2019 Dues

[CarolMN]

skier-pete, your data (just like Google), has ruined more good arguments!

 

[skier_pete]

skier-pete, your data (just like Google), has ruined more good arguments!

Oh there's still a lot of arguing to be done!

 

[Dean Marino]

.

 

[skier_pete]

Excellent data. Tells me I have likely overestimated BRV dues increase rates... I tend to assume 5% per year .

Now, what would be REALLY interesting? Something similar for Main Hotel Rack Rates . The concept being to SAVE money, not eliminate cost . ALL WDW Hotel costs have, and will continue to, inflate .

The very BEST way to save a ton of money? Don't go .

I suppose someone could go out and do that....but it won't be me.

I did a quick search - a water view room at POR during value season (january) in 2005 was $145 a night. in 2017 a pool view room was $232 a night / $253 on weekends. 62% or 75% increase, or average across the week 65% increase.

Randomly selecting BCV in the same time frame from $4.27/pt to $6.44/pt - a 51% increase - so less on a % basis.

But if we also look at the weekly rates. POR went from $1,141.87 per week (with tax) to $1.874.25 per week (with tax) - a 65% increase but a pure dollar increase of $732.38.
A week in January at BCV costs 107 points - so a week went from $456.89 per week to $689.08 per week - a 51% cost increase of only a $232.19.

The important thing with DVC is to remember the rule of compounding - if one rate is starting from a lower base value, while the rate of increase can be similar, the actual cost gets further and further apart.

 

[lovin'fl]

This is the part of the chart I care about...

**** OKW**BWV**HHI**
2019*7.5%*9.5%*11%**

Not great.

 

[LënuSëkahsëni]

OK folks - I got tired of the lack of real data presented in this thread - so here you go.
First Table shows the dues for every resort for every year in existence. Aulani and VB had a "subsidized dues" rate that I couldn't be bothered to figure out, so I ignored it. Note this table is in dollars / point.

Thanks for the table skier_pete! If I could find all the information I'd like to put together a table of annual dues with actual taxes. Since I own at CCV, I paid $7.2625/pt for my 2018 dues (estimated taxes), but only $5.4903/pt after the actual taxes values were announced (I'm assuming the difference will be credited on my 2019 dues statement).

 

[Mumof4mice]

OK folks - I got tired of the lack of real data presented in this thread - so here you go.

First Table shows the dues for every resort for every year in existence. Aulani and VB had a "subsidized dues" rate that I couldn't be bothered to figure out, so I ignored it. Note this table is in dollars / point.

View attachment 369234

Second table below indicates the year-over-year increase as a percentage of the previous year. The TOP row shows the average increase for that resort.
Most interesting is that the averages across the board are pretty consistent between 3.5 and 4.5%, which a few lower, and a one (BLT) higher.

View attachment 369235

The last bit I tried was graphing the changes to see if you could see an obvious trend of increasing dues over time. Without doing some fairly rigorous statistical analysis, I would say the answer is "maybe". Clearly this last year there is a very unusual anomaly. There was a definite trend in the late nineties of dues staying steady - but since then it seems like MOST resorts stay between 3.5 and 5%, with the occasional outlier each year. (For instance 2011 saw a sharp spike in BLT an AKV dues while most of the other resorts stayed at 4 % or lower. The only comparable year seems to be 2006, where all the resorts spiked in dues and the average increase was 6.9%, whereas this year was 7.6%. Again, typically the year-over-year average increase is about 3.5-4.5%.

View attachment 369238

Though it probably folly to try and predict the future with the past trends - but the data does show that this year is an extreme anomaly that is outside of anything that has been seen historically. Data says it is unlikely that increases of this magnitude will be the new normal.

Love your work @skier_pete !

skier-pete, your data (just like Google), has ruined more good arguments!

Yeah, doesn't he know that the per night cost of rooms is going up by one Vente Orange Mocha Frappeccino? On top of which I still have to tip housekeeping a pool bar margarita? Serious budget blowouts, worthy of lively debate, are at stake here!

 

[Buzzro]

Thank you for that info. It really helped me fill in all the gaps to my records.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Thank you for that info. It really helped me fill in all the gaps to my records.

I always like to tout the resource center threads that are stickies at the top of all the DVC forums. This information is also in them Along with a little bit of other historical information.

