimated how many people would just say they are going to do a < 5hr marathon, get released early, and then just walk or mostly walk. I have zero problems with people walking, I mean that sincerely, do your race, but just own it please and start toward the back. That, coupled with the quick release, was not ideal. I hate to be a Negative Nancy, but I don't think I'm running another rD race without a PoT. That was nuts.
“Corral hopping”, cheating on proof of time, and outright lying about estimated paces have always been an issue. Many runners prioritize their own ability to get course photos and/or cover for their lack of training over all else. I don’t know how rD is supposed to police this and I think they’ve done a pretty good job, all things considered, of at least trying to get the races off on the right foot by spreading things out with the mini-waves, Sunday’s marathon notwithstanding.

I definitely think there's a fine balance. Like @camaker said, "Corral jumping" is always going to exist. How much cheating on POT occurs is an unknown, but I would venture to guess it's quite low. So it simply comes down to whether runDisney wants to collect more submissions of POT, but never really check them (what I had always assumed was the case pre-2022) or go with the idea of collecting a smaller number of POT submissions because of tougher standards, and then actually check them. For me, why not a little of both?

I have been an advocate that the POT standards be lessened instead of strengthened. I'd personally like to see them move the standards from a 2:45 to a 3:00 or 3:15 HM, instead of a 2:00 HM (or in the case of the M instead of 4hrs I'd do 6 hrs). In that case, you'll get more submissions. I think you say you'll check them, and if they're falsified, you go to the back. But in reality, you still only check the sub-2 submissions to ensure the first one or two corrals have a majority of appropriately placed runners. I believe the vast majority of runners won't submit falsified data when there's the threat of being put in the last corral. When it comes to an estimated drop-down method where there is no verification, then people are more willing to choose something that may be potentially faster than they'd ever be able to do. Because with the simple drop-down there is no information to prove otherwise. I personally don't see it as the same level of false information.

Now, the flip side is the new runners that don't yet have a POT for even a 3:00-3:15 HM. In a normal year, race registration is 8 months in advance of the race. It would seem to me that it's not unreasonable to do a 10k within that time period if you have a strong desire not to be in the last corral as a new runner. Certainly there will be those who are unable to do it within that time period, but I would think the vast majority of runners that want to, could. Same goes for a M. It's not an unreasonable expectation to do a 10 mile or HM before a M. Maybe even lessen the standard to a 10k if you felt strong enough (potentially with a massive hit on the race equivalency calculator).

There were two factors that would make the 2022 M course seem more congested than a normal year. First, they released the entire field in about half the time. So that means in essence the density of the runners doubled. At times it would feel like a field of 32,000 runners instead of a field of 16,000 runners. So for every open space that would have been there in a rate release over 60 min, you now have a person in that spot. So new POT standards or not, that's going to make things way way more congested.

Second, 2022 was a clear outlier in terms of distribution of runners across the corrals than the three previous races when the POT standard was 5:30.

Screen Shot 2022-01-11 at 8.43.08 AM.png

From 2018-2020, about 42-45% had a POT of 5:30 or faster. That means 55-58% of the field did not have a POT, and where seeded in the last three corrals. In what was the 4:00-4:30 corral in 2018-2020 (Corral C) there was about 10-12% of the field.

Compare that to 2022. A total of 70% of the field submitted a 5:30 or faster (compared to the previous 42-45%). Only 30% of the field chose 5:30 or slower. In what was the 4:00-4:30 corral in 2018-2020 (Corral C), but was s3 for 2022 there was about 27% of the field. The 2022 numbers are rough and based on some assumptions, so don't take them as completely fact. But they're generally close to reality.

So the runners were overall released in a more dense manner (30 min release time) and there was clearly an influx of runners in the top corrals based on estimated finish times.

I was in S6 as I should have been, and I actually wonder if the expedited starts will help with people giving inaccurate time estimates over time. Because the start was so expedited, people who were in earlier corrals had less “wiggle room” than typical.

I think two things will actually drive it as an opposite effect. Similar to what we saw when comparing 2018 to 2019. You can see in the data that F, G, and H were reasonably even in 2018. But in 2019 and 2020 there was a huge swing towards submitting a 5:30 estimate. Presumably for more time on the course. Because moving from having 10% less of the field ahead of you means an extra six minutes of start time (roughly) versus the balloon ladies. You could gain as much as 10-15 min or so depending on placement within the corral.

So after people's experience in 2022, I think you'll see more runners say, "Well in 2022 I put the appropriate time of a 5:30, but then I was seeded in s6 behind 70% of the field when in 2018-2020 I was closer to the top 45% of the field if I started at the front of the corral. So I'm just going to fudge my estimate just like what seems like everyone else is doing." Just a hunch though based on past rD data.

