Any guess on what dues will look like this year?

I was referring to the additional cleaning needed And safety protocols once they open back up. They will absolutely have sanitizing procedures that will be needed. No buses, but all other areas.

Also, getting rooms back to occupancy after being vacant so long can require extra cleaning and maintenance too because dormant rooms can end up with problems.
It’s not open, DVC has roughly 12-15% of the rooms. We’re not responsible for sanitizing the whole place when it opens. The taxes and other points are valid though at this point I’d hope business interruption insurance might kick in since the government is mandating closure, not an act of god.
 
It’s not open, DVC has roughly 12-15% of the rooms. We’re not responsible for sanitizing the whole place when it opens. The taxes and other points are valid though at this point I’d hope business interruption insurance might kick in since the government is mandating closure, not an act of god.

DVC doesn’t have to carry business interruption ..not sure if they do or not..and all is have read is most companies aren’t covering.

Again, I’m not talking about extra cleaning of hotel side . Just DVC. But if only DVC is open they now have to cover common areas which is normally split. We really don’t know how that will work.

That is why at Jambo there are no hotel services like QS and store, etc. Disney wasn’t going to pay for something when they have no guests. DVC may have been forced to pay for it all with no hotel guests, given Kidani has them. We don’t even know for sure how shared expenses are working at WDW resorts for the time the hotel side was And is shut.

We are all speculating and I am not convinced for those two resorts it will be that large.
 
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It’s not open, DVC has roughly 12-15% of the rooms. We’re not responsible for sanitizing the whole place when it opens. The taxes and other points are valid though at this point I’d hope business interruption insurance might kick in since the government is mandating closure, not an act of god.

I work in Insurance. Unless they have some kind of Specialty coverage, Business Interruption does not apply. There has to be a covered physical loss before BI applies. Fire, Wind, etc. Most policies also have a bacteria and virus exclusion.
 
I work in Insurance. Unless they have some kind of Specialty coverage, Business Interruption does not apply. There has to be a covered physical loss before BI applies. Fire, Wind, etc. Most policies also have a bacteria and virus exclusion.
It’s true that a pandemic would not be covered but the government is forcing them to close at this point. Disney is prepared to open and has elsewhere with similar stats is tics or worse health wise. Now, I’m sure the insurance will play the pandemic card, but the government has closed them, not the virus.
I work in Insurance. Unless they have some kind of Specialty coverage, Business Interruption does not apply. There has to be a covered physical loss before BI applies. Fire, Wind, etc. Most policies also have a bacteria and virus exclusion.
that’s very true as far as pandemics and acts of god. However, what is keeping them closed at this point. None of those things right? It’s a random system that seems to be going to court. Their business is interrupted and it’s outside of their control. They may not have that insurance and honestly I wouldn’t blame if they didn’t since they’ve never closed before really except when Kennedy was shot I think? Anyway, it’s not opening this year or anytime soon and people have paid 2020 dues in full for <3 months. My guess is by the time they open, the dues will amount to what has already been paid (after calculating credits) and that’s if they can open around Memorial Day. But we’ll see, others have made very good points about costs that are not associated with being open like property taxes.
 


With my crystal ball I foresee no credits for WDW resorts, probably a massive increase if DVD has bought a new, super expensive insurance policy.
 
A number of expenses are still ongoing at both VGC and Aulani. Maintenance is about 15% of budgets, and may actually be higher for unoccupied resorts (plumbing is an issue; read up on Legionnaires' Disease for details there). Security is probably stable at about 3%. Insurance is 5-7% of dues. I would assume some of utilities is still a legitimate expense. Management fee is about 11%. Property taxes, which haven't changed despite the resorts being vacant. Contrirbution to cap reserves also is not going to credit, as that is how they pay refurbishment over rtime.
All great points. I would also add that at shared resorts, the DVC wing is open while the cash portion is closed. How do they calculate expenses for those resorts? Will AKV owners pay for all expenses to keep Jambo house open (air conditioning and cleaning of the common areas, pool...) while the cash side is closed?
 
