Central Park “Karen”

I have zero hope( or desire) to change people's hearts are attitudes. I do however, want actions and laws to change.

The NY Governor is working on a reform agenda next week, called "Say Their Name." It adds/changes 4 civil rights laws. The pertinent one for this thread is: Prohibiting false race-based 911 reports and making them a crime. :thumbsup2

A second related law will be: Banning chokeholds by law enforcement officers. :thumbsup2
 
Gee, thanks for that benefit of the doubt. :rolleyes1

It DOES matter though - people’s attitudes matter. There already are laws against all the hate-fuelled, evil acts that are being committed by miscreants with twisted minds and dark hearts.

Yes, attitudes DO matter, but you can't force someone to like another person because you say they should. I am not at all saying that racism is right, just that distrust of others not like yourself is a pretty ingrained human trait. What this cop did was shocking and no one should be treated that way. At best that we can hope for right now is indifference from people. In that I mean, leave each other alone. I think that is as far as human nature has evolved unfortunately. And change has to be made by everyone. Everyone needs to treat each other better. I don't care what color someone is or where they are from, just be a decent person, and if you are not compatible, leave each other alone. What I think the real problem is in the police force is the "brotherhood code" where you don't turn in another cop when they see them doing something wrong. They should hold each other accountable. This is what needs to change, IMO.
 
You(general you)can hate black people all you want. As long as you aren't in a position of power(education, politics, law enforcement...) I don't care.
There is a common misperception on this thread that racism means hate. This leads many people who perform racist acts to claim: 'I'm not a racist, I don't hate anybody.' Attitudes that inhibit promotion or hiring in the workplace can be widespread yet not involve hate. Racism can also be opportunistic, like overcharging African Americans for their loans and mortgages.
 
There is a common misperception on this thread that racism means hate. This leads many people who perform racist acts to claim: 'I'm not a racist, I don't hate anybody.' Attitudes that inhibit promotion or hiring in the workplace can be widespread yet not involve hate. Racism can also be opportunistic, like overcharging African Americans for their loans and mortgages.

Or charging people more for getting their car fixed, or paying them less for doing the same job, etc. Sounds an awful like how woman are treated.
 


I think the BLM and Me too movements have a lot more in common than they don't. Lot's of things I can't get behind but standing up to subjugation of the powerless, not a stretch.
 
Yes it looks bad but you don't know anything about her or her life or what is happening with her. You don't know if this is her on an average day or on a really terrible day. No one wants to be judged by their worst actions. Maybe she is an awful person or maybe she is not. She did issue an apology. Perhaps a side of compassion with the snark and judgement.

I can accept that some people assume the worst when they meet a black man and a lot of people are honestly frightened of them and react in ways that are not entirely kindness based. It's a horrible approach to life, but it happens.

That's not what's going on here though. She plans (out loud) and executes a plot to falsely portray this man as attacking her to the 911 dispatcher, in retaliation for him expecting her to follow the leash laws. She knew what this meant or she wouldn't have used it as a threat to him before following through.
 
There is a common misperception on this thread that racism means hate. This leads many people who perform racist acts to claim: 'I'm not a racist, I don't hate anybody.' Attitudes that inhibit promotion or hiring in the workplace can be widespread yet not involve hate. Racism can also be opportunistic, like overcharging African Americans for their loans and mortgages.
Or say "I have friends that are " . Kills me when people go there since it's obvious they are clueless.
If your "friends" ever heard you say that out loud and didn't stop you gently then they are supplicants at worst or acquaintances at best. Or harbor their own racist thoughts which may or may not include you.

Same for comparing one minority's experience to another. Just a head slapping moment for me when that thought is uttered.
 


Yes, attitudes DO matter, but you can't force someone to like another person because you say they should. I am not at all saying that racism is right, just that distrust of others not like yourself is a pretty ingrained human trait.

I vehemently disagree with the above. It reminds me of these lyrics from "South Pacific"

You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.
You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.
You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!

 
I vehemently disagree with the above. It reminds me of these lyrics from "South Pacific"

You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.
You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.
You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!


