100 Point RIV for $135

[ClemTig]

If I'm reading this correctly, the person selling this never actually used a single point of their contract. I went to look at Fidelity, and there are three current listings at Riviera, and all three have full points.

You'd think the buyers could rent some of the points to recover at least some of the cost, although they may not be aware of that option.

I think these are new buyers that don’t understand what options they had- or perhaps a divorce.

 

[Spark65]

Higher maint fees? Doubtful. The DVC part is 1/3 of a bigger hotel. MF have been lower in theses settings. Also, there is no Skyliner to pay for.

The maintenance fees will be higher rest assured and it has been stated in some other threads but RIV does not pay for the Skyliner.

 

[AKNOTTS66]

Higher maint fees? Doubtful. The DVC part is 1/3 of a bigger hotel. MF have been lower in theses settings. Also, there is no Skyliner to pay for.

Resale restrictions? Remains to be seen if they will still be around. But even if they are, not a deal breaker for me.

Higher $$ per point? Probably, but initial cost is only a part of the equation.

Here are other parts of my thought process-

-Wife and I prefer the style of the resort. By a lot.

-I’m not staring at CBR.

-We plan to park an RV next door, so kids/grandkids can stay at Reflections and we can hang out with them

-I don’t have to ride in a hot box suspended by a wire to my destination- a wire that I don’t trust won’t leave me hanging in 90+ degree heat without air conditioning. I’ll take the boat, thank you very much.

-There are recreation options next door at Fort Wilderness that don’t exist for RIV.

So we HAVE put a lot of thought into it. You may not agree, but then you’re not spending my money....

Reflections kinda has. Me a bit worried. If youve been following the reflections post it seems it will only have 200 rooms on the dvc side. In addition to that it is going to have a ton of cabins again like ccv so it looks like studio availability might be even worse at reflections than ccv. Unless a majority of its non cabin rooms are studios. It seems like most of reflections is going to be non dvc.

 

[ClemTig]

Reflections kinda has. Me a bit worried. If youve been following the reflections post it seems it will only have 200 rooms on the dvc side. In addition to that it is going to have a ton of cabins again like ccv so it looks like studio availability might be even worse at reflections than ccv. Unless a majority of its non cabin rooms are studios. It seems like most of reflections is going to be non dvc.

I never stay in Studios, so not an issue for me. High MFs would be a deal breaker for me, however. You actually spend much more in MFs through the years than your original point purchase. I will continue to buy resorts with below average MFs only.

 

[Royal Consort]

Reflections kinda has. Me a bit worried. If youve been following the reflections post it seems it will only have 200 rooms on the dvc side. In addition to that it is going to have a ton of cabins again like ccv so it looks like studio availability might be even worse at reflections than ccv. Unless a majority of its non cabin rooms are studios. It seems like most of reflections is going to be non dvc.

The studio issue at CCV was the reason I didn't buy there as we only need a studio for the 2 of us and travel in the fall. I also didn't want to walk reservations for 50 years. The reason you gave above is why I didn't wait to buy Reflections (even though I think I may like it).

I hasten to add that with any more point heavy bungalows, the system will be stretched even further at 7 months (particularly in the fall). If you require studios, better hope you like your home resort.

 

[ClemTig]

I hasten to add that with any more point heavy bungalows, the system will be stretched even further at 7 months (particularly in the fall). If you require studios, better hope you like your home resort.

I doubt all of the "bungalows/treehouses" will be DVC. Probably just the units in front of the DVC side.

 

[Royal Consort]

I doubt all of the "bungalows/treehouses" will be DVC. Probably just the units in front of the DVC side.

It waits to be seen but I don't see how they cannot be DVC (every bungalow has been so far). It makes business sense: sell loads more points, increase profit, and when the cabins aren't used with points Disney gets the added bonus of breakage and renting them out for cash. Double dip happiness for Disney.

 

[ehh]

I will continue to buy resorts with below average MFs only.

This is slightly myopic, similar to how primarily considering upfront cost is myopic.

Limiting yourself to below average MFs may arbitrarily limit your enjoyment.

1) Aside from the basic "what if you love a resort with above average dues?" question, dues are only part of the calculation for ongoing lifetime expenditure. The other part is points owned. Points owned is basically 1:1 to points used for an informed/motivated owner, and points used scales mostly with nights stayed and the point charts.

