Resale Resorts Riv eligibility

TTA Rider Matt · Oct 1, 2020

I would love if this is true, because I have 2 resale contracts and none direct. I did what Sandisw did and tried to book a Riviera stay on my resale contract, and I couldn't.

As much as it would be great for this to be true, I would truly feel bad for people who have sold Riviera this year for $120-$130 a point after paying $185-195 just a year or so ago. I would think if we knew that Riviera resale points would be unrestricted, it would probably sell in the VGF price point.

E2ME2 · Oct 1, 2020

Lorana said:
Disney is a large enough company that the ability for a massive breakdown in mechanisms and/or communication and thus having a legal doc change get out without review is just as likely as having every document read every time it goes out.

I agree with this last statement, and the former scenario is more probable than the latter.

havoc315 · Oct 1, 2020

TTA Rider Matt said:
I would love if this is true, because I have 2 resale contracts and none direct. I did what Sandisw did and tried to book a Riviera stay on my resale contract, and I couldn't.

As much as it would be great for this to be true, I would truly feel bad for people who have sold Riviera this year for $120-$130 a point after paying $185-195 just a year or so ago. I would think if we knew that Riviera resale points would be unrestricted, it would probably sell in the VGF price point.

VGF resale is is practically the same price as Riviera new (with the incentives that have been in place this year).
Considering the lack of a premium location (not Magic Kingdom, not walkable to Boardwalk/Epcot. It has the same location as a moderate level resort), it simply won't even be as valuable as VGF.

Sandisw · Oct 1, 2020

havoc315 said:
VGF resale is is practically the same price as Riviera new (with the incentives that have been in place this year).
Considering the lack of a premium location (not Magic Kingdom, not walkable to Boardwalk/Epcot. It has the same location as a moderate level resort), it simply won't even be as valuable as VGF.

IIts done better on resale than most ever thought, even with not many.

Many of us bought who said we never would. So, I could see it competing with VGF if there are no restrictions.

Some people are not bothered by its location. Of course, unless those restrictions are lifted, it definitely won’t.

TinkB278 · Oct 1, 2020

havoc315 said:
VGF resale is is practically the same price as Riviera new (with the incentives that have been in place this year).
Considering the lack of a premium location (not Magic Kingdom, not walkable to Boardwalk/Epcot. It has the same location as a moderate level resort), it simply won't even be as valuable as VGF.

I don’t think you can say Rivieras location isn’t as good. It depends on what parks you like best. I don’t really care for MK at all but love DHS so Riviera is a better location for me with the Skyliner. The Skyliner will take me to both of my favorite parks.

havoc315 · Oct 1, 2020

Sandisw said:
IIts done better on resale than most ever thought, even with not many.

Many of us bought who said we never would. So, I could see it competing with VGF if there are no restrictions.

But if buying direct comes out to $170-190 per point... why would anyone pay $170-180 per point for re-sale?

TTA Rider Matt · Oct 1, 2020

havoc315 said:
VGF resale is is practically the same price as Riviera new (with the incentives that have been in place this year).
Considering the lack of a premium location (not Magic Kingdom, not walkable to Boardwalk/Epcot. It has the same location as a moderate level resort), it simply won't even be as valuable as VGF.

You may be right, but my point remains, if there were no resale restrictions, instead of $120/$130 a point for Riviera, you'd probably be looking more like $140/$150. I also think the location of Riviera is not so bad with the skyliner, plus some people are really drawn in to expiration date, where Riviera has 6 years longer. You can also stretch your points out as a Riviera owner by booking Tower Studios if you are a couple or solo, which are unlikely to be available at 7 months. There is a lot to like about Riviera, the main drawback has been the resale restrictions. If those are not in play, I believe the resale value goes up, maybe not dramatically, but at least $10-$20 a point, and if you're talking 150 points, that's $1,500 minimum.

Cabius · Oct 1, 2020

havoc315 said:
VGF resale is is practically the same price as Riviera new (with the incentives that have been in place this year).
Considering the lack of a premium location (not Magic Kingdom, not walkable to Boardwalk/Epcot. It has the same location as a moderate level resort), it simply won't even be as valuable as VGF.

Counter-point: they serve a Monte Cristo at Bar Riva, which is easily worth $10/point right?? :earboy2:

TinkB278 · Oct 1, 2020

havoc315 said:
But if buying direct comes out to $170-190 per point... why would anyone pay $170-180 per point for re-sale?

Also, those prices are with incentives. If the resale restrictions go away they may not offer such great incentives.

