Boarding Buses

sneezy1956

Mouseketeer
Joined
May 3, 2001
Hi All with all the talk about loading on the new buses I asked one of our Dis Friends in the know and I was pointed to this site:

http://www.fta.dot.gov/library/legal/fr9691a.htm

This is what caught my attention regarding buses:

Section 38.23
(11) Boarding direction. The lift shall permit both inboard and
outboard facing of wheelchair and mobility aid users.


So I'm planning on taking a copy of this in my bag and if I have any trouble I'll pull the fed law on them. I can't turn my neck around any more to watch where I'm backing. So now I don't have to worry about that.:tongue: :tongue:
 
Originally posted by sneezy1956

Section 38.21
(11) Boarding direction. The lift shall permit both inboard and
outboard facing of wheelchair and mobility aid users.


Thanks for that interesting reference (though its 38.23 not 38.21.

The bus requirements also give maximum ramp gradients. I have had difficulties in the past with the steepness of the ramps at the parks, where there is no sidewalk.

Andrew
 
Thanks Andrew: I'll make the correction in the post :)

I reread and double checked and still made a mistake on it :)

BTW, the only ramp I have major trouble with in an ECV, is the one that leads to the monorail at the TTC. That ramp is terrible, I haven't progressed to an electric chair yet so not sure how it is for folks in chairs. But, in an ECV you pray no one crowds around you because you really need to keep giving it just a little power to hold you in place.
 
It looks like the loading direction only applies to lifts since there is a separate section later on in the document that talks about all the specifics for ramps. 38.23 b 1-13 is about lifts, 38.23 c 1-8 is about ramps.

The reason they want people with ecvs to back up the ramp to the bus is that there have been many farm accidents with tractors tipping over backwards while going up ramps. You might be wondering what this has to do with ecvs, but tractors and ecvs have similar properties. Both have most of the weight over the rear tires, which makes them unstable when the front is higher on the ramp than the rear. It's more of a problem with 3 wheeled ecvs since they are more "tippy" with only one front point resting on the ground. It's not a problem with power wheelchairs because the weight is more evenly distributed.

I am certain that if they were building the monorail stations today, that would be an illegal slope for the ramp. It's about twice as steep as the ramp we have in our garage and ours is on the steep side of being OK (we would have needed it 6 feet longer to be right and we didn't have 6 feet).
 
Supposedly as soon as the feds revise the law it will also include ramps. I guess we will have to see.:D
 
Originally posted by SueM in MN

The reason they want people with ecvs to back up the ramp to the bus is that there have been many farm accidents with tractors tipping over backwards while going up ramps. You might be wondering what this has to do with ecvs, but tractors and ecvs have similar properties. Both have most of the weight over the rear tires, which makes them unstable when the front is higher on the ramp than the rear. It's more of a problem with 3 wheeled ecvs since they are more "tippy" with only one front point resting on the ground.

Do you suppose that is why the newer scooters have extra "outrigger" safety mini-wheels that stick out the back?
 
Linda:

I'm sure it is. The EVC I'm looking at getting does have the anti tip wheels in the back.
 


Our ECV is pretty old and it has the anti-tip wheels on the back.

Grandma bought it used about 8 years ago.

Carol
 
On Disney's Newer buses, with the ramps, ECV's and Wheelchairs should both load by going in FORWARDS whenever there is NO CURB at the bus stop. In that situation, the bus is "kneeled" so that there should be a very even grade along the ramp.

When there is a curb, the newer buses can not be kneeled, and, depending on the height of the curb, that can result in a steeper ramp angle. As such, with many ECV's, drivers are asking the rider to back in, keeping the heavier back end with the batteries uphill.

Also, if another person is pushing a manual wheelchair, the chair should be loaded backwards. This is to prevent injury to the person pushing the wheelchair, in the event they lose their grip and the wheelchair rolls back down the ramp.
 
On Disney's Newer buses, with the ramps, ECV's and Wheelchairs should both load by going in FORWARDS whenever there is NO CURB at the bus stop. In that situation, the bus is "kneeled" so that there should be a very even grade along the ramp.
Thanks for the clarification. In the beginning of use of the new buses, people were posting that they were told they had to always back up the ramp, even when it was kneeled. This is a problem for power wheelchairs because they are not well suited for going up ramps backwards. I'm glad to hear this has apparently been changed. When the bus can't kneel, it's still better for most power wheelchairs to go up forwards (althoughh for ecvs, it's safer to go up steeper ramps backwards because of the weight distribution).
 