A resort with similar dues but a higher points chart (say, BLT vs. Saratoga) will mean more yearly expenses for the same stays. Of course they are very different products, and that's exactly my point. If yearly cost is a motivating factor, total yearly cost for each product/experience is what should matter, not just one dimension of the calculation.

Huge exception to this: if you use your points only at non-home resorts, then minimizing dues per point is a near-primary motivation.

(if you meant you'll only buy resorts with below after yearly costs, then you're arbitrarily limiting yourself to the resorts with friendly point charts and probably excluding all future resorts until they age)

2) We simply can't predict lifetime dues patterns. OKW is currently one of the highest WDW resorts despite a history pointing in the other direction. Copper Creek's young tenure has seen it shift from the higher side to middle of the pack, who knows where it will go. AKV is a safe bet to stay on the high side due to animal wellness and housing, but everything else is somewhat unpredictable.

 

[ehh]

It waits to be seen but I don't see how they cannot be DVC (every bungalow has been so far). It makes business sense: sell loads more points, increase profit, and when the cabins aren't used with points Disney gets the added bonus of breakage and renting them out for cash. Double dip happiness for Disney.

Agreed that Disney is probably pretty happy with how things have gone with Bungalows/Cabins with this model.

But they'd be even happier if they were selling studios instead of bungalows on cash. The $/pt for a night stay at a Bungalow or Cabin is actually not great for Disney selling them on cash. They make more money converting studios to cash reservations for the same number of points.
Polynesian:

	Week of March 15	Week of May 17	Week of October 4	Week of December 6
Bungalow	Rack Rate: $24706 Points: 1174 $ / point: 21.04	Rack Rate: $20915 Points: 993 $ / point: 21.06	Rack Rate: $20696 Points: 874 $ / point: 23.68	Rack Rate: $23287 Points: 841 $ / point: 27.69
Standard View Studio	Rack Rate: $4964 Points: 169 $ / point: 29.37 (+39.6%)	Rack Rate: $4753 Points: 153 $ / point: 31.07 (+47.5%)	Rack Rate: $4599 Points: 130 $ / point: 35.38 (+49.4%)	Rack Rate: $4958 Points: 118 $ / point: $42.02 (+51.7%)

Copper Creek:

	Week of March 15	Week of May 17	Week of October 4	Week of December 6
Cabin	Rack Rate: $20257 Points: 885 $ / point: 22.89	Rack Rate: $17273 Points: 790 $ / point: 21.86	Rack Rate: $16952 Points: 688 $ / point: 24.64	Rack Rate: $18568 Points: 639 $ / point: 29.06
Studio	Rack Rate: $4664 Points: 127 $ / point: 36.72 (+60.4%)	Rack Rate: $3933 Points: 120 $ / point: 32.78 (+49.9%)	Rack Rate: $3869 Points: 107 $ / point: 36.16 (+46.7%)	Rack Rate: $4247 Points: 107 $ / point: $39.69 (+36.6%)
1 Bedroom	Rack Rate: $6759 Points: 271 $ / point: 24.94 (+9%)	Rack Rate: $5447 Points: 255 $ / point: 21.36 (-2.3%)	Rack Rate: $5779 Points: 218 $ / point: 26.51 (+7.6%)	Rack Rate: $5956 Points: 204 $ / point: 29.20 (+0.5%)
2 Bedroom	Rack Rate: $12118 Points: 350 $ / point: 34.62 (+51.3%)	Rack Rate: $10011 Points: 318 $ / point: 31.48 (+44%)	Rack Rate: $9453 Points: 278 $ / point: 34.00 (+38%)	Rack Rate: $10873 Points: 269 $ / point: 40.42 (+39.1%)
3BR Grand Villa	Rack Rate: $21379 Points: 936 $ / point: 22.84 (-0.2%)	Rack Rate: $18225 Points: 839 $ / point: 21.72 (-0.6%)	Rack Rate: $17897 Points: 737 $ / point: 24.28 (-1.4%)	Rack Rate: $19603 Points: 688 $ / point: 28.49 (-2%)

tl;dr: Disney makes the most money converting breakage points to Studio/2BR cash bookings. Converting early December to cash bookings is more beneficial to them than other times of year I semi-randomly selected.

Of course, if Disney is returning to the cabin/bungalow model with Reflections, then they think it has merit to continue, so they are happy with it.

