Autism lawsuits to continue on appeal

It will be a sad day in Disney history if there becomes a law or judicial order forcing Disney to grant front of the line or green arrow or golden ticket or other line cutting privilege to persons or families who self identify as having a particular disability.
 
It will be a sad day in Disney history if there becomes a law or judicial order forcing Disney to grant front of the line or green arrow or golden ticket or other line cutting privilege to persons or families who self identify as having a particular disability.

Yep - I seriously doubt we would even go back if that comes to pass. What would be the point? Without any kind of verification, the abusers (and even the overusers, who need accommodation, but not front of the line) would be overwhelming, and waits for anyone who didn't have the accommodation would be incredibly long and unpredictable.
 
I hope the judge looks at these plaintiffs, who state their children will have meltdowns if they have to wait, and say "and then what?" Do parents of children with autism really expect the world to stop and meet their children's wants so that the children never have meltdowns?
 
If there is a ruling against Disney, then all of the other theme parks will have to have the same system. All theme parks will be a free for all for those who want to claim a disability.
 


What I find odd about the plaintiffs argument is the part about "meltdowns" I've worked with some very high/low functioning autistic children. One thing we ALWAYS teach is waiting your turn!! Don't these parents do this?
 
What I find odd about the plaintiffs argument is the part about "meltdowns" I've worked with some very high/low functioning autistic children. One thing we ALWAYS teach is waiting your turn!! Don't these parents do this?
There are probably some that don't.
 


Court stuff:


https://www.orlandosentinel.com/bus...0200218-ngabbcvpsjglrn4vx44luasoaq-story.html

The first time the Disney rules had changed for him, her autistic son stood frozen, blocking the line on the Jungle Cruise ride, and not understanding why he had to wait 40 minutes instead of boarding immediately, said his mother Donna Lorman as she testified Tuesday during a federal civil trial six years in the making against the theme parks.

Her son didn’t know the concept of time. She worried he was going to have a meltdown on that December 2013 night.


I didn’t know what we were going to do,” said Lorman, an Orlando autism advocate who sued in 2014 after Disney changed the special access to rides that it had long allowed for people with autism and other disabilities.

Disney altered the policy not long after a story in the New York Post and other media outlets went viral in 2013 about wealthy tourists abusing the system by hiring people in wheelchairs or with other disabilities to accompany them so they could skip to the front of sometimes hours-long queues for the most popular rides at the parks


The Post quoted one mother who boasted about using that method to get VIP treatment for her family without having to pay for an actual VIP tour who said, "This is how the 1% does Disney.”

Disney began requiring disabled guests to make reservations for rides rather than be allowed to move to the front of the line on demand.


Lorman testified in federal court on Tuesday that the new system is a problem for her son, who thrives on routines and struggles with waiting and must ride his favorite attractions as he follows a specific route through the parks.

“The need for sameness and routine is essential for keeping (him) grounded,” testified Lorman, the president of the Autism Society of Greater Orlando who has trained Universal Orlando employees and law-enforcement agencies how to be more autism-friendly.

Lorman said her son struggles to communicate with the outside world other than to say “bathroom” or “chicken nuggets.” He follows a strict routine, like sleeping with exactly nine pillows at night, eating a certain brand of chips or having a snack every day at 2 p.m.

She said Disney gives her family a limited number of re-admission passes to proceed directly into the FastPass line, but not enough for a park like Magic Kingdom, which has more than 20 rides.

Disney attorneys questioned Lorman’s account and disputed that her son always rode attractions in a specific order.

He didn’t follow that pattern on some of his visits, said attorney Kerry Alan Scanlon, who was able to pinpoint portions of the family’s prior itineraries. He also asked Lorman why she didn’t do more to prepare her son for the family’s trip.

On that December 2013 evening at Mickey’s Very Merry Christmas Party, most of the wait times were under 20 minutes but Lorman hadn’t bothered to check, Scanlon said during the first day of what’s expected to be a four-day trial in front of Judge Anne Conway in U.S. District Court’s Orlando division.

Scanlon also pointed to other instances during which Lorman’s son, now 27, appeared to cope with waiting such as a seven-hour road trip with his family or a ceremony for his sister’s law school graduation.

Disney did not respond to a request for comment for this story but said in an earlier statement, “Disney Parks have an unwavering commitment to providing an inclusive and accessible environment for all our guests.”

Lorman’s son, who was diagnosed with autism around age 4, sat in the courtroom during most of his mother’s nearly four-hour testimony, apparently unaware of the significance of the events taking place around him. He stayed mostly quiet, dressed in a collared pink shirt and slacks. At times, he shook a red cylinder tube, which helps calm him like a security blanket.

In December 2013, they were turned away from the Jungle Cruise and told to come back after 40 minutes. Her son refused to move, blocking the line. Lorman distracted him, taking him to get dinner and see a show elsewhere at the park, his normal Disney route disrupted.

Lorman also testified about her son’s fascination with Disney.

He loves music and naturally gravitated toward Disney because of the songs he adored in “The Lion King” and the barbershop quartet who harmonizes on Magic Kingdom’s Main Street USA.