Second, if a person who was suppose to have a 30 min buffer being the 50th percentile starter, goes to a 15 min buffer as the 50th percentile starter, I don't think they'll be inclined to put a more accurate estimate and put an even slower submission. That would mean they'd now have a smaller buffer than the 15 min they saw in 2022. They're more likely to put an even faster submission to increase their buffer time.
 
Whew, what a fun 4 days! I'm typically quiet and 95% invisible on this forum, but I feel like I know so many of you from your helpful comments and commentary over the past several months. Thank you, thank you, thank you to all of you for inspiring me to complete my second Dopey! You all rock!

Also, not sure if the race volunteers visit this forum, but I'm constantly amazed at how nice, friendly, and encouraging they all are! They definitely gave me energy with their words during the marathon. I tried to tell them thank you at every water stop but sometimes I was drinking/choking/gagging on blue nastiness so the words wouldn't come out, lol.

Random Question 1: My Pinocchio, Joy, and Sadness pics from the 5k never showed up. Did anyone else get them?

Random Question 2: Did anyone get a pic of the Mile 13 marker in the half marathon? I have a pic of ever mile marker from every race except that one.

Hope to maybe come out of my shell in 2023 and actually try to meet some of you!
I can answer part of the first question, i stopped for Joy and that photo came through.
 
Starting corrals: IMHO, the answer is that RD accept PoTs other than the single cutoff. As noted, the latter corrals had a mix of runners with paces from 10-min miles to 16-min miles. Adding some granularity (in theory) would help. I can't hit their PoT cutoffs, but I could (for instance) prove an 11-min mile in a half. One would think that this might cut down on some of the lying. And if I'm reading things correctly, it looks like the RD policy is also one of "if you want an earlier corral, join our running club and pay for moving up". If that's the case, they should just say so, because right now it looks like they are accepting some claimed PoTs and ignoring others. The Peachtree Roadrace application lets you submit a PoT from a certified race and that puts most of the runners in order from faster to slower. With 60K people, there is still some cheating, but for the most part it keeps from having many walkers in front of you.

Medals: I didn't notice any chipping, even with one medal bouncing off the pavement as I tried to juggle all the post-race stuff and my hands weren't working well. Got lucky on that. I like the idea of tucking a plastic grocery bag into the belt for post race items. I thought the squeeze bottles were go-gurt, but they are apple sauce. Wish I had known that before I got back home.
I did grab a bit of vegetation and use the stem to wedge behind Oswald to keep him from clinking the whole time I was walking around. And I really like how they did the Goofy medal.

Snot rocket: I would have been annoyed if one came near me. If it had landed on me, there probably would have been a clipping call. There's no excuse for anything that vile and disgusting.

Fun facts: I started tracking my training on Aug 1st. Per the Half-Assed Running Method (TM) I was averaging 10,366 steps per day and 2,532 calories burned per day.
Over the 4 days of the Dopey, the average was 44,281 steps and 4,329 calories.
Sunday was 66,206 steps for that day alone. Just wow.
 
I tape the bottom of my feet with blister tape or moleskine. I used moleskine this weekend and that might have been my error. Should have stuck with the tape (although on a recent long run the tape was pulling on my foot weird and gave me a muscle knot).
I have some toes that chaff on each other, so I put moleskin on one toe, and bodyglide on the other toe. My only two blisters are on the bottom of my pinky toes, so I need to remember to put moleskin on those areas next time. I did the taping and moleskin application right before going to bed. One less thing to do at 2:30 in the morning.
I bodyglided all the toes as well as possible and then put on the Injinji's for the marathon, regular socks for the other races. I neglected to bodyglide under my arms and really felt that on Sunday evening.
 
Random Question 2: Did anyone get a pic of the Mile 13 marker in the half marathon? I have a pic of ever mile marker from every race except that one.
I have Mile 13 for the half - with no one standing in front! I can send it to you via DM.

Anyone have Mile Marker 19 for the full? That's the only one I'm missing - I think I was focused on getting to the medical tent for a vaseline stick.
 
I neglected to bodyglide under my arms and really felt that on Sunday evening.

I have never had chaffing issues under my arms until Saturday. About mile 10 I was like what the heck? Stopped and grabbed vaseline stick and did a quick rub under each arm while running. Sunday I remember before the race to lube up. I went over to the med booth in the meet up area and grabbed several sticks of vaseline. I put it everywhere that day. Much better and another learning moment from this past weekend.
 