 

[striker1064]

The studio issue at CCV was the reason I didn't buy there as we only need a studio for the 2 of us and travel in the fall. I also didn't want to walk reservations for 50 years. The reason you gave above is why I didn't wait to buy Reflections (even though I think I may like it).

I hasten to add that with any more point heavy bungalows, the system will be stretched even further at 7 months (particularly in the fall). If you require studios, better hope you like your home resort.

We were in the same boat with CCV - just 2 of us, mostly want to travel in the fall. We went with a runDisney fixed week for Wine and Dine. It's served us well so far and still has flexibility. Reflections has us intrigued. We'd likely do the same thing (or just a typical fixed week since they've discontinued RD fixed weeks) to shield us from the studio availability issue.

 

[jerseyduke]

I doubt all of the "bungalows/treehouses" will be DVC. Probably just the units in front of the DVC side.

want to bet on this one?

1. They have yet to do otherwise. They could have build the Bora Bora Bungalows 20 years ago. Doing so as a DVC entity mitigated 100% of the risk. And they do extend to the non DVC part of the Poly, covering the part of the Hawaii Long House

2. If they are all DVC, Disney does not pay for their upkeep if they go unrented. As of now, 100% of April is available in both Bora Bora and Cascade Cabins. Until April about 50% of Bora Bora is still available, CC does have less availability. That is a lot of potential unrented rooms that Disney could have to pay for if the stay on the case side of things.

3. Disnery profit is guaranteed if they make them part of DVC. Plus they still get to rent them and generate a whole bunch of breakage income.

I suppose its possible the cash side gets a few, but I would be blown away it its more than 20% of them. The Bora Bora ones go unoccupied too often. - Disney does not get extra $ when this happens, but they also do not get the extra maintenance expense.

But we shall see. Disney does know how much cash demand they are getting for those 2 accommodations and we do not.

 

[jerseyduke]

It waits to be seen but I don't see how they cannot be DVC (every bungalow has been so far). It makes business sense: sell loads more points, increase profit, and when the cabins aren't used with points Disney gets the added bonus of breakage and renting them out for cash. Double dip happiness for Disney.

Exactly! Zero risk, guaranteed profit.

 

[ClemTig]

want to bet on this one?

1. They have yet to do otherwise. They could have build the Bora Bora Bungalows 20 years ago. Doing so as a DVC entity mitigated 100% of the risk. And they do extend to the non DVC part of the Poly, covering the part of the Hawaii Long House

2. If they are all DVC, Disney does not pay for their upkeep if they go unrented. As of now, 100% of April is available in both Bora Bora and Cascade Cabins. Until April about 50% of Bora Bora is still available, CC does have less availability. That is a lot of potential unrented rooms that Disney could have to pay for if the stay on the case side of things.

3. Disnery profit is guaranteed if they make them part of DVC. Plus they still get to rent them and generate a whole bunch of breakage income.

I suppose its possible the cash side gets a few, but I would be blown away it its more than 20% of them. The Bora Bora ones go unoccupied too often. - Disney does not get extra $ when this happens, but they also do not get the extra maintenance expense.

But we shall see. Disney does know how much cash demand they are getting for those 2 accommodations and we do not.

No, I don't want to bet at all on this. I guess I'm not the most suspicious of Disney's intentions. I can tell you this, if I don't like the deal when it is revealed, we won't buy. And it seems with each new resort the deal gets worse. I may go out in 2060 with BLT.

 

[Royal Consort]

We were in the same boat with CCV - just 2 of us, mostly want to travel in the fall. We went with a runDisney fixed week for Wine and Dine. It's served us well so far and still has flexibility. Reflections has us intrigued. We'd likely do the same thing (or just a typical fixed week since they've discontinued RD fixed weeks) to shield us from the studio availability issue.

I think a fixed week is a smart move. I would buy one if I was adding on at Reflections (I am going to hold out for DLH). Although we flirted with a FW at CCV we opted for one at DRR in a standard studio. If I need to change at least I have a bit more flexibility with the number of preferred studios there.

 

[RachStu]

No, I don't want to bet at all on this. I guess I'm not the most suspicious of Disney's intentions. I can tell you this, if I don't like the deal when it is revealed, we won't buy. And it seems with each new resort the deal gets worse. I may go out in 2060 with BLT.

How old will you be then?! My husband will be 96 and I'll be 81 . Not sure we'll still be going to Disney!

 

[ClemTig]

How old will you be then?! My husband will be 96 and I'll be 81 . Not sure we'll still be going to Disney!