Further, eventually the resort will sell out (such as VGF) where there won’t really be the option to buy direct and it will all be resale, aside from whatever contracts DVC directly can provide. So at that point I imagine the resale market of RIV will dictate the price. Supply and demand.

havoc315 · Oct 1, 2020

TinkB278 said:
I don’t think you can say Rivieras location isn’t as good. It depends on what parks you like best. I don’t really care for MK at all but love DHS so Riviera is a better location for me with the Skyliner. The Skyliner will take me to both of my favorite parks.

So by that logic.... the location of Caribbean Beach Resort, Art of Animation and POP Century are better than Grand Floridian.
While you're right -- some people may subjectively prefer the location of Art of Animation over the location of the Grand Floridian, the majority of buyers certainly prefer Grand Floridian's location. As re-sale is a question of the market driving the price, all else being equal, you would expect a monorail resort to have greater demand than a skyliner resort.

And we really see this hold true is the resort pricing:

BLT, Poly and VGF all re-sell for $140-$160 per point
Boulder Ridge, with only boat transportation to MK -- $110 to $120 per point
The Epcot-walking resorts just slightly less: Boardwalk and Beach Club are $120 to $150 per point.
AKL, no monorail, no walkable parks -- $100 to $120 per point
SSR and OKW, often under $100 per point

The only oddity.. Copper Creek does very well, but still 35% off the "new" direct price, and still slightly below VGF.

havoc315 · Oct 1, 2020

TinkB278 said:
Also, those prices are with incentives. If the resale restrictions go away they may not offer such great incentives.

Further, eventually the resort will sell out (such as VGF) where there won’t really be the option to buy direct and it will all be resale, aside from whatever contracts DVC directly can provide. So at that point I imagine the resale market of RIV will dictate the price. Supply and demand.

Correct. I'm talking about right now, with the incentives in place, and with current pricing.

Sheriff1 · Oct 1, 2020

havoc315 said:
But if buying direct comes out to $170-190 per point... why would anyone pay $170-180 per point for re-sale?

VGF opened at $145-150 a point and it sells for more than this now as Disney pushed the direct price sky high. I’m sure Disney will increase the price of RIV as more sells. I’m not saying it will be comparable to VGF but I don’t think anyone was paying those prices for VGF whilst it was still in active direct sales I’m sure resale prices were lower.

havoc315 · Oct 1, 2020

TTA Rider Matt said:
You may be right, but my point remains, if there were no resale restrictions, instead of $120/$130 a point for Riviera, you'd probably be looking more like $140/$150. I also think the location of Riviera is not so bad with the skyliner, plus some people are really drawn in to expiration date, where Riviera has 6 years longer. You can also stretch your points out as a Riviera owner by booking Tower Studios if you are a couple or solo, which are unlikely to be available at 7 months. There is a lot to like about Riviera, the main drawback has been the resale restrictions. If those are not in play, I believe the resale value goes up, maybe not dramatically, but at least $10-$20 a point, and if you're talking 150 points, that's $1,500 minimum.

Agree totally. Definitely, removing the re-sale restriction would help the re-sale value. Agreed on all the positives of Riviera (it's my home resort). And yes, I can see getting $140+ without the restrictions. But VGF is $160+ .... just don't see Riviera hitting the same level as VGF.

Sheriff1 · Oct 1, 2020

havoc315 said:
So by that logic.... the location of Caribbean Beach Resort, Art of Animation and POP Century are better than Grand Floridian.
While you're right -- some people may subjectively prefer the location of Art of Animation over the location of the Grand Floridian, the majority of buyers certainly prefer Grand Floridian's location. As re-sale is a question of the market driving the price, all else being equal, you would expect a monorail resort to have greater demand than a skyliner resort.

And we really see this hold true is the resort pricing:

BLT, Poly and VGF all re-sell for $140-$160 per point
Boulder Ridge, with only boat transportation to MK -- $110 to $120 per point
The Epcot-walking resorts just slightly less: Boardwalk and Beach Club are $120 to $150 per point.
AKL, no monorail, no walkable parks -- $100 to $120 per point
SSR and OKW, often under $100 per point

The only oddity.. Copper Creek does very well, but still 35% off the "new" direct price, and still slightly below VGF.

I think BWV and BCV resale prices are impacted more by their expiry dates rather than their locations. I imagine they would be a lot higher if they had the same expiry as VGF.

poofyo101 · Oct 1, 2020

Just emailed my sales Agent about adding on on the old incentives as it was just recently completed and asked about the resale restrictions. She said she is finding out and emailing back.

Egyptess · Oct 1, 2020

Should this be true, wouldn't this also increase the resales and effectively increase pricing for older resorts as well?

Bing Showei · Oct 1, 2020

Sandisw said:
IIts done better on resale than most ever thought, even with not many.

