"Dress Coded"

Mouse House Mama said:
Why does everyone keep assuming it’s because it’s distracting to boys? Most places have a dress code. Many people do not know how to dress appropriately. Boys or girls with half their butt hanging out should be sent to change. That is not appropriate attire. Some of the shorts for the girls that they sell are like denim underwear. Their cheeks are hanging out. I call them heiney hangers. It has nothing to do with being distracted. You shouldn’t have your parts hanging out in a school. Personally I don’t think they should be hanging out anywhere but maybe there is a place where that’s a thing. I don’t know. I don’t go anywhere that it is. Boys also should not have their pants hanging low either. Your underwear does not need to be hanging out because your pants are pulled down to your knees. Ymmv.
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I think you are exaggerating what kids are wearing to school. I have seen countless girls dress coded, but I have never see any wearing what you describe.

Here’s an example of my own child.
E9A81FAF-7FAE-4E15-890D-BB25817360DA.jpeg
I find nothing revealing about these shorts. There are certainly no “cheeks or heiney” on display as you describe and yet she was sent to the office every time she wore these or something similar to school.

Also, many of us are not “assuming” that the dress code is intended to prevent boys from being distracted. Many school handbooks explicitly state that is the case.
 
Mouse House Mama said:
Why does everyone keep assuming it’s because it’s distracting to boys? Most places have a dress code. Many people do not know how to dress appropriately. Boys or girls with half their butt hanging out should be sent to change. That is not appropriate attire. Some of the shorts for the girls that they sell are like denim underwear. Their cheeks are hanging out. I call them heiney hangers. It has nothing to do with being distracted. You shouldn’t have your parts hanging out in a school. Personally I don’t think they should be hanging out anywhere but maybe there is a place where that’s a thing. I don’t know. I don’t go anywhere that it is. Boys also should not have their pants hanging low either. Your underwear does not need to be hanging out because your pants are pulled down to your knees. Ymmv.
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You do realize that there is a HUGE amount of material between shorts with someone’s butt cheeks hanging out and fingertip length, don’t you? I would sincerely hope that a teacher could tell that the shorts you describe are too short without measuring. They measure for shorts that are just above fingertip length, not the shorts you are describing.

As for guys with their underwear showing, that fad seems to have finally gone away here. But I agree they shouldn’t be dressed that way.
 
Jim Shuler said:
Didn't say it was a good idea to miss class time-do you think it is a good idea for kids to ignore established rules because they are just sitting in a chair. You act as if clothes and the way you dress are not part of the persona you want to portray. Most people do dress appropriately but those that can't follow rules designed for the benefit of all should be called out.
Send them to the office for the day and stop the behavior. That way it sends a message that the rules are designed to be followed. If the rules are draconian then get the rules changed. Otherwise follow the rules.

Even Disney has procedures, rules, and common decency such as standing in line and waiting your turn. Why? Because it is polite, mature, and benefits the entire experience for all.
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A single or a few parents often have no ability to change a rule. And I have no problem with kids ignoring established rules because they are sitting in a chair when those rules are teaching girls that they should cover up lest the poor, uncontrollable boys find their shoulders distracting.
 
monsterkitty said:
Okay, I'll play.

I teach band and orchestra. One cannot sit in a chair with a short short skirt and play the clarinet, cello, saxophone, violin, viola, or many other instruments with correct posture and playing position.

In other classes there is a lot more to learning than sitting in a chair. Many teachers have active classrooms. The AVID teacher has kids jumping or crawling around the room at times in team building activities. Same in drama. There is a lot activity going on. Kids don't just sit in a chair.

To address your question of why do we think it's a good idea for students to miss class time because of what they're wearing. Of course we don't. However, it's a great idea to teach students that following expectations is a real world skill. If you don't follow an expectation there are sometimes consequences. In our school we have the students change into clean PE shirts, shorts, or sweats if it's cold, or they can have their parents bring them a change of clothes. If they choose to have their parents bring them a change of clothes, they are sent back to class until the parent arrives at school. If the parent can't get there within an hour, the student is given PE clothes.

Trust me, we want kids in class. But sometimes lesssons are learned outside of a classroom as well.

For the record, the boys at my school break our dress code more than the girls with their sagging and tee shirts.
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Dress codes were absolutely not created because sometimes students may be using a cello or moving around a classroom a bit.
 


jaiminee krikit said:
Then they're not surprised when they get a job with one.
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Or don't get a job because they didn't "look" professional. Something my niece didn't understand on her first 2 interviews. Yes, she's smart, and yes, she's was a good worker (and I would recommend her for any job she wanted), but she couldn't understand why she couldn't wear booty shorts, crop top and flip-flops to a job interview.

So, her mom (my sister) let her do it. Guess what, she didn't get either job. Next interview - nice knee length skirt, blouse, and shoes. Bingo, she got the job.
 
Dd didn’t learn how to dress for a job interview through a dress code. None of my kids did.

