Ask Mr. Lincoln and Carousel of Progress

[umbluegray]

The World's Fair is still going strong.

The most recent edition was in 2005 in Aichi, Japan.

Expo 2005

U.S. Pavilion World Expo 2005

Future Expos
Expo Zaragoza 2008
Zaragoza, Spain
June 14 - September 13, 2008
Type of Event: World's Fair (Limited)
http://www.expozaragoza2008.es/EN/index.asp

Expo 2010 Shanghai China
Type of Event: World's Fair
http://www.expo2010china.com/expo/english/eu/

 

[Patch'sD]

I beg to differ, First I visited the fair many times growing up about 10 miles from it’s location. My visits were more than one and most likely less than 10. My forty-two year old memories may not be as clear as yours, but I do still have memories of the fair. So I too was there, which does not make me expert but I have done significant reading on the topic.

Yes, Shea Stadium was managed as a separate construction project outside of the fair. But it was tied closely to the fair. It appeared in the Official Guide book of the fair and the idea was floated to hold larger special events there when the Mets were on the Road. Met Attendance for 1964 was double of that of the previous year at the Polo Grounds. Could that be because of the cross marketing of the Fair and Met Games. I believe there was a package available where purchasing Met tickets also got you free admission to the fair. So Yes technically it was not part of the fair, but being across from the Subway Platform it was close relative of the fair and with it’s futuristic design complemented the Worlds Fair. Most promotional material about the 64/65 Worlds fair includes information about Shea Stadium.

The New York State Pavilion consisted of three venues. The Tent of Tomorrow, the large circular building with a multi colored suspended ceiling, The three Observation Towers, one being 226 feet tall, and Theaterama, a Circular theater with a 360 degree picture screen. The Observation towers and the Tent of Tomorrow are both in the state of decay. The Tent of Tomorrow in the 70's was used as a Roller Skating Rink. The Skating rink was closed for a time as the roof was collapsing. Once the roof was removed the rink was reopened. The Theaterarama was restored and is used today as the Queens Theater in the Park. The Observation towers, were used as a scene in the movie MIB. The story behind the scene was that Aliens crashed onto the earth in the 60’s. To hide the crashed ship it was used in the construction of the as the Platter shaped top of one of the Observation Towers. When the MIB ride was built at Universal Studios Florida, replicas of the towers were built as part of the theme for that Ride.

The Unisphere, like the Trylon and Perisphere of the 1939 worlds fair, was the symbol of the fair. All literature about the fair included drawings of the Unisphere. As the Magic Kingdom’s Cinderella’s Castle, The MGM Studios Mouse ear Water Tower, and Animal Kingdom’s tree of life, EPCOT’s Spaceship Earth was the symbol or landmark used to define that Park. Just like The 1964 Worlds fair, Most EPCOT promotional material included a drawing of Spaceship Earth. The only difference is that Spaceship Earth is also an attraction where the Unisphere is only a Symbol. The other Similarity is both at the time of construction where considered to be groundbreaking.

As for being off topic, how is that? What I presented was a summary of the 1964 Worlds fair and some information of the four Disney Designed Exhibits at that fair. The original OP posted questions about the Carousel of Progress and why Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln was considered more groundbreaking, The thread started discussing Worlds Fairs and Disney Involvement. How does a brief summary of the Worlds fair, Disney Involvement at the Worlds Fair, Tie ins of the Worlds Fair to current attractions at WDW and Universal, and what remains today at the Worlds Fair Grounds not contribute to this thread. The only thing off topic was you floating the Pepsi and Coke promotion. But of course the Digression statement clears that right up.


I think what I presented here complemented the thread and did not take it off track at all. And remember I was there too at the fair. My memories may not be as crisp as yours but since I was interested in the Fair and Disney’s involvement, I have reviewed material on the internet, books, DVDs, and my families home movies and photos of the Fair. By your statement of take it from someone who was there, you were trying to prove your information as correct and mine wrong. I believe I presented significant information here to back-up my facts and disprove your assertions. If you need more information on the 1964 Worlds Fair, I suggest a google of that topic.

 

[Patch'sD]

