Anyone feel like they're not "keeping up with the Jonses"?

I'm not saying it is a valid presumption (in fact, I know it really isn't), but the presumption when it comes to living on SS income is that you don't pay rent; the presumption is that you own your home free & clear by that point in your life.

actually, the spirit of the origins of social security would likely preclude someone from total home ownership (or the concept of being entirely debt free) b/c as fdr said upon signing the social security act in 1935-

"We can never insure one hundred percent of the population against one hundred percent of the hazards and vicissitudes of life, but we have tried to frame a law which will give some measure of protection to the average citizen and to his family against the loss of a job and against poverty-ridden old age."

it was not created to be and never has been intended to be a sole support mechanism.
 
actually, the spirit of the origins of social security would likely preclude someone from total home ownership (or the concept of being entirely debt free) b/c as fdr said upon signing the social security act in 1935-

"We can never insure one hundred percent of the population against one hundred percent of the hazards and vicissitudes of life, but we have tried to frame a law which will give some measure of protection to the average citizen and to his family against the loss of a job and against poverty-ridden old age."

it was not created to be and never has been intended to be a sole support mechanism.

Oh, I know what was intended, & I didn't mean to imply that the Feds presume you won't owe rent. What I meant was that laymen who presume that SS income should be adequate are generally thinking that the home will be paid off by the time SS is collected.

To be fair, property taxes *are* often less burdensome for retiree homeowners on fixed incomes. Several states allow for elder exemptions or state tax rebates for principal residence property taxes if retirees have a paid-for home but little income.
 
To be fair, property taxes *are* often less burdensome for retiree homeowners on fixed incomes. Several states allow for elder exemptions or state tax rebates for principal residence property taxes if retirees have a paid-for home but little income.

my state just made changes to their program of this type. instead of an arbitrary income cap across the board for elderly or disabled persons to qualify the new limits take into consideration the higher cost of living in some regions within the state. this makes total sense to me b/c it's the difference between night and day for how much it costs for someone to live in the seattle area as compared to other areas. some may say that a retiree could just move to a lower cost of living area but the reality is with housing shortages and high demand for rentals driving the prices up, even a lower cost of living area could run a retiree more for rental housing than an existing older mortgage if the property taxes are kept at a reasonable rate.
 


Had a weird feeling this weekend. My wife and I have been pretty fortunate with our careers. Certainly not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but we're able to live decent lives, go on a couple of vacations per year. That's always been me. Vacation with my wife and kids has always come first. I mean, we pay our bills and have little to no debt in terms of credit card bills, but neither of us has what we should in our 401k and our savings is really just enough for a rainy day or if we were to need some income for a few months. My attitude has always been "Enjoy life while you can. Tomorrow isn't guaranteed." But as I'm starting to get older, I'm getting the itch to have more money in the bank. The thing is, I don't know if I even know why. Just because other people do? I guess it's possible my priorities are changing and I'm having a tough time trying to satisfy those needs with the needs to travel and do all sorts of fun stuff with my kids.

I don't know. Maybe just a rant. Maybe mid-life crisis. :confused3
My husband works in retirement investments and has had some sad days. People will come in, hoping to retire soon, and he has to break the news. Also, people who lose a spouse and don't have insurance are the most heartbreaking. As a result, we live much lower than our means. My attitude used to be like yours, enjoy! It's hard sometimes. I feel our home is judged, even MIL made a snotty comment the last time she stayed with us that her grandson's home is much grander than ours. Our cars aren't fancy, but we don't have payments. The kids' college money is already in the bank and we could pay our house off today (our only debt) and still have a very comfortable savings. About ten years ago, we had barely anything saved and credit card debt. I highly recommend anyone to save and insure. And don't look at what the neighbors or your friends on Facebook have. A lot of times it's all smoke and mirrors. We have friends that had the most beautiful home, traveled often and always posting pictures of their purchases. We wondered what we were doing wrong? They lost their home to foreclosure a couple of years ago. Start small with saving and it will grow before you know it. Do it before it's too late.
 
