Boy Scouts to allow girls

I wonder - is membership in Boy Scouts dwindling, is this a response to that? I had a DS in Boy Scouts and 2 DDs in Girl Scouts; the Boy Scout program seemed much more regimented and ordered, the Girls one really depended on the leader.

The boy scouts lost a million members between 03 and 15 which was about 1/3 of its membership. Even when I was a scout, as kids started getting older, sometimes they'd just find other things they wanted to do. But I think that has gotten even more so now. Camping and the like itself has gotten less popular too. The Girl Scouts also lost about a million members over the same time period.

I was wondering this myself. I know a lot of families (including my family) that have stayed away from Boy Scouts due to the organization's attitudes and requirements over the years. We don't allow our sons to go to Boy Scouts or do activities sponsored by them, and I'm wondering if they've lost membership because of families like ours.
 
I don't usually venture over to this board, but I thought I would chime in here. The thing that a lot of people need to remember is that the US is one of the last countries who DON'T have co-ed scouts. I am taking a wait and see attitude on my part to see how it goes. I know in out area Girl Scouts are dwindling because they aren't doing the things they use to do like camping and hiking. Just lots of arts and crafts and things like sewing.

Now, on the other hand if BSA brought back the sewing Merit Badge I would be quite happy. I hate sewing on those darn merit badges and I would be very happy to let my son do his own sewing!
 
While the part about the US being one of the last countries to not have co-ed scouts is true it isn't the whole picture. The truth is that we are one of the last countries to still have a boy only scouting program and not have a full co-ed scouting program, boy scouts is co-ed for 14+. What fails to get mentioned, is that the majority of the countries who have co-ed scouting also still have a separate girl scout\girl guide program. What basically has happened, is that the only scouting option if boys is co-ed and girls get to choose between co-ed or a single sex program.
 


While the part about the US being one of the last countries to not have co-ed scouts is true it isn't the whole picture. The truth is that we are one of the last countries to still have a boy only scouting program and not have a full co-ed scouting program, boy scouts is co-ed for 14+. What fails to get mentioned, is that the majority of the countries who have co-ed scouting also still have a separate girl scout\girl guide program. What basically has happened, is that the only scouting option if boys is co-ed and girls get to choose between co-ed or a single sex program.
True, and I know here in Canada in came about mainly because the MOTHERS were the ones that were Scout Masters and were bringing daughters along. Many times Scouts would lose a Scout Master if the mother couldn't bring the sister to meetings. As I have said previously my daughter is in the Girl Guide stream, but if there wasn't a unit that was convenient for her to attend I would not have hesitated to sign her up. On of her good friends from swimming is a Scout because her brother is.
 
That pretty much sums it up. Afterwards, a self-described "not a very enthusiastic scout" Scout in Illinois wrote Rowe a response that said that he was "slightly offended" by Mike's words to Kebly. Rowe's response to the 2nd Scout was even more frank.

I generally like Mike Rowe, but really didn't like his response. (Here's a bit from the link, for those who didn't click:

"...Given your excellence in school, your commitment to physical fitness, and your desire for higher education, that confession strikes me as a bit out of context. I mean, why would a guy who’s so passionate and deliberate about everything else in his life invest his time doing something for which he has so little enthusiasm?..."

He basically tells the kid to shoot for Eagle or quit all together.)

But just because you don't excel in everything doesn't mean you aren't successful. Why can't the kid just do Scouts for recreation? It's like he's saying you should only ever do anything if you set out to the be the best at it - so no singing in the car, no taking a cooking class unless you want to be a chef, no learning a foreign language just because you can... What happened to some things being just hobbies?

I certainly don't think kids who enjoy the occasional camping trip, but have no plan to become Eagle Scouts, are doomed to mediocrity. On top of that, how would the 1 in a 100 who makes Eagle get to do any of the group activities at all if the other 99 didn't come along just for fun?



I'd probably urge my daughter to choose Boy Scouts (I assume that name will change) just so I didn't have to deal with all those cookies!

Ah, but then there's popcorn...
.
 
I generally like Mike Rowe, but really didn't like his response. (Here's a bit from the link, for those who didn't click:

"...Given your excellence in school, your commitment to physical fitness, and your desire for higher education, that confession strikes me as a bit out of context. I mean, why would a guy who’s so passionate and deliberate about everything else in his life invest his time doing something for which he has so little enthusiasm?..."

