Are RIV point charts REALLY that might higher?!

Lumpy1106

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
I agree actually. I'm in my early 30's and went with SSR because it was the longest contract I was willing to take. I didn't want the burden in my 70s and 80s of owning a contract with maintenance fees. If I get to that point and still want to own a contract, I can buy a 10 year Riviera contract then.

Having said that, theoretically in 40 years, a 10 year Riviera contract should hold more resale value than a zero year BLT contract.
Unless you can't sell it, you don't want to go to WDW and you still have to pay the MF's. I mean, who knows how much those will be in comparison to what you can get through resale? Once the value drops, it's like any other timeshare. My FIL is going through this with one he owns in perpetuity. We'll probably default on the thing when he passes because we don't want it.
 

crisi

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 25, 2002
4) As others have mentioned, the MF at Riviera were most likely intentionally made high to avoid any large jumps in the first few years. In a few years, the delta between RIV MF and the avg resort MF probably won't be too large. But this is just a guess.
Actually, if past behavior is any indication at all, they estimated dues low so that they can sell the resort. They did get into trouble with this with Aulani, but that doesn't mean they've swung the opposite direction - in part because Hawaii timeshare law is Hawaii timeshare law, and they've been getting away with this in Florida for 20 years without repercussions. It makes no business sense to estimate dues high when what you are trying to do is sell a resort - and Disney isn't interested in managing member expectations on dues - that isn't part of their process at all.
 

skippytx

Bay Lake Tower
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Actually, if past behavior is any indication at all, they estimated dues low so that they can sell the resort. They did get into trouble with this with Aulani, but that doesn't mean they've swung the opposite direction - in part because Hawaii timeshare law is Hawaii timeshare law, and they've been getting away with this in Florida for 20 years without repercussions. It makes no business sense to estimate dues high when what you are trying to do is sell a resort - and Disney isn't interested in managing member expectations on dues - that isn't part of their process at all.
Starting with CCV DVC has been estimating dues pretty close to actual, maybe a little over.

CCV in 2017 was 7.33, and in 2018 it actual went down to 7.26. 2020's proposed dues are 7.45, an increase of 12 cents since 2017.

The local tax assessor is not as Disney friendly as the last one, so they've been going after WDW for increased property tax values. There are lots of lawyers and lawsuits involved. Coupled with the wage increase for cast members, they're overestimating the dues a bit and erring on the side of caution instead of slapping new DVC purchasers with a large dues increase in year 2 or 3. I'm assuming they are doing the same thing at Riv. Since Riv isn't technically done yet, I don't think there's a proper property tax valuation on the property yet. They do have the highest dues of any of the WDW resorts.
 
  • sethschroeder

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 24, 2013
    Just my two cents but wouldn't RIV be considered an Epcot resort? With the skyliner right there it would take maybe 5 minutes to be in the France Pavilion as long as it doesn't break down. HS maybe 10 minutes away with the stop at the Caribbean hub
    Except as I understand it its longer than that (25 mins from HS to Epcot so RIV going to both from the Skyliner would be at least that long). It's like 15 mins from CBR to Epcot.

    You also need to realize the Skyliner terminal is a ways away from a good portion of the rooms. The terminal is on the side of the resort not the middle.

    Done all the breakdowns before but it's like 1/4 to 1/2 mile extra of walking for BWV to the parks and getting to skip the Skyliner all together. (most people walk comfortably 1 mile in 20 mins)

    It is an Epcot resort just doesn't have the proximity to the park like the other two DVC which can walk.

    They are not for several reasons.

    1) Ease of transaction
    2) Ability to stay at "new" resorts
    3) prorated maintenance fees in first year
    4) Ability to pay by credit card and earn reward points
    5) Access to Membership benefits (which if you don't get an AP, is still 10% off food and 20% off merchandise)
    6) Buying late in the use year essentially gets you double points in year 1
    7) Points being available quicker
    8) Lower closing costs
    9) Ability to book cruises/Disney Concierge
    10) etc....

    I'm not suggesting any of these are worth the price of direct. I'm just saying that its not an apples to apples comparison.
    Many of these are offset by dramatically lower price of resale or can be negotiated in to your purchase or based on the contract you select.

    Just want to say the discounts without the AP are basically the same as the Disney Visa.