My husband works in retirement investments and has had some sad days. People will come in, hoping to retire soon, and he has to break the news. Also, people who lose a spouse and don't have insurance are the most heartbreaking. As a result, we live much lower than our means. My attitude used to be like yours, enjoy! It's hard sometimes. I feel our home is judged, even MIL made a snotty comment the last time she stayed with us that her grandson's home is much grander than ours. Our cars aren't fancy, but we don't have payments. The kids' college money is already in the bank and we could pay our house off today (our only debt) and still have a very comfortable savings. About ten years ago, we had barely anything saved and credit card debt. I highly recommend anyone to save and insure. And don't look at what the neighbors or your friends on Facebook have. A lot of times it's all smoke and mirrors. We have friends that had the most beautiful home, traveled often and always posting pictures of their purchases. We wondered what we were doing wrong? They lost their home to foreclosure a couple of years ago. Start small with saving and it will grow before you know it. Do it before it's too late.
+1000

I couldn't believe the stories my mother told of women who were widowed, and only then found out that they had little to nothing. Even my own dad set up his pension so that it went for 10 years, versus having less, but covering my mom for a lifetime. Mom turned out fine--she didn't have a lot, but she got by, and died leaving her kids a small inheritance. Many of her friends had no clue, and found out the hard way that the pension died with their husband, there was no insurance, and there was precious little savings.
 
Many of her friends had no clue, and found out the hard way that the pension died with their husband, there was no insurance, and there was precious little savings.

Yes, it's bizarre to me how secretive some people can be with their finances.

When my husband's grandfather died we were digging through closets looking for papers because his grandmother thought there was maybe some insurance. There were lots of policies found in different places, but none were still in effect. She also had no idea whether his pension would transfer to her or how much that would be. While cleaning and going through things we kept finding wads of cash hidden in various places that she didn't know about either (and would not have been able to find on her own because she had suffered a stroke and couldn't reach).

My husband and I did some financial advising/education work and there were numerous times where the spouses had absolutely no idea about their partner's finances (life insurance, debt, etc). Some still refused to share the information during the meeting (even though they had asked for us to help). I can't wrap my head around why you wouldn't let your spouse of 20+ years know how much life insurance you have. "It's enough" isn't really helpful for planning. Does that mean it's like $10k and you think that's enough to cover a funeral? Or does that mean it's $1M and will cover several years of your income and pay for the kids to go to college?
 


Yes, it's bizarre to me how secretive some people can be with their finances.

When my husband's grandfather died we were digging through closets looking for papers because his grandmother thought there was maybe some insurance. There were lots of policies found in different places, but none were still in effect. She also had no idea whether his pension would transfer to her or how much that would be. While cleaning and going through things we kept finding wads of cash hidden in various places that she didn't know about either (and would not have been able to find on her own because she had suffered a stroke and couldn't reach).

My husband and I did some financial advising/education work and there were numerous times where the spouses had absolutely no idea about their partner's finances (life insurance, debt, etc). Some still refused to share the information during the meeting (even though they had asked for us to help). I can't wrap my head around why you wouldn't let your spouse of 20+ years know how much life insurance you have. "It's enough" isn't really helpful for planning. Does that mean it's like $10k and you think that's enough to cover a funeral? Or does that mean it's $1M and will cover several years of your income and pay for the kids to go to college?

This blows my mind as well. Our marriage is a 100% open book, and as a nonworking spouse since our kids were born, I made SURE I was running the finances in our household because I was not going to end up one of those clueless spouses if something happened to my husband (military with numerous combat deployments scared me into this mindset).

In my opinion, LIFE INSURANCE should be the #1 priority for anyone who supports anyone else financially. Too many people die either uninsured or underinsured and it's so tragic when that happens and the people left behind struggle because of it. We have plenty of life insurance on each of us (because we have special needs children, it was doubly important). We have stacked term policies, and took out brand new, 7 figure, 30 year term policies when we turned 40 that will carry us through age 70, by which point our investments should exceed the insurance payout. It is literally costing us a couple hundred dollars a month, total, for all 4 insurance policies we have.

