College entrance cheating scandal

[tcufrog]

Honestly, I'd never heard of the show until the college cheating scandal happened.

 

[Imzadi]

TMZ got a snippet of some video posted on social media, of Lori Loughlin's daughter, Olivia Jade back at college. However, she is NOT going back to college as a student. Just as she has said she had always and ONLY wanted to go to college for: the parties on campus. She has successfully reintegrated herself back into college party life.

Daymond John, of Shark Tank, had said, when interviewed, that he thinks Olivia Jade could potentially get her business back on track if she does things right. There she was with some of her college followers who haven't dumped her. So she could possibly rebuild her brand & business.

It also proves as I said before on this thread, she never really needed to go to college to be successful. Her parents could have just spent $250,000 on helping her launch her business instead of paying someone to get her into college, which she never wanted to do.

 

[Imzadi]

The latest on Lori Loughlin & DH's defense and why they haven't taken the plea deal. The case hinges on knowledge & intent of bribery and intention to defraud the university. Their lawyers are arguing that, yes, like about 1600 other parents over many years, they paid Rick Singer $500,000, as a consultant, to get their kids into USC. They are claiming they did NOT know what or how Singer would use that money for, (bribing the coach) or how he would use the photos of the girls posing on rowing machines for. They supposedly just supplied the photos without ever asking what the photos would be used for. They figured he just wanted photos of the girls just being healthy, fit and well rounded, doing activities they may be interested in.

Mossimo did give $100,000 directly to the rowing coach. But he's saying it was to buy sports equipment for the college. That is NOT an illegal activity. As many others here have pointed out, donations to colleges, to buy by a wing named after them, etc., so that the admissions standards are lowered or dropped so their kids get in, is done all the time. They were just doing the same. So, his lawyers are claiming the money went for equipment, not a bribe.

Their defense lawyers are saying there are huge holes for the Prosecution to prove they had knowledge of any bribery. They think they have enough reasonable doubt to get the Lori & Mossimo off.

Here is the blurb from TMZ:

https://www.tmz.com/2019/04/24/lori-loughlin-mossimo-giannulli-college-bribery-scandal-olivia-jade-defense/

 

[arminnie]

The latest on Lori Loughlin & DH's defense and why they haven't taken the plea deal. The case hinges on knowledge & intent of bribery and intention to defraud the university. Their lawyers are arguing that, yes, like about 1600 other parents over many years, they paid Rick Singer $500,000, as a consultant, to get their kids into USC. They are claiming they did NOT know what or how Singer would use that money for, (bribing the coach) or how he would use the photos of the girls posing on rowing machines for. They supposedly just supplied the photos without ever asking what the photos would be used for. They figured he just wanted photos of the girls just being healthy, fit and well rounded, doing activities they may be interested in.

Mossimo did give $100,000 directly to the rowing coach. But he's saying it was to buy sports equipment for the college. That is NOT an illegal activity. As many others here have pointed out, donations to colleges, to buy by a wing named after them, etc., so that the admissions standards are lowered or dropped so their kids get in, is done all the time. They were just doing the same. So, his lawyers are claiming the money went for equipment, not a bribe.

Their defense lawyers are saying there are huge holes for the Prosecution to prove they had knowledge of any bribery. They think they have enough reasonable doubt to get the Lori & Mossimo off.

Here is the blurb from TMZ:

https://www.tmz.com/2019/04/24/lori-loughlin-mossimo-giannulli-college-bribery-scandal-olivia-jade-defense/

I don't know if they would be better with a jury trial or a judge trial. Most comments that I see on multiple sites say to crucify her. But most judges will also have that attitude towards her blatant disregard of the law.

One had to either by lying or stupid as dog turds to think that bribing someone with half a million dollars is OK.

 

[cabanafrau]

I'm more curious to see what churns out after the stay on motions in order to receive all discovery and evaluate it. It will be interesting to see if they dance another dance when they see what the government is relying on, or if they double down and proceed to trial.