Both sons were on sports teams. On game days they had to “dress professionally”. So nice pants, button down shirt and a tie. Pants could be jeans but had to be nice, pressed jeans.

Dd was in choir and every competition, they took clothes to change out of their choir dress. And they were instructed that they had to be dressed professionally. It took some of them a few tries but they all got it. And she also had an English class that required some presentation and for that they had to dress professionally.

What some of the choir girls thought was “professional dress” in the beginning was laughable. And these are kids who had been wearing uniforms since 3rd grade. But they all got it by sophomore year.
 
I am not a fan of our schools dress code policy. We live in Southern Florida and it's already 90 here everyday and the vast majority of girls wear leggings to school everyday because they have such a hard time finding shorts that won't get them dress coded. Especially annoying is that regulating the policy is very inconsistent, it completely depends on what teachers you have. My daughter does not own a single pair of shorts that would meet the fingertip rule as she happens to be very tall, however they are not even close to being booty shorts - as I can't stand booty shorts and wouldn't let her out of the house in them.

She put her shorts on for school this year and I stopped her and told her to change so she wouldn't get dress coded and she said, oh I'm ok mom, my teachers don't care - as long as I don't walk by xyz teacher's door it doesn't matter. I made her put leggings in her backpack so that she could chnage if necessary and she never did. Technically leggings are on the "no" list too, but they've never enforced that which is good - because taking away normal shorts and leggings would leave the girls with very little to wear in this heat.

We got a 2 page sheet with pictures about what was appropriate for the 8th grade dance, and I do have to say - it was pretty good. Maybe a tiny bit harder on the girls, taking away some pretty popular current styles, but overall it was a well done explanation of what to wear and how to look nice for the dance.
 


tzolkin said:
Here’s an example of my own child.
View attachment 399943
I find nothing revealing about these shorts. There are certainly no “cheeks or heiney” on display...
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I agree! There is nothing wrong with those, and it's stupid that she was sent to the office over them.

If anything, the dress code in DS's school handbook is not enforced (except for hats/hoods, which they jump on as soon as you're halfway through the lobby door.:confused3) He says he's seen way shorter shorts. And no, he doesn't find it "distracting" - but he did make an interesting observation that they should just take it off the books if they're not going to enforce it. As is, it sets a precedent that other rules are optional as well.

To the original post, I definitely think the teacher is out of line putting the girls on display. Reminds me of one I had in college - strict "no shorts" policy in his class...but girls could wear any skirt they wanted. :scratchin
 
amberpi said:
You can file a formal complaint it sounds like. From what you've described, his behavior is making your daughter uncomfortable. I bet it is to more students than just your child. I hope this improve. Dude sounds like he's on some kind of power trip, or just a straight up perv.
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I agree. And especially if no other teacher handles things this way, then something is really off with this teacher. I'd be at the school first thing Monday morning, and I am not an alarmist by any means.
 
ashley0139 said:
A single or a few parents often have no ability to change a rule. And I have no problem with kids ignoring established rules because they are sitting in a chair when those rules are teaching girls that they should cover up lest the poor, uncontrollable boys find their shoulders distracting.
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Heaven forbid males find females attractive. Our world has turned upside down. Are we now talking about exposed shoulder as the argument? That was a switch.
If you can't get the rules changed then it must mean the rules are working for most-maybe just have to accept the rule even though may not agree with it. All part of the educational process.
We learn in more places than a classroom or a school building.
 
I think this discussion of "professional" attire is interesting (and I've spent most of my career in a business dress - not business casual - environment) when what's considered "professional" has changed so much in the last couple of decades. When Goldman got rid of suits, the idea of having to dress professionally took a hit. I was at UBS last month and saw several employees with purple hair, visible tattoos, etc. If freaking INVESTMENT BANKING is letting go of some of the old standards, I think we can all admit that the concept of appropriate professional attire is in constant flux. I don't know if making kids just tow the line in such a stalward fashion makes sense. Also, parents can easily teach their kids what they need to know about interviewing, including dress, while allowing students the latitude to be comfortable and expressive in an educational environment. Just a thought. The times change, our attitudes about clothing should too.
 
tzolkin said:
I think you are exaggerating what kids are wearing to school. I have seen countless girls dress coded, but I have never see any wearing what you describe.
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I teach in a PreK-12 school. I have 100% seen clothing as she has described. Not exaggerating, in my experience. Our dress code attempts to err on the side of gender equality and reasonableness/enforceability ...which means that sometimes we have kids way over the line of what I personally find appropriate for school. I absolutely saw an 8th grade girl’s butt cheeks hanging out of her shorts last week. I don’t mean upper leg. Butt. Cheek. Last year there was a high school girl going braless in a loose tank top with very, very deep armholes. (That student I know was asked to change.) But they aren’t my children and it’s not part of my specific job to monitor dress code issues. I make sure my child is dressed according to our personal values and I point out any truly questionable clothing wrt the dress code to the teachers in charge of dealing with those issues. For the record, it’s addressed one-on-one by students’ individual advisors or by another grade level advisor of the same gender as the student, not in front of the class.