A trip to Disney World became a way to provide him positive reinforcement when he behaved.

Disney “is the happiest place on Earth,” Lorman said outside the courtroom after her testimony. “Except for kids with autism.”
 
Any therapist who works with autistic children would know not to indulge the child's preferences to anywhere near that degree. It's pathetic, as her enabling probably kept him from making progress as he grew up. Autistic children can absolutely learn how to behave, but they need boundaries and tons of practice in learning to take turns, wait for turns, be flexible, and handle disappointment.

This mother really had no idea what to do when they couldn't go straight onto the ride? So she took him there with no contingency plan in case of ride malfunction, bad weather, etc. That's hard to imagine, because as the mother of an autistic teen, I know that daily life with an autistic child is all about learning to deal with the ups and downs and the unexpected. They never had to cope with that before? I don't buy it.

This suit gives a bad name to the hardworking families who are doing everything they can to raise their autistic children to be able to successfully function in the real world. It's pathetic and I'm glad that Disney is standing firm.
 
Because those entities are offering enhanced access where Disney is only offering equal access.
Before you ask. Disney used to offer enhanced access. It consumed too much ride capacity. Somewhere in the exhibits is the data that goes with 3% of the park attendees were utilizing 30% of the ride capacity. There will be no more enhanced access at Disney.
Six Flags doesn’t give any enhanced access ... I still Have to get a time to go back to the ride and get on it sometimes through their flash pass lines same as Disney . Unless you get a No Wait pass which is not everyone then it’s almost the same thing.
 
Six Flags doesn’t give any enhanced access ... I still Have to get a time to go back to the ride and get on it sometimes through their flash pass lines same as Disney . Unless you get a No Wait pass which is not everyone then it’s almost the same thing.
I thought you have to buy The FLASH Pass? Is it free to everyone?
 
I have a question. If Six Flags can ask for a Dr.s note to validate a disability and the state can ask for a detailed Dr.'s statement for approval to obtain a placard or handicapped plates, why doesn't Disney? I'm just looking for clarification.
It should be noted that probably around 80% of those doctors notes are fakes obtained that morning from a guy on the corner selling them for $20, which is a lot cheaper thant their front of the line access, which is essentially what they give for free to those with doctors notes.

The bottom line is requiring doctors notes actually leads to far more rampant abuse than Disney's current approach.
 
Six Flags doesn’t give any enhanced access ... I still Have to get a time to go back to the ride and get on it sometimes through their flash pass lines same as Disney . Unless you get a No Wait pass which is not everyone then it’s almost the same thing.
In that case, ADA would say they are not allowed to require a doctor's note and they are only getting away with it because no one challenges it in court because Six Flags doesn't have the money Disney does, so there isn't likely to be the same payout.
 
I thought you have to buy The FLASH Pass? Is it free to everyone?
What? That would be pathetic, why would they charge for something that provides return times and ultimately means people will be spending more money in the parks while waiting for their return time?
 
DAS would not need to calculate any additional compensation of time for wheelchair guests due to the way the system works now.

DAS return times are designed to be stand-by wait time minus 10 minutes since the FP line is supposed to be 10 minutes. The problem is that for certain rides the wheelchair entrance is much longer than a 10 minute wait when the DAS holder returns and enters that line. Sometimes it is a 30 - 45 minute wait (one time an hour because a MAW kid showed up) and the wait times will only continue to grow as crowds increase. It really only affects a small group of guests who need limited specific seating...SE when needing to take a wheelchair up to the loading platform since only one can be up there (well, two if one folds but then there is the issue of only one RC evac. guest per each of the two zones), KS when staying in one's wheelchair or bringing a service dog which uses that same spot, TSMM...IASM...JC when not transferring.

All the extra waiting adds up over the day and trip and it really isn't equal or fair access not to mention the difficulty of an unexpected wait of that length in a noisy and crowded loading area with people shoving and bumping into you as they pass by since the disabled person in their party can transfer into any seat. Disney doesn't even have designated "safe" areas for these disabled people and their groups to be placed so they can wait in the same relaxed way that every other guest experiences. It is just being shoved to the side of a narrow path so people in scooters can hopefully not run into you.

Disney posts wait times for able-bodied guests and the DAS line for those not in the situation I described above but Disney makes zero attempt to inform people with my type of accommodation needs if my wait will be the regular 10 minutes or 45 in a horrible environment. It really is a simple programming change because attractions already update their stand-by wait times and could easily add a "non-transfer" wait time. For someone like me I would just come back when the line has shortened but as it is right now, I can't know how long that line will be until I go through the entire queue and am near the loading area where all our groups are lined up to the side.

As an example I think there were three service dogs in front of me last trip waiting to get on KS and about 10 groups needing the "spot"...while all the other guests waited probably less than 3-5 minutes from that same point in line.

If it wasn't for the noisy wait getting bumped into constantly I wouldn't be so irked by it all since the DAS allows for double-dipping at times by waiting out a PP return time at Philharmagic or SM at CoP.
 

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