He robbed the cradle, huh? I’ll be 97. I think it’s my kids or grandkids at that point.

 

[RachStu]

He robbed the cradle, huh? I’ll be 97. I think it’s my kids or grandkids at that point.

Not quite

 

[Brianstl]

The maintenance fees will be higher rest assured and it has been stated in some other threads but RIV does not pay for the Skyliner.

RIV pays for skyliner service and bus service just like BCV pays for boat and bus service.

 

[AKNOTTS66]

The studio issue at CCV was the reason I didn't buy there as we only need a studio for the 2 of us and travel in the fall. I also didn't want to walk reservations for 50 years. The reason you gave above is why I didn't wait to buy Reflections (even though I think I may like it).

I hasten to add that with any more point heavy bungalows, the system will be stretched even further at 7 months (particularly in the fall). If you require studios, better hope you like your home resort.

Yeah but from what ive heard some, it can be hard to even get a studio at ccv at 11 months at times so loving your home resort might not be enough! Lol

 

[The Jackal]

Agreed that Disney is probably pretty happy with how things have gone with Bungalows/Cabins with this model.

But they'd be even happier if they were selling studios instead of bungalows on cash. The $/pt for a night stay at a Bungalow or Cabin is actually not great for Disney selling them on cash. They make more money converting studios to cash reservations for the same number of points.
Polynesian:

	Week of March 15	Week of May 17	Week of October 4	Week of December 6
Bungalow	Rack Rate: $24706 Points: 1174 $ / point: 21.04	Rack Rate: $20915 Points: 993 $ / point: 21.06	Rack Rate: $20696 Points: 874 $ / point: 23.68	Rack Rate: $23287 Points: 841 $ / point: 27.69
Standard View Studio	Rack Rate: $4964 Points: 169 $ / point: 29.37 (+39.6%)	Rack Rate: $4753 Points: 153 $ / point: 31.07 (+47.5%)	Rack Rate: $4599 Points: 130 $ / point: 35.38 (+49.4%)	Rack Rate: $4958 Points: 118 $ / point: $42.02 (+51.7%)

Copper Creek:

	Week of March 15	Week of May 17	Week of October 4	Week of December 6
Cabin	Rack Rate: $20257 Points: 885 $ / point: 22.89	Rack Rate: $17273 Points: 790 $ / point: 21.86	Rack Rate: $16952 Points: 688 $ / point: 24.64	Rack Rate: $18568 Points: 639 $ / point: 29.06
Studio	Rack Rate: $4664 Points: 127 $ / point: 36.72 (+60.4%)	Rack Rate: $3933 Points: 120 $ / point: 32.78 (+49.9%)	Rack Rate: $3869 Points: 107 $ / point: 36.16 (+46.7%)	Rack Rate: $4247 Points: 107 $ / point: $39.69 (+36.6%)
1 Bedroom	Rack Rate: $6759 Points: 271 $ / point: 24.94 (+9%)	Rack Rate: $5447 Points: 255 $ / point: 21.36 (-2.3%)	Rack Rate: $5779 Points: 218 $ / point: 26.51 (+7.6%)	Rack Rate: $5956 Points: 204 $ / point: 29.20 (+0.5%)
2 Bedroom	Rack Rate: $12118 Points: 350 $ / point: 34.62 (+51.3%)	Rack Rate: $10011 Points: 318 $ / point: 31.48 (+44%)	Rack Rate: $9453 Points: 278 $ / point: 34.00 (+38%)	Rack Rate: $10873 Points: 269 $ / point: 40.42 (+39.1%)
3BR Grand Villa	Rack Rate: $21379 Points: 936 $ / point: 22.84 (-0.2%)	Rack Rate: $18225 Points: 839 $ / point: 21.72 (-0.6%)	Rack Rate: $17897 Points: 737 $ / point: 24.28 (-1.4%)	Rack Rate: $19603 Points: 688 $ / point: 28.49 (-2%)

tl;dr: Disney makes the most money converting breakage points to Studio/2BR cash bookings. Converting early December to cash bookings is more beneficial to them than other times of year I semi-randomly selected.

Of course, if Disney is returning to the cabin/bungalow model with Reflections, then they think it has merit to continue, so they are happy with it.

This is true, but they might have a studio or two to rent for cash and 12 bungalows to rent. For some reason they know they need a higher ratios of studios, but do not make resorts with more.