It’s true that a pandemic would not be covered but the government is forcing them to close at this point. Disney is prepared to open and has elsewhere with similar stats is tics or worse health wise. Now, I’m sure the insurance will play the pandemic card, but the government has closed them, not the virus.

that’s very true as far as pandemics and acts of god. However, what is keeping them closed at this point. None of those things right? It’s a random system that seems to be going to court. Their business is interrupted and it’s outside of their control. They may not have that insurance and honestly I wouldn’t blame if they didn’t since they’ve never closed before really except when Kennedy was shot I think? Anyway, it’s not opening this year or anytime soon and people have paid 2020 dues in full for <3 months. My guess is by the time they open, the dues will amount to what has already been paid (after calculating credits) and that’s if they can open around Memorial Day. But we’ll see, others have made very good points about costs that are not associated with being open like property taxes.

The government has not told DVCM they can not open VGC, unless I missed it.

They came out with guidelines for theme parks but not timeshares. Having said that, the current situation is what it is and they have decided to close,

Also, DVCM has continued to allow VGC owners to use points elsewhere which is one option for loss of use. Not sureif that plays a role. And, of course, nothing requires them to credit owners. It can go in capital reserves, so nothing to say all will be given back either considering at the time of the statement in April, I doubt the figured it’d be this long.

Honestly, if I was a VGC owner, I’d be contacting them and asking what is preventing them from opening, even without hotel, But, they can’t force WDPR to open their area and maybe the costs to owners to run it without that side open is too great...just guessing now.

But, if any resort is going to have a decent credit, it will be VGC.
 
The government has not told DVCM they can not open VGC, unless I missed it.

They came out with guidelines for theme parks but not timeshares. Having said that, the current situation is what it is and they have decided to close,

Also, DVCM has continued to allow VGC owners to use points elsewhere which is one option for loss of use. Not sureif that plays a role. And, of course, nothing requires them to credit owners. It can go in capital reserves, so nothing to say all will be given back either considering at the time of the statement in April, I doubt the figured it’d be this long.

Honestly, if I was a VGC owner, I’d be contacting them and asking what is preventing them from opening, even without hotel, But, they can’t force WDPR to open their area and maybe the costs to owners to run it without that side open is too great...just guessing now.

But, if any resort is going to have a decent credit, it will be VGC.
this seems foggy, but it also seems like CA doesn't want people outside of CA traveling to CA. I guess that's a theme park guideline on the zip code thing but we wouldn't even be allowed into Disneyland currently if it was open. Or at least that's what they're saying, I'm skeptical any of that is enforceable practically.

Fair point that the points can be used elsewhere, hard pill to swallow to use GCV points, by far the most valuable in the portfolio on the WDW resorts that are going to have 7 month availability... That's not really their problem, I get that, but you could see some dumping of points on the market while the price holds and swapping into other resorts that will be open. I certainly wouldn't be buying any right now even with the obvious observation that in 5 years it will hardly matter. Big backlog of points coming. I do wonder if the way they've been treated here is going to affect the DLT build at all. They've already canceled one resort because they got tired of dealing with Anaheim, now the state is proving difficult. Plenty of land at World. If they ever check these boards, yacht club villas might become a thing. LOL.
 
VGC can open under CA guidelines. Hotels and timeshares are allowed to operate, and were allowed to reopen June 12 if approved by their county. So if Orange County said they could open, they could. I don't know if OC has said they can, or if they've asked. There are definitely hotels and timeshares in OC that are open.

California really doesn't want people traveling in, but timeshares in California are open, as are hotels. Not all of them, but it looks like that is largely a choice of operator.

At this point, I think Disney is not opening VGC because the park isn't open, and there are limited options for activity nearby. That's a Disney choice.
 
VGC can open under CA guidelines. Hotels and timeshares are allowed to operate, and were allowed to reopen June 12 if approved by their county. So if Orange County said they could open, they could. I don't know if OC has said they can, or if they've asked. There are definitely hotels and timeshares in OC that are open.

California really doesn't want people traveling in, but timeshares in California are open, as are hotels. Not all of them, but it looks like that is largely a choice of operator.

At this point, I think Disney is not opening VGC because the park isn't open, and there are limited options for activity nearby. That's a Disney choice.