Great Moments with Mr Lincoln was considered to be one of Walt Disney’s greatest achievements at the time. The idea began to begin in 1956 when Disney wanted to have a “One Nation Under God” attraction at Disneyland. this show would have featured a 5-screen wrap around presentation with artwork and narration, culminating in a Hall of Presidents in which all of America's presidents would be featured in some way, but the highlight of which would be Abraham Lincoln. By April, 1962, ."One Nation Under God" had progressed to the point that an Audio-Animatronic Lincoln prototype could rise from his chair and shake hands. Robert Mosses The World's Fair President who was checking on the status of other Disney attractions was so impressed by this demonstration that he was adamant that "One Nation Under God" be presented at the Fair. He was soon given Disney's blessings to try to find a sponsor for the show, despite Disney's misgivings that the technology wasn't completely developed enough to have the show completed in time for the Fair's opening in 1964.
Moses turned his considerable persuasive power on the United States government to sponsor "One Nation Under God" as the main component of the Federal pavilion. The cost of the show would have amounted to only approximately 20% of the Federal budget for participation in the Fair. Although Moses spent the better part of 1962 and early 1963 trying to sell various Federal officials on the merits of the show, he was unsuccessful in getting the Department of Commerce World's Fair Commission to sponsor it as their main exhibit.
With time running out, Disney and Moses agreed to scale back the exhibit to a one-figure show, a President Lincoln show. The Coca-Cola company was given a demonstration of the Lincoln figure in hopes that they might sponsor him at the Fair. However Coca-Cola also declined. Mosses was able to get the State of Illinois to sponsor the attraction. And the rest is History.
Here is an interview from E-Ticket Magazine and Marc Davis.
MARC DAVIS:...Robert Moses, the head of the World's Fair, flew out to see Walt at what we called WED at that time. He insisted that Walt had to give him this Abraham Lincoln. Well, we didn't have the technology for it....and this was when Walt put me on it. I have a notebook in there that I did, "How To Build A Mechanical Man"....and all of this was wrong. We weren't building a mechanical man....we were building an illusion. An illusion of man. That took a while to soak into me and into everyone else.
I want to show you something I think you'll be interested in. Walt told me that he wanted to build Abraham Lincoln. He knew I knew a lot about anatomy and things, so I went ahead and put these drawings together. This sequence shows Mister Lincoln standing up. Here are the different movements that Lincoln went through in his performance. You know, they say somebody else animated that....that's a lot of crap. This is Mister Lincoln, and these are the things he had to do. Here, he leans forward....and he rises, watching the center of gravity. Then, see where he has to move this one leg? This is what I mean by the illusion.
THE "E" TICKET: It's difficult to comprehend the amount of effort it must have taken to turn these concepts into a finished attraction in 12 months!
MARC DAVIS: Well, when we got him built, Mister Lincoln would go through his performance...everything would be fine, and then, all of a sudden, there'd be some kind of glitch and he'd become a "spastic" suddenly. The poor sound men would have to come back night after night and redo the tapes that would control the figure. And after two weeks ... I guess the Fair was open ... Robert Moses decided he wanted to see this Mister Lincoln, since he'd talked the State of Illinois into buying it. He came into the Mister Lincoln show with all of the New York "ward healers" and their wives ... and we had to run it for them. This was maybe 11:00 in the morning. I sat next to Dick Irvine, and he sat next to Walt. There was General Potter, the one time head of the Panama Canal, and he was Bob Moses' assistant. General Potter sat on my right, as I recall, and then there was Moses and all the other officials and their wives.
Mister Lincoln went through his performance ... and God ... not one glitch! We wanted to hug him! The only thing was, you couldn't go up and hug a big pile of machinery like that because it could kill you. This thing had 500 pounds of hydraulic pressure ... it could kill you. Sometimes you worked on it and you forgot that it wasn't a human being. If somebody fooled around, this thing could floor you!
You know, on Mister Lincoln I didn't turn the knobs that controlled him myself, but someplace you'll find my "dialogue sheets" all marked out just like you do for animation ... every move Lincoln was to make ... and whether it was a larger move, to turn his hand at this point, and so on.
THE "E" TICKET: Did they refer to those as a script, or something else?
MARC DAVIS: Well, they didn't call it anything. It was just the "animation pattern" so that the guys that turned the knobs could follow and watch along with it, to animate the figure. I see an awful lot of this stuff done now, and it's so meager and so poorly thought out ... and it doesn't come to life. Mister Lincoln did come to life, to a point. When the attraction was opened to the public, the New York Times, in their Sunday section, reviewed it full-page and said, "At this point Mister Lincoln stands up and walks forward on the stage, and delivers his address." The illusion was that good, that this reviewer thought that Lincoln literally walked forward. I think that was a hell of a compliment.
The "E" TICKET: Of the four attractions at the World's Fair, was "Great Moments With Mr. Lincoln" the most complex?
MARC DAVIS: Well it was the one where we "sweated blood." You know, Walt was about ready to cut his own throat and we were ready to jump off the bridge with him. You know it was horrible! You can't believe ... here we were, stuck with something and Walt didn't have the technology to have accepted that assignment at that time.
THE "E" TICKET: And you were actually at the elbow of everyone working on the installation during that time?
MARC DAVIS: Oh absolutely! It was like working on the first automobile or the first airplane or whatever and you didn't know whether it was going to fly or not.

Taken from www.nywf64.com Please go to that site if you want to learn more of the Worlds Fair and the Four Disney attractions

 

[amy4bruce]

I apologize if you're offended at what I said. (This is the first time I've looked back here in awhile.)

I will admit I did not research, and everything I said was pulled from my hazy memory.

I simply cannot remember a single time that Shea Stadium and the Fair were mentioned as a single project. I was thirteen at the time, and possible I missed that.

What I meant about Spaceship Earth was that, to my knowledge, always as an attaction, which the Unisphere never was.

The off topic comment was because the original poster was asking about COP and Mr. Lincoln, and we were now discussing technical things about the entire fair. I still believe this. I realize that you don't, and I apologize if my comment offended you.

 

[Patch'sD]

No harm done, it is nice to converse with someone who was also there. I have trecked through flushing meadows several times, about 10 years ago I swear you could still see the outlines of some of the pavilions due to changes in elevation and color of the grass. I would like to see the New York State Pavilion restored.

 

[FergieTCat]

I was there, albeit I was 3 years old and only have a very fuzzy recollection. However, I still live in Queens and pass the old fairgrounds whenever I go to the airports.

Thank you for that answer to my question. I guess Mr. Lincoln was more complicated than the "Carousel of Progress Guy" which is why Lincoln is considered a greater accomplishment.