I find this a challenging topic, personally. I don’t want kids to be body-shamed or singled out, and I find many dress codes to be sexist/“shapeist”. But at the same time, I see children and teenagers who do need guidance on what is and is not appropriate clothing in our society in certain circumstances.
 
amberpi said:
What a great way to get a broken leg at the beginning of the trip.
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Jumping on the mattress, not from the bed to the floor. Inconsiderate toward the bed owner, possibly, but avoids damaging one's own mattress.
ashley0139 said:
Why do you think it's a good idea for students to miss class time because of what they're wearing? I'm honestly curious.
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It's not, so if students complied in full with the dress code (ideally while fighting for change) they would be able to stay in class.

luvsJack said:
Making a girl so uncomfortable that she doesn’t wear weather appropriate clothing
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Long pants, capris, pedal pushers, Bermuda shorts, close to onee length skirts, aren't inappropriate. Comply with the dress code, voila!
 
Lol. I’m in the minority. I don’t have a problem with booty shorts at a high school. I don’t see the connection between learning outcomes and length of shorts. I was so modest at 18. If I could go back, I’d definitely be sporting crop tops and booty shorts ;)

I guess I’m becoming less willing to conform to being perfectly appropriate the older I get.
 
kaytieeldr said:
Long pants, capris, pedal pushers, Bermuda shorts, close to onee length skirts, aren't inappropriate. Comply with the dress code, voila!
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It's 90 degrees every day down here, every classroom opens up to the outside and lunch is held outside. Kids are outside a lot. So yes, it is dress code appropriate to wear long pants and lots of girls end up doing so, even though they are very uncomfortable given the weather. Capris and pedal pushers are not currently being sold in any junior section of any store that I've been in for the past few years. And while if you look very very hard you may find bermuda shorts - you most certainly will not find any knee length skirts in the junior section. Nobody wears bermuda shorts, which is why they aren't being sold in the stores, they're not in style. So I could force my daughter to get the one pair of bermuda shorts we found in the back of Kohls, she would abhor having to wear something so unstylish and that no one else is wearing, which again leaves her with the choice of long pants, or of wearing mid thigh shorts that are completely appropriate according to her strict mother and father - but don't quite meet the dress code at school. I think that is an unfortunate situation to put girls in.

Boys have it easy - every pair of shorts currently sold in every store I've been has met the dress code, giving the boys plenty of ways to express themselves AND be weather and dress code appropriate.
 
kaytieeldr said:
In school. Not all students participate in extracurricular activities.

Again, in school. Not all students participate in extracurricular activities.

They learned how to dress appropriately for any situation.
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No, not really. They learned how to wear the same thing everyone else was wearing.

And I realize not everyone plays a sport or does extra curricular which is why I mentioned the English class. Every student takes English.
 
kaytieeldr said:
Jumping on the mattress, not from the bed to the floor. Inconsiderate toward the bed owner, possibly, but avoids damaging one's own mattress.

It's not, so if students complied in full with the dress code (ideally while fighting for change) they would be able to stay in class.


Long pants, capris, pedal pushers, Bermuda shorts, close to onee length skirts, aren't inappropriate. Comply with the dress code, voila!
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The girl in the op is complying with dress code. She isn’t comfortable with the measuring and that is a problem. No student should be made uncomfortable about what they are wearing or their body.
 
wgeo said:
It's 90 degrees every day down here, every classroom opens up to the outside and lunch is held outside. Kids are outside a lot. So yes, it is dress code appropriate to wear long pants and lots of girls end up doing so, even though they are very uncomfortable given the weather. Capris and pedal pushers are not currently being sold in any junior section of any store that I've been in for the past few years. And while if you look very very hard you may find bermuda shorts - you most certainly will not find any knee length skirts in the junior section. Nobody wears bermuda shorts, which is why they aren't being sold in the stores, they're not in style. So I could force my daughter to get the one pair of bermuda shorts we found in the back of Kohls, she would abhor having to wear something so unstylish and that no one else is wearing, which again leaves her with the choice of long pants, or of wearing mid thigh shorts that are completely appropriate according to her strict mother and father - but don't quite meet the dress code at school. I think that is an unfortunate situation to put girls in.

Boys have it easy - every pair of shorts currently sold in every store I've been has met the dress code, giving the boys plenty of ways to express themselves AND be weather and dress code appropriate.
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She wouldn't last a second in my old secondary school, we had uniforms that were the opposite of fashionable- think knee length, no shorter pleated skirts, horrible blouses, cardigans. No taking off your cardigan unless the head master decided it was "hot weather rules." No trousers for girls either, just skirts. Only time we got to wear shorts were horrible polyester striped ones for PE. Somehow, I survived. Oh yeah, did I mention that we had brown and yellow as our school colours?

What's stopping your daughter from buying boys shorts, then? Problem solved. They're just shorts.
 
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