Buy early, max out your coverage, is what everyone should do who has others that depend on them.
 
This blows my mind as well. Our marriage is a 100% open book, and as a nonworking spouse since our kids were born, I made SURE I was running the finances in our household because I was not going to end up one of those clueless spouses if something happened to my husband (military with numerous combat deployments scared me into this mindset).
Same (except for the military part.) I also started putting some things in my name only when I realized everything kind of defaulted to his name and people wouldn’t talk to ME. I trust my husband completely but this made me feel really vulnerable. I think married women need to remember to establish themselves as a separate person when it comes to finances and not just “co owner,” “co borrower,” “spouse” etc.
 
This blows my mind as well. Our marriage is a 100% open book, and as a nonworking spouse since our kids were born, I made SURE I was running the finances in our household because I was not going to end up one of those clueless spouses if something happened to my husband (military with numerous combat deployments scared me into this mindset).

In my opinion, LIFE INSURANCE should be the #1 priority for anyone who supports anyone else financially. Too many people die either uninsured or underinsured and it's so tragic when that happens and the people left behind struggle because of it. We have plenty of life insurance on each of us (because we have special needs children, it was doubly important). We have stacked term policies, and took out brand new, 7 figure, 30 year term policies when we turned 40 that will carry us through age 70, by which point our investments should exceed the insurance payout. It is literally costing us a couple hundred dollars a month, total, for all 4 insurance policies we have.

Buy early, max out your coverage, is what everyone should do who has others that depend on them.


Very true! We're past the point of needing life insurance, except...our oldest (DD24) is adamant that, if something happens to both DH and I, she wants to raise her minor siblings (DS13 and DD16, with a bonus DS22, who has some special needs). If we were hit by a bus, she would quit her job, move into our current house (800 miles away from where she lives), and settle in down here. So, we have life insurance that names her as the beneficiary, since she would be sacrificing so much and would need a nest egg to keep things on track. Once our youngest graduates HS, we'll drop the insurance.
 
This blows my mind as well. Our marriage is a 100% open book, and as a nonworking spouse since our kids were born, I made SURE I was running the finances in our household because I was not going to end up one of those clueless spouses if something happened to my husband (military with numerous combat deployments scared me into this mindset).

In my opinion, LIFE INSURANCE should be the #1 priority for anyone who supports anyone else financially. Too many people die either uninsured or underinsured and it's so tragic when that happens and the people left behind struggle because of it. We have plenty of life insurance on each of us (because we have special needs children, it was doubly important). We have stacked term policies, and took out brand new, 7 figure, 30 year term policies when we turned 40 that will carry us through age 70, by which point our investments should exceed the insurance payout. It is literally costing us a couple hundred dollars a month, total, for all 4 insurance policies we have.

Buy early, max out your coverage, is what everyone should do who has others that depend on them.

too many people fail to get life insurance on stay at home spouses and the results can be tragic if that spouse passes. a friend dated a man whose late wife had been a sahm. the woman was tragically killed in an auto accident leaving her husband and 6'ish aged son. no life insurance on sahm b/c they just focused on the income that would be lost if something happened to the wage earner dh. they didn't think about the monetary cost to replace all the things mom did-esp. when it came to childcare for their son. before school/after school/weekends the husband worked/school holidays and vacations let alone all the sick days little kids are prone to have early in their school years. between that and finding out that it cost so much more to grab prepared meals vs. the couponing/sale shopping/scratch cooking the wife did to keep costs down it was a huge wake up call and financially devastating.

i realize that allot of people are on tight budgets but they are almost always better off in a tragedy to have shortchanged their roth or other retirement account by that $50 or less a month it costs to have term life insurance on a stay at home parent until those kids are raised at minimum.
 