    I am really lost with " the location is not optimal" line and I am not singling anyone out either because a lot of people use it. Please clarify what is optimal CCV- hardly, SSR - beyond hardly, AKV- so far off the beaten path can't even use the term hardly.
    It's not optimal.

    CCV and RIV are in the same boat. Relying on transportation which gets you from door to park in 20-25 mins likely.

    BWV, BCV, BLT are the most optimal with very short walks to the parks.

    AKV is in the RIV boat specific to AK Park.

    The continued posts about the downfalls of a resort that hasn't even opened boggles the mind given that other resorts have their share. I have taken the Gondola to the Riviera pretty easy and drops you at Epcot's back door so pretty good location if you ask me.
    I mean it's pretty easy to see talking the Skyliner is not as convenient as walking for many of us.

    Then you have another group where RIV doesn't have direct access to MK.

    You can also easily see about 1/5 to 1/3 of CBR rooms are going to be using the RIV Skyliner as it's actually closer for them. This is a station that is a Midway point which relies on empty cars being sent on the line.

    What gets many revved up is the resale restriction though and points chart that points to it being a "prime" resort.
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    To me, the main target market for RIV is someone that is young and will get to use most of the 50 years on the contract so the resale value doesn't matter that much and that want an EPCOT/HS resort.

    I'm definitely not in that group. I won't be able to use 50 years and my daughter might not even use 50 years which means I will be selling eventually, so resale value matters. I also already own at BWV so I don't need another EPOCT/HS resort.
    I agree and it keeps coming up about that you can’t walk to a park. While I love that option, I know and have recently visited with people who can’t or didn’t want to. So, the Skyliner is a good option for people who don’t see walking to parks as a plus.

    It is one of the reasons I ended up buying because my adult kids like Epcot and HS, and felt it is a great location for those parks better than BCV and BWV, because of the Skyliner.

    So, it still all comes down to what one wants out of DVC and resorts and while Rivera is more points for sure, it will be worth it for many. I definitely pay more for a stay to be at a resort if choice, even if it means a few nights less here or there.
     

    DVC_HK

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Aug 6, 2019
    I agree and it keeps coming up about that you can’t walk to a park. While I love that option, I know and have recently visited with people who can’t or didn’t want to. So, the Skyliner is a good option for people who don’t see walking to parks as a plus.

    It is one of the reasons I ended up buying because my adult kids like Epcot and HS, and felt it is a great location for those parks better than BCV and BWV, because of the Skyliner.

    So, it still all comes down to what one wants out of DVC and resorts and while Rivera is more points for sure, it will be worth it for many. I definitely pay more for a stay to be at a resort if choice, even if it means a few nights less here or there.
    We bought here for the same reason about the skyliner. The ride from Epcot which is our favorite park, didn't feel that long and it drops you right at the resort. With it being just my DW and I for a couple of years we wanna take advantage of the tower rooms and it doesn't look like a long walk to hop on from that side of the resort
     

    KAT4DISNEY

    Glad to be a test subject
    Joined
    Mar 17, 2008
    I am really lost with " the location is not optimal" line and I am not singling anyone out either because a lot of people use it. Please clarify what is optimal CCV- hardly, SSR - beyond hardly, AKV- so far off the beaten path can't even use the term hardly.
    I've seen no one who has stated CCV, SSR, AKV etc are optimal locations when stating that Riviera is not either. For myself a location you can walk to a park is an optimal location for Disney. Anything else makes you reliant upon some sort of transporation that can go all wonky and leave you scrambling. It doesn't mean that other resorts aren't appealing as there are things we like at every single resort but optimal is usually used in reference to walking to a park. It's why I don't consider Riviera an Epcot resort in the way that BCV and BWV are - you can't walk there from it.
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    I've seen no one who has stated CCV, SSR, AKV etc are optimal locations when stating that Riviera is not either. For myself a location you can walk to a park is an optimal location for Disney. Anything else makes you reliant upon some sort of transporation that can go all wonky and leave you scrambling. It doesn't mean that other resorts aren't appealing as there are things we like at every single resort but optimal is usually used in reference to walking to a park. It's why I don't consider Riviera an Epcot resort in the way that BCV and BWV are - you can't walk there from it.
    I certainly understand that appeal of walking. I love to do it, but as I have gotten older, and am dealing with health issues, walking to a park is less of an option. I know others who walking is not an option.