You are talking about hate, no one said anything about hating someone JUST because of their skin color. I am talking about how there will be some people that you click with, and some that you just don't, regardless of skin color. I was taught that if you don't get along with someone, then let them be. You don't be mean or rude to them but just go your own way. Again, this is with ANYONE, including your own skin color. There are many different personalities out there and it is natural that not everyone will get along.
 
Or charging people more for getting their car fixed, or paying them less for doing the same job, etc. Sounds an awful like how woman are treated.
And to add to your excellent post, the two groups are not mutually exclusive.
 
I am not at all saying that racism is right, just that distrust of others not like yourself is a pretty ingrained human trait.

Yeah, anthropologists call it Tribalism. It stems from rejecting people who are not part of your tribe in order to maintain advantages you have. It goes way back, but it doesn't have to be that way. The human mind is capable of more noble thoughts.

.
 
AND, just regular people. My great grandfather and great uncle were sent to the camps for no reason. My grandmother's aunt and young cousins were one of those gathered in the center of town and shot down. See, this is my point. NO ONE knows that just regular people were all killed, sent to camps, experimented on, etc. All of the same things that all of those people that you listed were. This is what everyone needs to know.
I think pretty much everyone does know this. If your great grandfather and uncle were sent to the camps, it was probably because they spoke out -- in a climate where it was dangerous to speak out. You've read this poem by priest Martin Liemoller?

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
 
I think pretty much everyone does know this. If your great grandfather and uncle were sent to the camps, it was probably because they spoke out -- in a climate where it was dangerous to speak out. You've read this poem by priest Martin Liemoller?

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

I am glad that you know exactly what happened to my family. According to my grandmother, they did nothing. I don't know why you can't accept the fact that the average Polish person was treated horribly just because they existed. You are trying to find some "reason" for them to be treated that way and the FACT is there was none. There was no reason other then that Hitler and the Germans that followed him were nut jobs. Frankly, it is offensive that people keep downplaying how the Polish people were treated. Unless you were there and can give a first hand account like my grandparents and my dad were, then I think I'll take their word about how it really was over everyone here.
 
I think pretty much everyone does know this. If your great grandfather and uncle were sent to the camps, it was probably because they spoke out -- in a climate where it was dangerous to speak out. You've read this poem by priest Martin Liemoller?

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Ok, so you can quote a poem, but that does not discount the experience of this poster's family and millions of others across Europe. I am astounded that you believe you know more about this person's family than they do.

Edited to add some suggested reading material in the event you wish to educate yourself.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009Z11QS0/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
https://www.amazon.com/Waiting-Heard-Christian-Experience-Oppression/dp/1449013716
 
There already are laws against all the hate-fuelled, evil acts that are being committed by miscreants with twisted minds and dark hearts.
Yeah heroin's illegal too -- but how's that working out? Laws without attitude change will ultimately fail.
There is a common misperception on this thread that racism means hate.
I don't think it's just on this board. Hate is a pretty strong emotion -- most of us hate very few things. But, yes, racism can mean making assumptions about others /denying opportunities.
I am glad that you know exactly what happened to my family. According to my grandmother, they did nothing. I don't know why you can't accept the fact that the average Polish person was treated horribly just because they existed. You are trying to find some "reason" for them to be treated that way and the FACT is there was none. There was no reason other then that Hitler and the Germans that followed him were nut jobs. Frankly, it is offensive that people keep downplaying how the Polish people were treated. Unless you were there and can give a first hand account like my grandparents and my dad were, then I think I'll take their word about how it really was over everyone here.
I don't disbelieve that many people from many walks of life were sent to camps.
You realize that what I said about your family was a compliment? That "ordinary people" who were sent to camps often were sent because they spoke out against the things that were happening. If they were sent to camps, they were probably brave enough to stand against the status quo.
Ok, so you can quote a poem, but that does not discount the experience of this poster's family and millions of others across Europe. I am astounded that you believe you know more about this person's family than they do.
One of the best known poems about this time period.
 
You would be amazed at how little people actually know about the war. Every single person that I have talked to in person had no idea that non-Jewish Poles were also killed and/or sent to the concentration camps. I have even come across people who thought that the Polish people were HELPING the Nazis to kill the Jews. Although YOU know more about the war, that does not mean that the everyone does. I am sure if you took a poll just on these boards, you will find plenty that had no knowledge that they sent non-Jews to the camps and just out right murdered them, or that they took people as slaves.