He basically tells the kid to shoot for Eagle or quit all together.)

But just because you don't excel in everything doesn't mean you aren't successful. Why can't the kid just do Scouts for recreation? It's like he's saying you should only ever do anything if you set out to the be the best at it - so no singing in the car, no taking a cooking class unless you want to be a chef, no learning a foreign language just because you can... What happened to some things being just hobbies?

I certainly don't think kids who enjoy the occasional camping trip, but have no plan to become Eagle Scouts, are doomed to mediocrity. On top of that, how would the 1 in a 100 who makes Eagle get to do any of the group activities at all if the other 99 didn't come along just for fun?

That is just ridiculous of him to say that. There are couple of boys in my son's troop who have no interest in making Eagle. They enjoy the meetings and going camping, fishing, etc. As a "city" troop, this is only way some of them can do these kinds of things. They celebrate other people's achievements and they do earn merit badges and such, but it is not the be all end all for them.


Ah, but then there's popcorn...
.

THANK GOODNESS my son' s troop does other fundraisers and doesn't participate in popcorn. We have several Troops/Packs in a small area so instead of trying to fight for places to sell a couple of us just decided to participate in other council fundraisers and forgo popcorn for troop level fundraisers during popcorn season. :yay::yay::yay:
 


I was wondering this myself. I know a lot of families (including my family) that have stayed away from Boy Scouts due to the organization's attitudes and requirements over the years. We don't allow our sons to go to Boy Scouts or do activities sponsored by them, and I'm wondering if they've lost membership because of families like ours.

I can say in our pack that this is not the case. We started a new scouting year the Friday after labor day and had 20 boys sign up. I think in some parts of the country membership may be down, but I think it more has to do with kids being involved in SO many activities on top of school that people are really starting to pick and choose activities. Especially those that may include a financial commitment.
 
Ah, but then there's popcorn...
.
I know it varies a lot by troop. But in ours we sold popcorn and did other fundraisers to fund actually going to camp. I haven't had a daughter in Girl Scouts, but my niece's troop used the cookie proceeds for a trip to the mall and Rain Forest Cafe. I read about others in other parts of the country using theirs for Disney trips. I'm just more likely to go all in with fundraising like that when I think the payoff is related to the purpose of the troop. As I said though, that might just be my personal experience and is different elsewhere.

Besides, I can resist popcorn. I have never been able to resist cookies. Too dangerous to have around the house. ;)
 
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That is just ridiculous of him to say that. There are couple of boys in my son's troop who have no interest in making Eagle. They enjoy the meetings and going camping, fishing, etc. As a "city" troop, this is only way some of them can do these kinds of things. They celebrate other people's achievements and they do earn merit badges and such, but it is not the be all end all for them.

I agree. I think the emphasis on the "trail to Eagle" can be too much. Our troop also has several boys who enjoy participating in lots of activities but don't care so much about rank advancement. And I think it's fine for them to go at their own pace and not be pushed. Other boys get heavy pressure from parents when it's clear they're not that interested in scouting anymore (or have other interests--sports, job, etc., that take priority).
 
We belong to a Ukrainian scouting organization (Plast) that has been co-ed almost since its inception in the early 20th century. We often (but not always) have separate “dens” and of course camps are separate, but everyone goes through the same program for earning badges and promotions. Regardless of gender, the kids work on all types of badges – like sewing and cooking (because these are things every able-bodied person should be able to do) to archery, first aid and knot-tying.

My older daughter earned the Plast Eagle Scout designation this past spring and my younger daughter just started the process. It’s my understanding that the desire to be able to earn the Eagle Scout title is much of what prompted this change. Girl Scouts have the Gold Award that I think is supposed to be somewhat of a counterpart but my impression is that it doesn’t carry the same recognition as the Eagle Scout title.
 
I'll put my bias out there first: I've done a ton of research and work in girls/women in STEM areas, so that's the perspective I'm using. For girls, study after study show that they participate less and take fewer risks (which are hugely important in science fields!) when there are boys around. Girls are less likely to volunteer to lead an activity if there are boys around. Less likely to try a new skill that they've never done before. Less likely to ask questions and less likely to be called upon to answer a question. This starts in late elementary school and goes down hill from there. Obviously this doesn't apply to all girls or to all environments, but enough research has been done that shows these trends, that it's something to be concerned about. Having a place where girls can go a few times a month where they are just around girls gives them the opportunity to be the leaders and to take risks.
I'm not by ANY means saying that all girls need that opportunity, or that they can't be leaders and risk takers else where, but having a place where girls can safely develop those skills is hugely beneficial for SOME girls.

