Buying DVC Foreclosures? Current Listings going to auction in March 2019

[lizdis1]

This is all really interesting thank you for sharing.

 

[miTnosnhoJ]

It is really tough for a bidder with imperfect information to profitably bid against a deep-pocketed rival who has perfect information. If you ever win, you feel like you must have missed something.

 

[TexasChick123]

It is really tough for a bidder with imperfect information to profitably bid against a deep-pocketed rival who has perfect information. If you ever win, you feel like you must have missed something.

Yep. I looked into this a couple of years ago when my contracts kept getting taken by ROFR. Don't go down this rabbit hole.

 

[Alan Goldschmidt]

I've been doing some quick math on the auctions which were won by a third party (i.e: not Disney), and it seems that they are always at least 15% over the resale market. What's the logic behind this? I find it hard to believe that it's simple foolishness, considering that these buyers are all sophisticated enough to know about and navigate the foreclosure system, and have the cash sitting around to pay for it immediately after the close of the auction. The only "benefit" of these auctions is that it bypasses Disney's ROFR, but that would be irrelevant here anyway at these prices. What am I missing?

 

[kniquy]

What am I missing?

I have watching this venue as well -- you typically see the same names of people winning or the winner is listed as a business name. My thought is that they could be not only a resale flipper but might be a person/company renting points.

I'm guessing that these contracts come pretty well stocked with points seeing that most sit in the foreclosure process for well over a year, so owners not able to use the points. I could be totally off but if a contract was locked into the foreclosure process in 2017 - then essentially they could have used 2018 points but nothing beyond that. So someone buying a contract today could have 2019 and 2020 points.

I would love it if someone who has been through the process could explain the owed back MF and the points status of the auction contracts.

 

[crvetter]

I have watching this venue as well -- you typically see the same names of people winning or the winner is listed as a business name. My thought is that they could be not only a resale flipper but might be a person/company renting points.

I'm guessing that these contracts come pretty well stocked with points seeing that most sit in the foreclosure process for well over a year, so owners not able to use the points. I could be totally off but if a contract was locked into the foreclosure process in 2017 - then essentially they could have used 2018 points but nothing beyond that. So someone buying a contract today could have 2019 and 2020 points.

I would love it if someone who has been through the process could explain the owed back MF and the points status of the auction contracts.

So if you are purchasing foreclosures it goes to foreclosure for 2 different reasons typically: 1) for non-payment of a mortgage or 2) for not paying the MF. When you buy through foreclosure you are satisfying the judgement that is filed with the Court System that triggered the foreclosure. So if you are buying in case #1 there is very good chance that the distressed individual couldn't afford the MF either so you would have to make that current if you want access to using the points (else you will be locked out and possibly foreclosed yourself until paid up in full). When it comes to not paying the MF typically the non-payment was for a single year only on the judgement so you would have to pay for any other outstanding (subsequent years) MF before getting access to the points. One should expect that the current UY and subsequent UY are likely available when buying in foreclosure. But it is possible the current UY is stripped and much less likely that the very next UY is stripped, because of the lengthy foreclosure process. Remember as soon as they delinquent they are locked from using their points.

Also remember that any other rights to the property that are reasonably accessible (DVC MF, mortgages recorded, etc) all are to be satisfied by the buyer if they weren't on the judgement.

 

[minorthr]

I looked at some of these on the foreclosure site and some of these people are losing these properties over $250 which seems crazy to me. Sell it or rent it out or maybe they passed away.

 

[Alan Goldschmidt]

It looks like on all of these auctions (at least the ones which I've checked), the Plaintiff is always Palm Financial, so we know that it is Disney. But how can we tell if the foreclosure is based on a mortgage or a MF?