 

[mnrose]

Oh good grief. Apparently, they are relying on the "there's a sucker born every minute" defense, and that there are a whole bunch of 'em on the jury. Or, at least one. Not enough eye rolls in the world for this. Of COURSE THEY KNEW. Also I'll bet there are some tapes that show knowledge. Just like with Felicity Huffman. This case wasn't brought on a whim.

 

[mom2rtk]

Since when is ignorance of the law an accepted excuse?

 

[Imzadi]

Since when is ignorance of the law an accepted excuse?

They aren't claiming ignorance of the law. They are claiming they didn't know what the ringleader did with their money & photos. Basically HE did all the illegal stuff. They were "innocent" customers, only buying services he supplied to 1600 other people he got into colleges. Donating to colleges isn't illegal. So they are saying they didn't know HE crossed the line to bribing the coach and defrauding the college with phony photos HE asked for and doctored the girls profiles. Posing for pics on a rowing machine isn't, of itself, illegal.

Oh good grief. Apparently, they are relying on the "there's a sucker born every minute" defense, and that there are a whole bunch of 'em on the jury. Or, at least one. Not enough eye rolls in the world for this. Of COURSE THEY KNEW. Also I'll bet there are some tapes that show knowledge. Just like with Felicity Huffman. This case wasn't brought on a whim.

It's kind of the same defense a getaway driver uses. Their friend, whom they happen to be driving to some location like a bank or convenience store, wants them to park in the deserted alley around the back and leave the car running, while waiting for him to get back. Then the friend comes running back, all panicked and tells the driver to, "GO!!! Just GO!!! HURRY!!!" But the driver later claims they didn't know what it was all about.

 

[smiths02]

The latest on Lori Loughlin & DH's defense and why they haven't taken the plea deal. The case hinges on knowledge & intent of bribery and intention to defraud the university. Their lawyers are arguing that, yes, like about 1600 other parents over many years, they paid Rick Singer $500,000, as a consultant, to get their kids into USC. They are claiming they did NOT know what or how Singer would use that money for, (bribing the coach) or how he would use the photos of the girls posing on rowing machines for. They supposedly just supplied the photos without ever asking what the photos would be used for. They figured he just wanted photos of the girls just being healthy, fit and well rounded, doing activities they may be interested in.

Mossimo did give $100,000 directly to the rowing coach. But he's saying it was to buy sports equipment for the college. That is NOT an illegal activity. As many others here have pointed out, donations to colleges, to buy by a wing named after them, etc., so that the admissions standards are lowered or dropped so their kids get in, is done all the time. They were just doing the same. So, his lawyers are claiming the money went for equipment, not a bribe.

Their defense lawyers are saying there are huge holes for the Prosecution to prove they had knowledge of any bribery. They think they have enough reasonable doubt to get the Lori & Mossimo off.

Here is the blurb from TMZ:

https://www.tmz.com/2019/04/24/lori-loughlin-mossimo-giannulli-college-bribery-scandal-olivia-jade-defense/

I don't know if they would be better with a jury trial or a judge trial. Most comments that I see on multiple sites say to crucify her. But most judges will also have that attitude towards her blatant disregard of the law.

One had to either by lying or stupid as dog turds to think that bribing someone with half a million dollars is OK.

They aren't claiming ignorance of the law. They are claiming they didn't know what the ringleader did with their money & photos. Basically HE did all the illegal stuff. They were "innocent" customers, only buying services he supplied to 1600 other people he got into colleges.





It's kind of the same defense a getaway driver uses. Their friend, whom they happen to be driving to some location like a bank or convenience store, wants them to park in the deserted alley around the back and leave the car running, while waiting for him to get back. Then the friend comes running back, all panicked and tells the driver to, "GO!!! Just GO!!! HURRY!!!" But the driver later claims they didn't know what it was all about.

I don't know what kind of money $250,000 is to these people, but we are supposed to believe that they hired someone and paid the person $250,000 (per kid, right?) and had no idea how this would be accomplished?