That's a pretty low bar, Sandi.

havoc315 said:
VGF resale is is practically the same price as Riviera new (with the incentives that have been in place this year).
Considering the lack of a premium location (not Magic Kingdom, not walkable to Boardwalk/Epcot. It has the same location as a moderate level resort), it simply won't even be as valuable as VGF.

The Riviera is a stunning resort and before the VGF walkway was constructed, I would say the location was probably on par, and arguably better than VGF (and by that, I mean reliance on any mass transit to get into a park sucks, but RIV to DHS via Skyliner beats the hell out of VGF to Epcot every day, twice on Sunday via monorail... unless there's lightning, but I digress).

I think what has hurt Riviera sales has been more psychological than material.

For one, the competing location status when held up against its cohort of Epcot resorts (BWV/BCV) - resort-specific awesomeness aside- puts it at a distant third for most owners whether by way of nostalgia ("my grandfather milled the stone that was used to build the Boardwalk so we bought in back in 1847 and have stayed there every year since!"), or by way of conveniently strolling in for breakfast crescents.

For another, the restrictions were not really keeping most owners from being able to book there. What it did do was give a lot of those same owners pause about owning and being saddled with a new resort, on a new mass transit system, with shiny new restrictions to go with the shiny new rain shower heads. The last being the greatest risk introduced should the Riviera not fit in their lives in the future.

All of that said, most who were really interested enough eventually bought in, but most are probably content to book the resort with their dirt cheap points bought back in 1847, and wait to see what Disney offers up next.

If you ask me, they introduced the restrictions with the wrong resort. Try that fun little experiment out in CA and get people warmed up to the idea first. Most who buy resale out there will do so to stay out there. Former Caribbean Beach waterfront? Not so much. Then open up an Epcot gate resort; MK pathway resort; Yacht Club Villas; and sit back and watch how many resale restriction railers (present company included) suddenly don't care so much about resale restrictions.

TinkB278 · Oct 1, 2020

Egyptess said:
Should this be true, wouldn't this also increase the resales and effectively increase pricing for older resorts as well?

I would think this would be true if it had the effect of diverting those considering direct to buy resale instead. Otherwise I don’t see that it would have much impact of the price on resales.

It’s really interesting to think about whether this will increase direct or resales more.

Sandisw · Oct 1, 2020

Bing Showei said:
That's a pretty low bar, Sandi.

The Riviera is a stunning resort and before the VGF walkway was constructed, I would say the location was probably on par, and arguably better than VGF (and by that, I mean reliance on any mass transit to get into a park sucks, but RIV to DHS via Skyliner beats the hell out of VGF to Epcot every day, twice on Sunday via monorail... unless there's lightning, but I digress).

I think what has hurt Riviera sales has been more psychological than material.

For one, the competing location status when held up against its cohort of Epcot resorts (BWV/BCV) - resort-specific awesomeness aside- puts it at a distant third for most owners whether by way of nostalgia ("my grandfather milled the stone that was used to build the Boardwalk so we bought in back in 1847 and have stayed there every year since!"), or by way of conveniently strolling in for breakfast crescents.

For another, the restrictions were not really keeping most owners from being able to book there. What it did do was give a lot of those same owners pause about owning and being saddled with a new resort, on a new mass transit system, with shiny new restrictions to go with the shiny new rain shower heads. The last being the greatest risk introduced should the Riviera not fit in their lives in the future.

All of that said, most who were really interested enough eventually bought in, but most are probably content to book the resort with their dirt cheap points back in 1847, and wait to see what Disney offers up next.

If you ask me, they introduced the restrictions with the wrong resort. Try that fun little experiment out in CA and get people warmed up to the idea first. Most who buy resale out there will do so to stay out there. Former Caribbean Beach waterfront? Not so much. Then open up an Epcot gate resort; MK pathway resort; Yacht Club Villas; and sit back and watch how many resale restriction railers (present company included) suddenly don't care so much about resale restrictions.

Yes, it is because most of us thought for sure it would never go resale with restrictions for more than $100, myself included so to see people paying $120 to $140, is surprising..even with just a few.

TTA Rider Matt · Oct 1, 2020

havoc315 said:
Agree totally. Definitely, removing the re-sale restriction would help the re-sale value. Agreed on all the positives of Riviera (it's my home resort). And yes, I can see getting $140+ without the restrictions. But VGF is $160+ .... just don't see Riviera hitting the same level as VGF.

You are probably right, plus the maintenance fees are way higher at RIV, which will decrease what people are willing to pay. That said, my initial point was that people have been selling RIV for $120/$130 (asked my agent today, he has had 2 sold at those price points for 150/200 points), if resale restrictions are eliminated, I feel bad for the people who sold at this price point, when they could've made at least $10 more per point, more likely $20 more per point. That's a pretty big chunk of change.

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