For example, Case Number: 2018-CA-006556-O (Count VI), which is scheduled for auction on 02/12/2019 11:00 AM ET, shows a judgment in the amount of $10,384.72. Is there any way to determine whether that is a mortgage or MF? And assuming it can be determined, can we then also find out what else is owed? Meaning, let's say that the approx $10k is for a mortgage, can the buyer then also be stuck with a few years of MF? Besides for a mortgage or MF, what other liens can be on the property?

Lastly, if the timeshare is being sold subject to a liens, then to where does the proceeds of the action go?

Thanks everyone for their help.

 

[crvetter]

It looks like on all of these auctions (at least the ones which I've checked), the Plaintiff is always Palm Financial, so we know that it is Disney. But how can we tell if the foreclosure is based on a mortgage or a MF?

For example, Case Number: 2018-CA-006556-O (Count VI), which is scheduled for auction on 02/12/2019 11:00 AM ET, shows a judgment in the amount of $10,384.72. Is there any way to determine whether that is a mortgage or MF? And assuming it can be determined, can we then also find out what else is owed? Meaning, let's say that the approx $10k is for a mortgage, can the buyer then also be stuck with a few years of MF? Besides for a mortgage or MF, what other liens can be on the property?

Lastly, if the timeshare is being sold subject to a liens, then to where does the proceeds of the action go?

Thanks everyone for their help.

By looking at the recorded Judgement of the case you listed. You can also search for any liens or assignments. This judgement says it is for principal (implying a mortgage). Looking further it can be seen that DVC assigned Pam Financial the mortgage (first step in the foreclosure process) which backs this up more. This particular property has a lien for 2016 MF present also, which are not apart of the judgement and will need to be satisfied separately by the winner (plus future years).

If on the actual Auction website it links you directly to the recorded Judgement.

 

[mixmastertoy]

For Ebay auctions:
If any auction is with the beginning of TRA DONT USE THEM! They are scammers and you will have to fight to get your money back. I caught on quick and never sent them the money because I figured out it was a scam... most eBay auctions selling Disney timeshares are not legit ... bk assets is but most others are not.

 

[Alan Goldschmidt]

@crvetter Thanks for that. I see the principal (and other referenced to a loan), but how do you check the MF?

 

[crvetter]

@crvetter Thanks for that. I see the principal (and other referenced to a loan), but how do you check the MF?

There is no guarantee on finding out the MF but the judgement will list the Annual Dues as the reason it is going to foreclosure if it is going for that. As for how I found a lien for that property is I checked the Orange County Comptroller's website for a lien in their name which led me to seeing it for MF that haven't been satisfied (no satisfaction recorded).

I am not sure Disney has to tell you what the MF owed are (even if they did I'm sure it wouldn't be efficient enough for the timelines needed to bid). But I would always guess the higher side based on the liens if one exists for the MF.

I do want to iterate, again, this is a very involved process and doesn't involve title insurance (no protection against claims). So when you bid if the property isn't clear you must satisfy it all or you can lose the property yourself.

 

[gparr]

So...I am a little late,coming to the foreclosure party. I can speak from experience as ALL of my contracts have been purchased via the foreclosure auctions. Please understand one thing...no matter what you pay you WILL be responsible to pay any and all back fees with interest to Disney in order to get your contract up to date. Also you WILL NOT receive the points prior to the day Disney accepts the new deed. Your points will begin in the use year that is current. People think they will get back points...ain’t gonna happen. Once your new contract is put into your name there is no tie to the previous contract you bought. Take that into consideration when bidding. I can tell you I have been through literally hundreds if not into the thousands of auctions. You must do your homework...most contracts go for WAY more than buying resale. You have to know when to pass and move on.

Just my $.02...

 

[crvetter]

So...I am a little late,coming to the foreclosure party. I can speak from experience as ALL of my contracts have been purchased via the foreclosure auctions. Please understand one thing...no matter what you pay you WILL be responsible to pay any and all back fees with interest to Disney in order to get your contract up to date. Also you WILL NOT receive the points prior to the day Disney accepts the new deed. Your points will begin in the use year that is current. People think they will get back points...ain’t gonna happen. Once your new contract is put into your name there is no tie to the previous contract you bought. Take that into consideration when bidding. I can tell you I have been through literally hundreds if not into the thousands of auctions. You must do your homework...most contracts go for WAY more than buying resale. You have to know when to pass and move on.