 

[cabanafrau]

It's kind of the same defense a getaway driver uses. Their friend, whom they happen to be driving to some location like a bank or convenience store, wants them to park in the deserted alley around the back and leave the car running, while waiting for him to get back. Then the friend comes running back, all panicked and tells the driver to, "GO!!! Just GO!!! HURRY!!!" But the driver later claims they didn't know what it was all about.

To be fair, it's actually not incredibly uncommon for getaway drivers to be completely unaware. I'm aware of it in over a dozen cases at least.

I'm not suggesting that I think the parents charged in this scam were not complicit or were somehow unaware of their actions.

 

[Imzadi]

To be fair, it's actually not incredibly uncommon for getaway drivers to be completely unaware. I'm aware of it in over a dozen cases at least.

I'm not suggesting that I think the parents charged in this scam were not complicit or were somehow unaware of their actions.

Supposedly, Lori & DH are claiming the same thing. According to how TMZ is trying to explain it, WE all know, in the aftermath of it all, the way the prosecutors have detailed all that has happened. What's legal and what's not and how it went down. But, supposedly, Lori & DH are claiming they didn't know what was going down waas done illegally. Only knew that this consultant has been doing this for more than a decade, with 1600 other rich parents and was very good at what he did. HE claimed he knew the right connections and what to do to get their DDs into USC. How would they know he wasn't doing what the consultants who do it legally do? He just had a better track record.

A couple pages back, I posted how Dr Dre, of Beats Audio paid, I think it was $17 MILLION to start a whole art & music school at USC (I think.) Then his DD just "happened" to get accepted there. That was all legal. He still probably hired somebody to make the right connections at USC, discuss the deal, so the deal could be made. He probably wasn't in on every detail that went down.

Supposedly, Lori & DH are claiming the same thing. They hired a consultant. HE did the illegal stuff. They didn't know what was going down as it happened. They only wanted the result he promised: their DDs would be going to USC. That is what their defense lawyers are claiming. Dr. Dre can spend $17 million & get his DD into a college and IT'S LEGAL. But, they spend $500,000 to a consultant and they are supposed to know he's NOT doing it legally? They are claiming they didn't know he would do it that way. (Or something like that. Harvey Levin talks A LOT on TMZ Live. Sometimes he & the other TMZ lawyers argue amongst themselves about what they think is happening & if it will work. This case is one of them. Harvey thinks Lori & DH might possibly get away with it, if they have the right jury & can poke holes in the prosecution's case that they KNEW what he was doing. Some of the other TMZ lawyers, say, "Nope! Nope! Nope! How stupid can these two parents be to NOT have asked any questions as to how he would be doing it and what are the rowing pics for?" So, supposedly, it will be up to the jury, like a getaway driver, did they KNOW something illegal was happening?)

 

[cabanafrau]

Supposedly, Lori & DH are claiming the same thing. According to how TMZ is trying to explain it, WE all know, in the aftermath of it all, the way the prosecutors have detailed all that has happened. What's legal and what's not and how it went down. But, supposedly, Lori & DH are claiming they didn't know what was going down waas done illegally. Only knew that this consultant has been doing this for more than a decade, with 1600 other rich parents and was very good at what he did. HE claimed he knew the right connections and what to do to get their DDs into USC. How would they know he wasn't doing what the consultants who do it legally do? He just had a better track record.

A couple pages back, I posted how Dr Dre, of Beats Audio paid, I think it was $17 MILLION to start a whole art & music school at USC (I think.) Then his DD just "happened" to get accepted there. That was all legal. He still probably hired somebody to make the right connections at USC, discuss the deal, so the deal could be made. He probably wasn't in on every detail that went down.