 

[skier_pete]

I always like to tout the resource center threads that are stickies at the top of all the DVC forums. This information is also in them Along with a little bit of other historical information.

Much of my information (pre-2014) came from that thread. The only problem was no easy way to spreadsheet it.

 

[lovin'fl]

Love your work @skier_pete !



Yeah, doesn't he know that the per night cost of rooms is going up by one Vente Orange Mocha Frappeccino? On top of which I still have to tip housekeeping a pool bar margarita? Serious budget blowouts, worthy of lively debate, are at stake here!

My dues went up $376. So that's about 50 glasses of wine, while dining out, I have to forgo. That's almost ALL I order in a year. (but, yeah, if I can afford 650 points and dues for 650 points, then I can still manage a couple glasses of wine a month)

 

[Dean Marino]

.

 

[lovin'fl]

$376 with 650 points? I wish we had 650 points . I envy you... just the two of us, older? 270 is plenty for 2 trips per year from MI .

Now - $375 sounds like a lot.... but that's about 58 cents per point . Just us.... we're making out like BANDITS at the WL. Having hit "break even", our nightly room cost at BRV is about $125/night, vs about $400/night, discounted, Main Hotel. Roughly 30% of WDW's best DISCOUNT prices .

In contrast? Each 9 day trip, twice per year, is now about $7000.00. Used to be about $4000.00.
What changed?

It wasn't DVC.... it was the cost of Air Travel, Dining (we hit a lot of SIGs), Pet siting, Airport Parking..... all the OTHER stuff.

Six years ago, we attacked our "rate limiting cost" - LODGING. Today? We probably have a NEW "rate limiting cost" - just have to determine what this is, then attack THAT.

...because we are going to GO ANYWAY . Until my legs fall off .

That's a good point about finding the new rate limiting cost. I think it's everything...travel, park tickets, dining AND the DVC. It all jumped in cost. I suppose we could stay DVC but skip parks to save that cost and cook in our DVC kitchens to save that cost. My family already drives to save the cost of airfare. Honestly, we wont change anything except maybe drop from 3 weeks a year to 2 and do those in 11 months with AP and then wait to buy new AP a year later. I think all vacay options have climbed in cost...cruises, all inclusives, beach rentals...etc. So might as well go where you like.

 

[crisi]

My dues went up $376. So that's about 50 glasses of wine, while dining out, I have to forgo. That's almost ALL I order in a year. (but, yeah, if I can afford 650 points and dues for 650 points, then I can still manage a couple glasses of wine a month)

Maybe you can't afford 650 points. It seems strange to begrudge someone making $13 an hour - not really even a living wage, while you have about $100k worth of DVC points and can afford to eat out often enough to drink 50 $7 glasses of wine - at places that serve wine.

 

[lovin'fl]

Maybe you can't afford 650 points. It seems strange to begrudge someone making $13 an hour - not really even a living wage, while you have about $100k worth of DVC points and can afford to eat out often enough to drink 50 $7 glasses of wine - at places that serve wine.

Let us not forget how much the Mouse rakes in. I think my little contribution (what I've spent with the Mouse) is a tiny drop in the bucket, yet they can't pay decent wages. I'd say the low wage angst should be aimed their way. Not mine. I am in full agreement that the Mouse should pay higher wages (which would help keep better staff who would, in turn, provide better service). But the Mouse knows, down to a science, what level of service they need to provide and how much they need to pay to get that. They know we will keep coming with X level of service (and I am guessing that X level is a low level). So don't twist it to me being a monster who begrudges workers from earning a living wage.

 

[Madame]

Let us not forget how much the Mouse rakes in. I think my little contribution (what I've spent with the Mouse) is a tiny drop in the bucket, yet they can't pay decent wages. I'd say the low wage angst should be aimed their way. Not mine. I am in full agreement that the Mouse should pay higher wages (which would help keep better staff who would, in turn, provide better service). But the Mouse knows, down to a science, what level of service they need to provide and how much they need to pay to get that. They know we will keep coming with X level of service (and I am guessing that X level is a low level). So don't twist it to me being a monster who begrudges workers from earning a living wage.

& if the FB group I follow is any indication housekeeping is raking in the (mostly likely non-declared) tips. I couldn’t believe how many people on a thread the other day were leaving serious money for housekeeping. Many have no intention of lowering the amount given the new minimum wage.