Just my $.02...

Glad to have real world verification. By the nature of DVC's mechanics, everyone should expect you only get the current use year, since your account is locked as soon as you go delinquent preventing banking; therefore, prior Use Years will expire.

Also to point out you are responsible for the Fees not listed on the Judgement. Any listed on the Judgement the buyer doesn't need to pay as the foreclosure auction was to satisfy them. So 2017 MF is on the judgement then Disney can not collect that from the winner but 2018 and 2019 they can and will as you attested to. And again I want to iterate any other possible liens (third party mortgage, etc) can come claim you pay them if they were reasonably discovered during the time of the auction window.

 

[Alan Goldschmidt]

Glad to have real world verification. By the nature of DVC's mechanics, everyone should expect you only get the current use year, since your account is locked as soon as you go delinquent preventing banking; therefore, prior Use Years will expire.

Also to point out you are responsible for the Fees not listed on the Judgement. Any listed on the Judgement the buyer doesn't need to pay as the foreclosure auction was to satisfy them. So 2017 MF is on the judgement then Disney can not collect that from the winner but 2018 and 2019 they can and will as you attested to. And again I want to iterate any other possible liens (third party mortgage, etc) can come claim you pay them if they were reasonably discovered during the time of the auction window.

If the foreclosure is on the mortgage, wouldn't any junior mortgages be extinguished by the foreclosure auction? In such a case, I would assume that the only possible remaining liens are the MFs. As I understand, taxes are paid through the MF, so that shouldn't be a concern.

 

[crvetter]

If the foreclosure is on the mortgage, wouldn't any junior mortgages be extinguished by the foreclosure auction? In such a case, I would assume that the only possible remaining liens are the MFs. As I understand, taxes are paid through the MF, so that shouldn't be a concern.

No any junior mortgages are not extinguished in a foreclosure auction (only those items listed on the judgement are guaranteed to be extinguished). However if there is a profit on the foreclosure (above the judgement) that does go to the junior liens however anything above that is still attached to the property title. My original point was more Disney could foreclose on MF but someone had a third party mortgage that didn’t foreclose on the property but would need to be satisfied. So that would be a potential issue.

Also yes taxes on the WDW resorts are paid through the MF so that would be apart of the MF owed.

 

[Alan Goldschmidt]

No any junior mortgages are not extinguished in a foreclosure auction (only those items listed on the judgement are guaranteed to be extinguished). However if there is a profit on the foreclosure (above the judgement) that does go to the junior liens however anything above that is still attached to the property title. My original point was more Disney could foreclose on MF but someone had a third party mortgage that didn’t foreclose on the property but would need to be satisfied. So that would be a potential issue.

Also yes taxes on the WDW resorts are paid through the MF so that would be apart of the MF owed.

Is that law unique to Orange County or timeshares? Because I know that in most other jurisdictions, a foreclosure of a loan will extinguish any subordinate loans.

 

[mustinjourney]

Yep. I looked into this a couple of years ago when my contracts kept getting taken by ROFR. Don't go down this rabbit hole.

I was going to go down this rabbit hole 3 years ago and then found out it was usually not worth the effort.

 

[crvetter]

Is that law unique to Orange County or timeshares? Because I know that in most other jurisdictions, a foreclosure of a loan will extinguish any subordinate loans.

I think you are correct I was mistaken there. Based it on Orange County’s response when I asked. They told me anything not on the judgement was fair game. But they could easily have been mistaken

 

[Alan Goldschmidt]

Crazy part of all this is that these foreclosures still sell at a premium to the resale market for some reason.