Supposedly, Lori & DH are claiming the same thing. They hired a consultant. HE did the illegal stuff. They didn't know what was going down as it happened. They only wanted the result he promised: their DDs would be going to USC. That is what their defense lawyers are claiming. Dr. Dre can spend $17 million & get his DD into a college and IT'S LEGAL. But, they spend $500,000 to a consultant and they are supposed to know he's NOT doing it legally? They are claiming they didn't know he would do it that way. (Or something like that. Harvey Levin talks A LOT on TMZ Live. Sometimes he & the other TMZ lawyers argue amongst themselves about what they think is happening & if it will work. This case is one of them. Harvey thinks Lori & DH might possibly get away with it, if they have the right jury & can poke holes in the prosecution's case that they KNEW what he was doing. Some of the other TMZ lawyers, say, "Nope! Nope! Nope! How stupid can these two parents be to NOT have asked any questions as to how he would be doing it and what are the rowing pics for?" So, supposedly, it will be up to the jury, like a getaway driver, did they KNOW something illegal was happening?)

Here's how it can, and actually has, differed in regards to getaway drivers. I know of a case where a couple (non married, but long-term living together) at one point found themselves in financial circumstances where they were forced to manage for quite some time with only one car. One partner was able to use public transit to get back and forth from work. One partner worked an afternoon shift, getting off work at maybe 11 p.m. When the partner who worked the day shift needed a vehicle after work the one who worked afternoons could get public transit to work and leave the car home, but needed a ride home after work. Day shift partner picked up afternoon shift partner after work and stopped at a store on the way home when asked. Didn't realize until much later that their partner asked for the stop at the very last moment after they had turned the corner where the store was, asking to pull in from the side parking lot entrance and just said, eh, just park right here, which was on the side of the store, not the front. Arrests weren't made until several days later and there was nothing in news reports about the type of vehicle involved.

In the end police and prosecutors became convinced by all of the information that they uncovered that day shift partner had in fact been a completely unwitting getaway driver. It's not the only case I'm aware of here where a getaway driver was completely in the dark.

As far as Dr. Dre., I believe the donation was $70 million and also involved Jimmy Iovine and their corporate interests. I'd imagine it was also handled via their attorneys dealing directly with the university's endowment team or whatever the appropriate department and/or personnel at the university might have been.

 

[jdb in AZ]

I don't know if they would be better with a jury trial or a judge trial. Most comments that I see on multiple sites say to crucify her. But most judges will also have that attitude towards her blatant disregard of the law.

One had to either by lying or stupid as dog turds to think that bribing someone with half a million dollars is OK.

If the parents are that stupid, that could help explain why the DD's are such poor students they can't get into a decent college without help. The apples didn't fall far from the tree?

 

[jdb in AZ]

Supposedly, Lori & DH are claiming the same thing. According to how TMZ is trying to explain it, WE all know, in the aftermath of it all, the way the prosecutors have detailed all that has happened. What's legal and what's not and how it went down. But, supposedly, Lori & DH are claiming they didn't know what was going down waas done illegally. Only knew that this consultant has been doing this for more than a decade, with 1600 other rich parents and was very good at what he did. HE claimed he knew the right connections and what to do to get their DDs into USC. How would they know he wasn't doing what the consultants who do it legally do? He just had a better track record.

Some of the other TMZ lawyers, say, "Nope! Nope! Nope! How stupid can these two parents be to NOT have asked any questions as to how he would be doing it and what are the rowing pics for?" So, supposedly, it will be up to the jury, like a getaway driver, did they KNOW something illegal was happening?)

The rowing pictures were photo-shopped, so if the parents really didn't know what the consultant was doing (yeah right) they could claim the consultant just used existing pics of the wanna-be student (who really didn't wanna be there to begin with.)

If the parents claim the would-be student wasn't aware of what was going on, wouldn't the student have received a scholarship letter welcoming them to USC and the rowing team?

 

[gwynne]

Edited...went back and read details.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

The rowing pictures were photo-shopped, so if the parents really didn't know what the consultant was doing (yeah right) they could claim the consultant just used existing pics of the wanna-be student (who really didn't wanna be there to begin with.)