Which then brings up the catch 22 for VGC owners not local. They open the villas without hotel or park, But travel is discouraged or someone has to quarantine on return,

Is it better for VGC owners to have it stay closed in hopes of reducing costs? Or have DVCM open it regardless and have people complain they can’t go anyway or don’t want to because the rest is shut down.

Being the only DVC there, I think it is a unique case and not an easy one.
 
And to be absolutely clear about it, here is Anaheim's list of what is permitted to operate in Tier One and Tier Two. For the purposes of the tiers, Anaheim does consider VGC under hotels:

https://www.anaheim.net/5523/State-guidelines-for-businesses
(Still have to love the T1 "Body waxing: outdoors only where possible" guideline.)
 
Which then brings up the catch 22 for VGC owners not local. They open the villas without hotel or park, But travel is discouraged or someone has to quarantine on return,

Even for locals, there has to be very limited appeal to staying at the villas right now. The villas make up less than 10% of the Grand Californian. Members would bear higher expenses just to operate services like front desk, pool, bell services, housekeeping in public spaces. For 50 villas it's probably not worth operating the gift shop or restaurants, instead referring guests to nearby DTD. It would be a very watered down experience, before we even get to the shuttered theme parks.

Technically the resort could open and I realize some owners are frustrated with the fact that it has not. Opening the villas now would chew through the operating budget at a higher rate than normal, and (IMO) they will struggle to fill the 50 rooms most nights.

However leaving it closed will almost certainly generate a significant dues credit for owners. There really is no perfect solution.
 
Just curious, technically should VGC owners even be allowed to trade into other resorts given their resort isn't available to be traded back into. From the sounds of it they won't be open till next year at the earliest and maybe not even till the summer. For example what if HH was damaged by a hurricane and was shut for a year or longer, would DVC allow those HH owners to use their points elsewhere, over loading the system?
 
Just curious, technically should VGC owners even be allowed to trade into other resorts given their resort isn't available to be traded back into. From the sounds of it they won't be open till next year at the earliest and maybe not even till the summer. For example what if HH was damaged by a hurricane and was shut for a year or longer, would DVC allow those HH owners to use their points elsewhere, over loading the system?

That die was cast when DVC placed almost no restrictions on owners after the 3+ month closure of all resorts. If someone wanted to force the issue, alleging that VGC owners have no rights to use points elsewhere, I suspect we'd all end up losing something.

Among all 15 resorts, VGC is so small that it's practically a rounding error. Seems like DVC is still gambling that availability will largely take care of itself without mandating point forfeitures due to resort closures. It's the most member-friendly approach, though it won't satisfy everyone.
 
Just curious, technically should VGC owners even be allowed to trade into other resorts given their resort isn't available to be traded back into. From the sounds of it they won't be open till next year at the earliest and maybe not even till the summer. For example what if HH was damaged by a hurricane and was shut for a year or longer, would DVC allow those HH owners to use their points elsewhere, over loading the system?

According to the loss of use section of my RIV POS, it says that one option the board of the condo association can vote to do is continue to allow the trading of points into the system, even though it would create more than a 1:1 ratio of points to rooms.

The other option says something to the effect that they instead allow Owners to book hotels on cash, and then pass along that cost to the owners via a special assessment.

Of course, when that was written, it was probably never meant to be for a long term shut down as no one ever though that would happen.
 
According to the loss of use section of my RIV POS, it says that one option the board of the condo association can vote to do is continue to allow the trading of points into the system, even though it would create more than a 1:1 ratio of points to rooms.

The other option says something to the effect that they instead allow Owners to book hotels on cash, and then pass along that cost to the owners via a special assessment.

Of course, when that was written, it was probably never meant to be for a long term shut down as no one ever though that would happen.

Hopefully they are now thinking about what to do if there is a long term closure. While VGC isn't big enough to have much impact on the system, what happens if a large resort closes for an extended time. Owners aren't going to be happy if different rules are applied to different resorts.
 
It’s not open, DVC has roughly 12-15% of the rooms. We’re not responsible for sanitizing the whole place when it opens. The taxes and other points are valid though at this point I’d hope business interruption insurance might kick in since the government is mandating closure, not an act of god.


The government isnt choosing to keep grand cal closed, Disney is. Ill be requesting a full return of dues relating to the date hotels in Cali were allowed to open.
 

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