too many people fail to get life insurance on stay at home spouses and the results can be tragic if that spouse passes. a friend dated a man whose late wife had been a sahm. the woman was tragically killed in an auto accident leaving her husband and 6'ish aged son. no life insurance on sahm b/c they just focused on the income that would be lost if something happened to the wage earner dh. they didn't think about the monetary cost to replace all the things mom did-esp. when it came to childcare for their son. before school/after school/weekends the husband worked/school holidays and vacations let alone all the sick days little kids are prone to have early in their school years. between that and finding out that it cost so much more to grab prepared meals vs. the couponing/sale shopping/scratch cooking the wife did to keep costs down it was a huge wake up call and financially devastating.

i realize that allot of people are on tight budgets but they are almost always better off in a tragedy to have shortchanged their roth or other retirement account by that $50 or less a month it costs to have term life insurance on a stay at home parent until those kids are raised at minimum.

This is super morbid. Being a SAHM is really for the super rich these days. The US doesn’t have enough safety nets like our European peers. Who has money for life insurance on top of everything else?
 
That's absurd. I know families with SAHM who are most certainly not "super rich". They live within their means. And if people can afford name brand apparel, eating out often, or the latest iPhone, then they can afford life insurance. It's about choosing "needs" over "wants".

Yeah. The mom wants to stay at home.
 
This is super morbid. Being a SAHM is really for the super rich these days. The US doesn’t have enough safety nets like our European peers. Who has money for life insurance on top of everything else?
I’m a SAHM and last time I checked I’m not super rich. Not even kinda sorta rich. My DH makes a good living but we decided on me staying home because it would cost more than I could make to put twins in daycare. I can make a penny cry and save like no one’s business.
 
Yeah. The mom wants to stay at home.
This burns me up. It's so demeaning to marriage to assume that one partner makes the decisions in a marriage.

It's true that staying home could be considered a want, not a need. Not everyone can do it. However, childcare is a need and if a couple prioritizes a parent being the one providing that care over the zillion other things they could use money for it's certainly their right. Many people make great financial sacrifices to make that choice simply because it's their priority.
 
too many people fail to get life insurance on stay at home spouses and the results can be tragic if that spouse passes. a friend dated a man whose late wife had been a sahm. the woman was tragically killed in an auto accident leaving her husband and 6'ish aged son. no life insurance on sahm b/c they just focused on the income that would be lost if something happened to the wage earner dh. they didn't think about the monetary cost to replace all the things mom did-esp. when it came to childcare for their son. before school/after school/weekends the husband worked/school holidays and vacations let alone all the sick days little kids are prone to have early in their school years. between that and finding out that it cost so much more to grab prepared meals vs. the couponing/sale shopping/scratch cooking the wife did to keep costs down it was a huge wake up call and financially devastating.

i realize that allot of people are on tight budgets but they are almost always better off in a tragedy to have shortchanged their roth or other retirement account by that $50 or less a month it costs to have term life insurance on a stay at home parent until those kids are raised at minimum.
We had a 20 year term life insurance policy on me for those exact reasons. The term was up this year and I cashed it in for a nice chunk of change, since we are now empty nesters.
 
That's absurd. I know families with SAHM who are most certainly not "super rich". They live within their means. And if people can afford name brand apparel, eating out often, or the latest iPhone, then they can afford life insurance. It's about choosing "needs" over "wants".
We never owned name brand apparel, didn't eat out often, and our phones cost a total of about $200 for all 4 and $10/month each and we could not afford life insurance. It was $45 and only a $100,000 policy. When the 401k reached that level and things like heat increased from $140/month to $800/month, it was cancel both the $45 life insurance and the $50-75 going to 401k to survive.

It's a big difference between the bottom of middle class or working class and the top of middle class, especially when you are talking media depicted middle class which is indeed super rich compared to people who are actually in the middle.
 
This is super morbid. Being a SAHM is really for the super rich these days. The US doesn’t have enough safety nets like our European peers. Who has money for life insurance on top of everything else?
I know people who are stay at home parents because it would cost them more money in daycare costs than it would to not have that additional income.

So for the rich? Nope.
 

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