If the parents claim the would-be student wasn't aware of what was going on, wouldn't the student have received a scholarship letter welcoming them to USC and the rowing team?

No because they weren't applying for an actual rowing scholarship and the rowing coach knew it. They were having whatever coach they bribed put in a word for them with admissions

 

[tex1989]

Unfortunately logic is not always accepted in a court of law. You bend and circumvent truths and implied intentions to look at the situation and in so doing make the defendents look either really gullable or just down right stupid. Mossimo as a businessman who ran a multi million dollar company would never spend that kind of money without knowing exactly what it was paying for. Sorry bend the facts any way you want he knew. Yes proving it may be difficult but I think it is obvious he knew what they were up to. Next did the money paid to the rowing coach appear as a bribe, or a donation? Simple answer, he is a businessman and if it was a donation it would have been listed as such on his tax return of the tax return of his company if it was paid by them. Next did the coach pocket the money, or buy things for the team? All of these defense claims are easily born out by subsiquint actions. Do you think Dr. Dre gave $17 million and took no deduction for it? Heck no! I don't care how rich you are, you are not that careless with your money, if you earned it via building a company and a brand. As an entertainer you could be that careless because it is all over the news about those who have gone bankrupt or been stupid with their money, Nick Cage anyone, Johnny Depp maybe? They earned money the "easy" way. Earn it the way Mossimo did building a brand and a business and you are much more aware of expense.


I just don't buy the whole we didn't know what we were paying for argument.

 

[Imzadi]

As far as Dr. Dre., I believe the donation was $70 million and also involved Jimmy Iovine and their corporate interests. I'd imagine it was also handled via their attorneys dealing directly with the university's endowment team or whatever the appropriate department and/or personnel at the university might have been.

Oh yes. $70 million. That was an unfathomable number to me the first time I read it. That's why that huge number didn't stick in my head.

But, the point Harvey Levin tried to make is, if Lori & Mossimo had hired whomever Dr, Dre & Jimmy Iovine had, it would have been done legally and they'd be in the clear. They just, unfortunately, went to Rick Singer, who happened to use tactics like bribing coaches & forging documents. But, they, themselves didn't know they had hired a lying cheat. They allegedly did what he said and knew it was wrong, but they didn't think it was illegal.

If the parents are that stupid, that could help explain why the DD's are such poor students they can't get into a decent college without help. The apples didn't fall far from the tree?

Yes, I'm beginning to wonder if Lori & Mossimo aren't really as dumb as they are appearing to be. They didn't accept the first plea deal. Now they are listening & following their lawyers' strategy of defense. Maybe they have some lawyers who are really skilled and have the self-confidence & audacity that OJ Simpson's lawyer, Johnny Cochran had, telling OJ, "Don't worry, I'll just say, "If the glove don't fit, you must acquit. And you just try on the glove, pretending to have to yank it on, like it doesn't fit. That, and the stupid jury we have, who won't be able to figure out what DNA evidence is, no matter how many charts the medical professionals put up about it, and I've got you an acquittal, EASY!"

Either Lori & Mossimo's lawyers are that good and they are betting on that. Or they are so stupid, and their lawyers know that and have told them this outlandish defense strategy, thinking, "What the heck, we might as well go for it. They want us to try something. There's a 2% chance it might work, (and we told them and they just don't get it or care.) If we have a few jury members also as stupid as they are and would have just blindly followed whatever a consultant told them, they might get off with reasonable doubt."

Sorry bend the facts any way you want he knew. Yes proving it may be difficult. . .

According to Harvey Levin, that apparently is the what the defense is hinging on currently. The other guys at TMZ were all, "Oh come on! They knew!" But, whether they knew their actions were illegal, is what needs to be proven. For instance, when Dr. Dre's people had a meeting with the heads of USC, and said, "Sr. Dre & Jimmy Iovine would like to donate $70 million," [corrected from my inaccurate $17 million in a previous post,] "to start an art & music school here. The kind of art & music school in which Dr. Dre's own daughter, who graduates in 2019, would be proud to attend. . ." <cough! cough!> That's kind of a bribe.