We bought into DVC to save money. I definitely don’t begrudge anyone a living wage (daughter of a housecleaner & long haul trucker & worker of many field and restaurant jobs), but I have a feeling housekeeping in general is already making a decent amount in tips.

 

[lovin'fl]

& if the FB group I follow is any indication housekeeping is raking in the (mostly likely non-declared) tips. I couldn’t believe how many people on a thread the other day were leaving serious money for housekeeping. Many have no intention of lowering the amount given the new minimum wage.

We bought into DVC to save money. I definitely don’t begrudge anyone a living wage (daughter of a housecleaner & long haul trucker & worker of many field and restaurant jobs), but I have a feeling housekeeping in general is already making a decent amount in tips.

I tip them, though probably not a large amount. I leave $10-15 (and typically we do 3-6 nights). Not sure if I will continue. I usually leave the unit tidy too (put all sheets and towels in pile, wash dishes and put away, trash collected, etc). My DS works at a front desk in a hotel, of a popular chain, and he doesn't even get paid $13/hour (and will have a degree in hospitality in May as well as having worked at this hotel for a year).

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I tip them, though probably not a large amount. I leave $10-15 (and typically we do 3-6 nights). Not sure if I will continue. I usually leave the unit tidy too (put all sheets and towels in pile, wash dishes and put away, trash collected, etc). My DS works at a front desk in a hotel, of a popular chain, and he doesn't even get paid $13/hour (and will have a degree in hospitality in May as well as having worked at this hotel for a year).

& if the FB group I follow is any indication housekeeping is raking in the (mostly likely non-declared) tips. I couldn’t believe how many people on a thread the other day were leaving serious money for housekeeping. Many have no intention of lowering the amount given the new minimum wage.

We bought into DVC to save money. I definitely don’t begrudge anyone a living wage (daughter of a housecleaner & long haul trucker & worker of many field and restaurant jobs), but I have a feeling housekeeping in general is already making a decent amount in tips.

If employees in housekeeping at Disney are now earning a "living wage," we will not continue to tip housekeeping at Disney. I know plenty of people who work for less than $13/hour without tips. We usually tip $10/day, a times more if we like the service, but $10/day minimum. I find that union negotiations result in people making less-- and losing jobs- in the long term. I worked for years as a waiter and no one I worked with wanted to touch a union. You always make more with tips than a "living wage." The corporation where DH works has some people working in a specific location who are unionized. Many of the unionized employees recently begged the overarching corporation to get out of their union deal to get the benefits regular employees have. Guess what. No dice. They are stuck with their "great" union deal.

 

[Orsino]

I can't speak for housekeepers, but I believe a guaranteed wage is more desirable than uncertain tipping; and unlike restaurant tipping, housekeeping tipping isn't as standard.

Also, the amounts reported as housekeeping tips are biased. People love to post how generous they are so we are more likely to see generous tipping on boards like this or FB. The people who are not leaving tips are not posting about it. I'm not even sure I'd know housekeeping tipping was a thing if I hadn't read it here.

 

[bumbershoot]

Vente Orange Mocha Frappeccino

Oh that sounds heavenly. Not the venti part; I’d be flying for hours from the sugar. But the orange mocha part. Yum.

My dues went up $376. So that's about 50 glasses of wine, while dining out, I have to forgo. That's almost ALL I order in a year. (but, yeah, if I can afford 650 points and dues for 650 points, then I can still manage a couple glasses of wine a month)

650 points. Wowzers. Sigh...

& if the FB group I follow is any indication housekeeping is raking in the (mostly likely non-declared) tips. I couldn’t believe how many people on a thread the other day were leaving serious money for housekeeping. Many have no intention of lowering the amount given the new minimum wage.

We bought into DVC to save money. I definitely don’t begrudge anyone a living wage (daughter of a housecleaner & long haul trucker & worker of many field and restaurant jobs), but I have a feeling housekeeping in general is already making a decent amount in tips.

But that’s the people who tipped. You’re not hearing from the many many others who don’t tip at all. I know many people who don’t even know that tipping housekeepers anywhere is a thing.

If employees in housekeeping at Disney are now earning a "living wage," we will not continue to tip housekeeping at Disney.

Well, it’s been discussed a lot in the Reaorts page over the years, but Disney housekeeping is not supposed to be a tipped position. The housekeepers know this going in. Any tip they receive I’m sure is appreciated, because it’s not something they should expect from their employment.