As for boys, my son is your stereotypical active hyper crazy little boy. He works SO hard at school all day to keep it together and behave. Having a place where it's normal and OK to be active and crazy, where he won't be compared to the adorable little girl sitting still and coloring, is good for him too. (Like I said, boy scouts didn't work out to be that place for my son, but I can easily see how it would be for many boys.)

We belong to a co-ed Ukrainian Scouting program (Plast). My daughters grew up in this program and are still active to this day. Maybe the above scenarios are true in other environments, but our experiences in Plast have been completely the opposite of what is described above. When numbers allow, they do have separate "dens" and overnight camps are separate (obviously), but the co-ed program gives them the opportunity to learn to interact with each other from an early age and I have seen first hand the benefits of developing those skills in both boys and girls.
 
There is no way this is not going mean the eventual death of the GSA. It will clearly cannibalize that program to the point where it will become extinct.

As for the impact on the BSA, I agree with those who are warning that putting the two genders together is not going to necessarily be beneficial. Which is why I'm glad my son earned his Eagle Scout designation three years ago and is grandfathered into the fraternity of those achieved it in its original form.
 
I was wondering this myself. I know a lot of families (including my family) that have stayed away from Boy Scouts due to the organization's attitudes and requirements over the years. We don't allow our sons to go to Boy Scouts or do activities sponsored by them, and I'm wondering if they've lost membership because of families like ours.

The Boy Scout Troops in my area have record enrollment and my son benefitted tremendously in his scouting experiences which included achieving the Eagle designation. Curious as to what programs your sons are allowed to participate in that engage and stimulate to the same level as that.
 
There is no way this is not going mean the eventual death of the GSA. It will clearly cannibalize that program to the point where it will become extinct.

As for the impact on the BSA, I agree with those who are warning that putting the two genders together is not going to necessarily be beneficial. Which is why I'm glad my son earned his Eagle Scout designation three years ago and is grandfathered into the fraternity of those achieved it in its original form.

What do you mean by your last sentence? You make it sound like you think that the achievement of earning the Eagle rank will somehow be diminished in the future. I hooe I'm just misinterpreting your post.
 
What do you mean by your last sentence? You make it sound like you think that the achievement of earning the Eagle rank will somehow be diminished in the future. I hooe I'm just misinterpreting your post.

My point was simple: he earned the Eagle designation as a Boy Scout, not a Boys and Girls Scout. If you want an analogy, I know many pre 1969 Vassar College graduates who enjoy going to reunions where the women -- not the men and women -- are the focus and the original legacy of the school is celebrated..
 
My point was simple: he earned the Eagle designation as a Boy Scout, not a Boys and Girls Scout. If you want an analogy, I know many pre 1969 Vassar College graduates who enjoy going to reunions where the women -- not the men and women -- are the focus and the original legacy of the school is celebrated..

You could have just said yes to the pp, that would have been the simplest answer.
 
The Boy Scout Troops in my area have record enrollment and my son benefitted tremendously in his scouting experiences which included achieving the Eagle designation. Curious as to what programs your sons are allowed to participate in that engage and stimulate to the same level as that.
My point was simple: he earned the Eagle designation as a Boy Scout, not a Boys and Girls Scout. If you want an analogy, I know many pre 1969 Vassar College graduates who enjoy going to reunions where the women -- not the men and women -- are the focus and the original legacy of the school is celebrated..
I am wondering if you live in a particular color area.

I know in my area, many, many families do not encourage their boys to be part of scouts due to their discrimination policies. I would have had to really think hard about allowing my boys to join if they asked. Thankfully, they were never interested. And we found plenty of programs that engaged and stimulated the boys just fine.

I know I do not support BSA and never will. Your implication that allowing girls into BSA will somehow diminish the value of the program is exactly the attitude I did not want my boys around.
 
You could have just said yes to the pp, that would have been the simplest answer.

And the wrong one. Not once did I state that the future Eagle Scout designation would be diminished. That was an insinuation the pp made, most likely because they disagree with anyone who dares to see any issues with the Boy Scouts going coed.

Can't wait for the next target of the no-gender war to be Smith College. My Grandmother went there and is not the sort of alumnae one wants to tick off.
 

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