And when the heads of USC said, "We look forward to Dr. Dre's daughter's graduation and to seeing her application to here. . ." That's bribe accepted. They just did it legally, making sure to cross all T's & dot all I's legally. Allegedly, Lori & Mossimo are saying they didn't know it wasn't happening the same way. Before this all went down, it wouldn't have occurred to them to check & see how Dr. Dre & others are doing it, to make sure their guy is doing it legally, too. We all know this after the fact, that it wasn't. They probably thought they got a good deal at only $500,000.

They are probably saying, it's that saying, "If you think it's too good to be true, it IS too good to be true," bit them both in the butts.

Rick Singer had been doing this over a decade. He must not have been that hard for rich parents to find. He had helped about 1600 other parents get their kids into colleges. Even the Feds didn't know he had been doing anything illegal till another criminal tipped them off to get his own plea deal. How & why would Lori & Mossimo have been expected to know he was doing illegal tactics?


BTW, I'm not defending them. I'm saying what TMZ said seems to be their current legal defense.

 

[starry_solo]

I'll have to listen to Harvey Levin/TMZ, but I don't think they (the feds) need to show that the defendants knew their actions were illegal. They just have to show that they had an intent.

If we knew what statute the feds were relying upon, we could go look that up.

Wait, here it is:
https://www.npr.org/2019/04/09/7114...-on-new-charges-in-college-admissions-scandal

18 USC 1349
18 USC 1956(h)

18 USC 1349 says: "Any person who attempts or conspires to commit any offense under this chapter shall be subject to the same penalties as those prescribed for the offense, the commission of which was the object of the attempt or conspiracy."

18 USC 1956(h) says: "Any person who conspires to commit any offense defined in this section or section 1957 shall be subject to the same penalties as those prescribed for the offense the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy."

OK, now to go look at the rest of the indictment to see what other sections are cited:
18 USC 1341, 1343, 1346

 

[Imzadi]

I'll have to listen to Harvey Levin/TMZ, but I don't think they (the feds) need to show that the defendants knew their actions were illegal. They just have to show that they had an intent.

I said that in my post #643 with the update. I even italicized the part where it said intent to defraud. According to Lori & Mossimo's defense attorneys, the prosecution doesn't even have solid enough evidence on the intent. That's when all the guys on TMZ Live started yelling back & forth at each other. I started to get a headache. One lawyer said, if there's enough for reasonable doubt, that could be enough to get them off. (Or maybe get a lower plea deal?)

The latest on Lori Loughlin & DH's defense and why they haven't taken the plea deal. The case hinges on knowledge & intent of bribery and intention to defraud the university. Their lawyers are arguing that, yes, like about 1600 other parents over many years, they paid Rick Singer $500,000, as a consultant, to get their kids into USC. They are claiming they did NOT know what or how Singer would use that money for, (bribing the coach) or how he would use the photos of the girls posing on rowing machines for. They supposedly just supplied the photos without ever asking what the photos would be used for. They figured he just wanted photos of the girls just being healthy, fit and well rounded, doing activities they may be interested in.

Mossimo did give $100,000 directly to the rowing coach. But he's saying it was to buy sports equipment for the college. That is NOT an illegal activity. As many others here have pointed out, donations to colleges, to buy by a wing named after them, etc., so that the admissions standards are lowered or dropped so their kids get in, is done all the time. They were just doing the same. So, his lawyers are claiming the money went for equipment, not a bribe.

Their defense lawyers are saying there are huge holes for the Prosecution to prove they had knowledge of any bribery. They think they have enough reasonable doubt to get the Lori & Mossimo off.

Here is the blurb from TMZ:

https://www.tmz.com/2019/04/24/lori-loughlin-mossimo-giannulli-college-bribery-scandal-olivia-jade-defense/