I bodyglided all the toes as well as possible and then put on the Injinji's for the marathon
I just ordered some of those socks, but they were delayed and since I did not get to try them on a long run I opted not to wear them for the race. I don’t know if they will help though because my blisters are on the soles of my feet, not my toes. And I have one on my heel now, too, which has never happened before.
 
I have Mile 13 for the half - with no one standing in front! I can send it to you via DM.

Anyone have Mile Marker 19 for the full? That's the only one I'm missing - I think I was focused on getting to the medical tent for a vaseline stick.

I just replied to you via (I think) DM, but I'll be sending Mile Marker 19 your way shortly!
 
I have Mile 13 for the half - with no one standing in front! I can send it to you via DM.

Anyone have Mile Marker 19 for the full? That's the only one I'm missing - I think I was focused on getting to the medical tent for a vaseline stick.

And wow, I guess I'm a liar. I just checked and I have Mile Markers 1-18, 20-26 but not 19. How is that possible? I really didn't think I missed one on the marathon. I have Mile Marker 18, then pics of the people holding the veggie joke signs ("Beet Your Best Time"), then a pic with Bullseye the horse, then Mile Marker 20.
 
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And wow, I guess I'm a liar. I just checked and I have Mile Markers 1-17, 20-26 but not 19. How is that possible? I really didn't think I missed one on the marathon. I have Mile Marker 18, then pics of the people holding the veggie joke signs ("Beet Your Best Time"), then a pic with Bullseye the horse, then Mile Marker 20.

No worries! if I recall correctly it was right at a med tent which might have partially obscured it- I saw it - but then stopped at the tent and forgot to take the picture when I left.
 
I just ordered some of those socks, but they were delayed and since I did not get to try them on a long run I opted not to wear them for the race. I don’t know if they will help though because my blisters are on the soles of my feet, not my toes. And I have one on my heel now, too, which has never happened before.
The Injinjis will feel funny at first, so take a short run or two to get used to them. A few minutes after I had them on Sunday, I didn't notice them. I also put on a pair of very thin socks over them because I like to have double-socks for added friction/motion protection, but with that pair of shoes, the second pair needed to be very thin so that my shoes weren't too tight. As noted, the underside of my pinky toes got blisters, but nothing else on the bottom of toes or foot. Maybe double-socking will help with the bottom of the feet.
I put a corn pad on the side of my one big toe to keep the second toe from jamming into it (because that one second toe is formed funny) and put a piece of surgical tape around the big toe to hold it into place.
FWIW, other than the marathon, I manage to run in a single pair of regular socks for 5ks thru half-marathons and no chaffing or blisters. Go figure. YMMV.

As a side note, I have what seems to be Morton's neuroma in my left foot and it has been aggavating me during runs for the last couple of months, and even when just walking around the house. Amazingly, it made itself known only for a couple of miles early in the half or full and was otherwise a non-factor for the weekend. Whew.
 
The Powerade for most of the stops seemed watered down, or maybe that’s just the blue flavor, but at the stop coming out of AK it tasted salty. Was that batch doctored?

I was a volunteer a few years back filling the sports drink mix. If rD is anything like that experience you dump either a full or half pouch of mix and then fill the rest with water from a hose so you don't get a lot of consistency.

Does anyone know if I add Memory Maker to my AP now will I be able to download all my race pics or did I need to do that before MW?

You should be able to add MM after the fact. I don't know for how long but I suspect Disney makes a lot of money from people that see their photos after the fact and then buy them so I don't see this going away. Disney doesn't do a lot of saying no to you giving them money.
 
RE: the Powerade mix, I have a big container of Gatorade powder and without fail, every time I mix it up, a lot of the powder ends up at the bottom. You’re just not getting the same consistency as you would with the bottles. So it makes sense that it would be even worse when you’re trying to make it for races.
 
And wow, I guess I'm a liar. I just checked and I have Mile Markers 1-18, 20-26 but not 19. How is that possible? I really didn't think I missed one on the marathon. I have Mile Marker 18, then pics of the people holding the veggie joke signs ("Beet Your Best Time"), then a pic with Bullseye the horse, then Mile Marker 20.
No worries! if I recall correctly it was right at a med tent which might have partially obscured it- I saw it - but then stopped at the tent and forgot to take the picture when I left.
I’m thinking 19 was right past the sponges - in the middle of the aid station. I turn off auto-lap on my watch, and manually lap it at each mile marker (to keep each race mile on target). I missed clicking it while I was getting my sponge - so that mile shows long on my Garmin and the next one is short. 😁
 

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