    So, if you don’t consider Rivera an Epcot resort because you can’t walk, then really, the only MK resort must be BLT? You can’t walk from VGF or Poly..yet..

    Yes, BWV and BCV are within walking distance to two parks. That is certainly a plus for those that want to walk to parks. If you don’t, then that option, IMO, is meaningless.
     

    KAT4DISNEY

    Glad to be a test subject
    Joined
    Mar 17, 2008
    I certainly understand that appeal of walking. I love to do it, but as I have gotten older, and am dealing with health issues, walking to a park is less of an option. I know others who walking is not an option.

    So, if you don’t consider Rivera an Epcot resort because you can’t walk, then really, the only MK resort must be BLT? You can’t walk from VGF or Poly..yet..

    Yes, BWV and BCV are within walking distance to two parks. That is certainly a plus for those that want to walk to parks. If you don’t, then that option, IMO, is meaningless.
    There is transportation from both those resorts to Epcot just as there is from Riviera. Just no option to walk from Riviera to Epcot.
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    There is transportation from both those resorts to Epcot just as there is from Riviera. Just no option to walk from Riviera to Epcot.
    I know that. But my point was that it has been stated that those two resorts, due to the ability to walk, make it a better location or that because Rivera isn’t within walking it shouldn’t be considered an Epcot resort

    So, if one has to rely on other forms of transportation to get to the parks, then you can’t argue that Rivera doesn’t measure up as a place to stay when considering transportation to parks

    Rivera is more expensive to stay at over those and If point conservation is important, then BWV and BCV will be more attractive.
     

    DougEMG

    DIS Veteran
    DVC Gold
    Joined
    Aug 14, 2008
    I know that. But my point was that it has been stated that those two resorts, due to the ability to walk, make it a better location or that because Rivera isn’t within walking it shouldn’t be considered an Epcot resort

    So, if one has to rely on other forms of transportation to get to the parks, then you can’t argue that Rivera doesn’t measure up as a place to stay when considering transportation to parks

    Rivera is more expensive to stay at over those and If point conservation is important, then BWV and BCV will be more attractive.

    One could always rate what one considers the best transportation methods from a resort.

    For me that would be
    1. Walking
    2. Monorail (I just really like riding it)
    3. Buses and Boats
    I haven't had a chance to ride the Skyliner yet, but expect it to be in the same category as the Monorail or just below the monorail, but ahead of buses & boats.
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    One could always rate what one considers the best transportation methods from a resort.

    For me that would be
    1. Walking
    2. Monorail (I just really like riding it)
    3. Buses and Boats
    I haven't had a chance to ride the Skyliner yet, but expect it to be in the same category as the Monorail or just below the monorail, but ahead of buses & boats.
    I actually would probably rate them the same way. Its one of the reasons I bought BLT when it opened because we always stayed at Contemporary so we could walk to the park!

    I avoid buses at all costs and use Uber or Lyft when I can, especially when I go to AK.

    So, there will definitely be times that I will book Rivera over BWV when I know my traveling party won’t be able to do those walks.
     

    DonnaL

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 4, 2005
    While in the past staying at a monorail resort (BLT/VGF/Poly) or an Epcot/HS resort (BCV/BWV) had the advantage of being very close proximity to a park....I do think the Skyliner will be a game changer for the Riviera Resort........literally .....it is very fast to both Epcot and HS. And, from the videos and promos I've seen of the resort......everything appears to be top notch.....DVD did not penny pinch at this resort. So, while initially I thought the point values were high.....I'm beginning to change my thoughts on that.....not totally until we actually stay there once or twice......but I think they did their homework on this one.
     

    Spark65

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Sep 27, 2019
    One could always rate what one considers the best transportation methods from a resort.

    For me that would be
    1. Walking
    2. Monorail (I just really like riding it)
    3. Buses and Boats
    I haven't had a chance to ride the Skyliner yet, but expect it to be in the same category as the Monorail or just below the monorail, but ahead of buses & boats.
    I rode the Skyliner in early November there were no issues other than long lines. The ride is probably the nicest one next to taking the boat from Port Orleans to Disney Springs at night in my book. Walking allows you a sense of individuality where transportation provides you with sense of dependency.

    People who prefer to walk over waiting are most likely less patient and are probably the type who is always on the go. I fall into that type but sometimes at Disney the boat rides are worth the wait.
     

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