And just because "every single person you've talked to in person" had a knowledge gap or some wrong ideas doesn't mean that NO ONE knows the atrocities of WWII. Many people do. Some people know because it's their family history, as you and I do. There's also people who may know about it, but don't realize it is their family history also because in many families the pain was such that it became something very much not talked about, ever, so that over the years and generations the idea of personal connection was lost.

For years I only knew about two branches of my family tree suffering in the atrocities, one being the Poles, the other being Jewish. It's only been in very recent years I've learned that other branches of my family tree were pruned in the horror as well. I have a very ethnically diverse background and each branch that was targeted was for different reasons.
 
Yeah heroin's illegal too -- but how's that working out? Laws without attitude change will ultimately fail.
I don't think it's just on this board. Hate is a pretty strong emotion -- most of us hate very few things. But, yes, racism can mean making assumptions about others /denying opportunities.
I don't disbelieve that many people from many walks of life were sent to camps.
You realize that what I said about your family was a compliment? That "ordinary people" who were sent to camps often were sent because they spoke out against the things that were happening. If they were sent to camps, they were probably brave enough to stand against the status quo.
One of the best known poems about this time period.
::yes:: That was actually my point. I was responding to a person who commented they didn't care who hates who in their hearts and minds, as long as laws and actions change.
 
"7:31pm this woman felt the need to not only approach me but call the cops MULTIPLE TIMES ON ME!! She was too “Alarmed” that I was sitting “comfortably” in “her neighborhood!” The first call was because she THOUGHT I was smoking in public.. but by the 3rd call, it was bcuz I was “threatening her & her children !!” While giving my description, she exaggerated her story & made it seem like I was the aggressor. “THIS AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMAN IS ATTACKING ME AND MY CHILDREN!” She had tears that were off & on & she stated things like “She’s pulling the black card!” Then wanted me to walk to the boys w/ her 🤦🏾‍♀️🤡 I probably could have just walked away!! I probably should have kept my mouth shut right ?! NAHHH!! I couldn’t understand why she was so mad ! Like ummmm first of alllll I pay alllll mine over here Miss Lady !! 🙄 How you come over here just feeling sooooo privileged & soooo comfortable enough to tell me I should leave ?! You’re buggin !! NOT THIS ONE!! She wanted to be a victim soooo bad!! NOT ONE PERSON CAME TO HER AID!! MULTIPLE PPL witnessed the ordeal & just wanted to make sure I was ok! "

https://ny.eater.com/2020/6/2/21278346/french-restaurant-maison-vivienne-under-fire-calls-to-police
Smart lady vs not so smart lady.
 
"7:31pm this woman felt the need to not only approach me but call the cops MULTIPLE TIMES ON ME!! She was too “Alarmed” that I was sitting “comfortably” in “her neighborhood!” The first call was because she THOUGHT I was smoking in public.. but by the 3rd call, it was bcuz I was “threatening her & her children !!” While giving my description, she exaggerated her story & made it seem like I was the aggressor. “THIS AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMAN IS ATTACKING ME AND MY CHILDREN!” She had tears that were off & on & she stated things like “She’s pulling the black card!” Then wanted me to walk to the boys w/ her 🤦🏾‍♀️🤡 I probably could have just walked away!! I probably should have kept my mouth shut right ?! NAHHH!! I couldn’t understand why she was so mad ! Like ummmm first of alllll I pay alllll mine over here Miss Lady !! 🙄 How you come over here just feeling sooooo privileged & soooo comfortable enough to tell me I should leave ?! You’re buggin !! NOT THIS ONE!! She wanted to be a victim soooo bad!! NOT ONE PERSON CAME TO HER AID!! MULTIPLE PPL witnessed the ordeal & just wanted to make sure I was ok! "

https://ny.eater.com/2020/6/2/21278346/french-restaurant-maison-vivienne-under-fire-calls-to-police
Smart lady vs not so smart lady.
I think she can kiss her restaurant business goodbye... I will never understand how someone can feel so entitled as to call the cops on someone else who is just sitting on a bench... just wow
 

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