06028_sm.jpg

I just bought this little scooter for my mom who has a problem walking even fairly short distances, much less walking around WDW, without huge swelling and a painful rash on her lower legs.

I know it doesn't show in the pictures but it has the rear bar w/ wheels that you were talking about. Thanks for the explanation. I always say you can learn anything on the DisBoards! ;)

I think it's great for the amount that we paid ($299) because she'll certainly get enough use to justify such a small amount but it doesn't have a reverse so I'm glad to know that she doesn't have to "back in". Altho, she's capable of getting off and boarding the bus on her own power while I shove it onboard. Which do ya'll believe would be the better solution?

Thanks for your help,
Cheryl
 
Originally posted by WorknFires
06028_sm.jpg

I think it's great for the amount that we paid ($299) because she'll certainly get enough use to justify such a small amount but it doesn't have a reverse so I'm glad to know that she doesn't have to "back in". Altho, she's capable of getting off and boarding the bus on her own power while I shove it onboard. Which do ya'll believe would be the better solution?

Thanks for your help,
Cheryl

A friend of ours has that same scooter and unless it's broken (or a slightly different model) on yours it does have a reverse. You have to move the key over one notch then the throttle will move it in reverse.

Carol
 
I thought I might chime in on this thread.

Over a year ago, I spent a few weeks playing telephone tag with some folks in DC about this topic, and the wording of the law. The law is currently written with boarding direction in mind for lift buses only. There is no law for ramps just yet, because they are "new" relativly speaking to the transit world.

With that in mind, Disney's policy is such:

Guests boarding the RTS standard floor bus, equipped with a lift may board in the direction of thier choice.

Guests boarding the Nova LFS low-floor bus may board in any direction, if they are using a manual push wheelchair.

If a guest is using any other electric mobility device (electric wheelchair, scooter, ecv, etc), they have the following options:

1.) Board the bus in Reverse.
2.) Step out of such device, and manually drive it in forward(with power is okay) up the ramp. (The key is that no one may be sitting in the device at the time it is going in forward up the ramp.)
3.) Wait for a different style bus.

Curb or no curb makes no difference.

Whether or not this policy is right or wrong, or whether it is too generalized, and not specific to certain types of mobility devices it is Disney policy, and drivers are required to sign a statement agreeing to abide by it. They are subject to disciplinary action if they do not.

I have argued it till I was blue in the face. I even had one of my managers come meet a guest using an electric wheelchair where it was by far better to go in forward. The policy remains, for liability reasons, and drivers do not have a choice in the matter. If a guest has an issue, they should realize that it is out of the drivers control, and they should request to speak to a member of the Disney Transport management team.



Now... here's the GOOD news.

Disney placed an order for 45 Gillig Advantage low-floor buses. About half of them have arrived, and will be entering service soon. The other half will be arriving towards the end of 2005, give or take. (EDIT: All 45 are currently in service NOW! :D)

The Gilligs will be set up in a similar fashion, 2 positions, with the wheelchair ramp in the rear door. HOWEVER, the ramp is a flip-out style ramp, instead of the unreliable extendable ramp. This is good, because it can be easily operated manually, in the case of mechanical failure.

Because of the modified design of the Gillig, at the time of this writing, guests *WILL* be allowed to board the Gillig low-floor bus in any direction that they choose. (This applies ONLY to the Gillig, and of course, is subject to change at any given moment without notice)

The reason why it is being allowed in the Gillig and NOT the Nova is that the Gillig was specially modified to reduce the boarding angle. There are also some other technical details that I cannot go into detail with.

As always, if anyone has any questions, please feel free to PM me.
 
Thanks for the update, Tyler.
We appreciate you CMs in the purple pants.
 
As Chip N' Dale mentioned, the new Gillig buses have arrived, and are now substantially in use around property.

There are a couple of other advantages to these new buses in terms of loading and unloading for wheelchairs and ECV's. These buses, unlike the Nova low floor buses, CAN be kneeled when the bus stop has a curb. Also, the flooring near the rear doors is sloped towards the exit. These two factors create a much more gradual slope on the ramp.
 
Indeed, the rear door area is sloped, the ramp is longer, and the bus kneels lower. All this cause for a very small angle to board. :)

Just want to also add that we've recieved 45 of the Gilligs, and they are all in service. I was originally told the order would be split, but I guess they were so happy with the bus, they had them arrive sooner rather than later. From what I am to gather, we might be recieving more later in 2005, but that hasn't been confirmed.

Here's a thread with some pictures.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=693917
 

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