DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[Liquidice]

I was wondering the same thing. Can anyone go up and request a rider swap? If so that seems particularly rife for abuse.

For example, let’s say a group of adults with questionable morales wants to ride Slinky
Adult 1 says they need to rider swap, so their band gets scanned and Adult 2 joins the line.
A few minutes later Adult 2 leaves the line.
Adult 1 and “friend” enter the LL.

This works very neatly with any even number of riders. For odd number of riders, take turns being the one to “sit out."

Because the “friend” doesn’t even need to swipe in, they could immediately get off the ride and become the next “Adult 2.”

Repeat ad nauseum.

There needs to be some mechanism preventing the LL from being abused. The only reason why it works with traditional rider swap is that someone HAS to stay with the “baby,” so it is self policing.

Rider Switch exists today like I described it - so it could be abused right now I suppose.

The LL is only for 2 people though, so it is more difficult to abuse with large parties and someone in theory gets left out.

I guess if you had someone that never wanted to ride, they could be the one to pretend to go through the standby line while the other 2 people got a LL.

The way it works today is usually 1 person is waiting outside because they don't want to ride though - so that person would not get a LL or a standby.

It is easy enough to say my friend is scared of rollercoasters and doesn't want to ride SDD, so I'm waiting outside with my friend and my other friend is going through standby.

CMs usually won't issue a Rider Switch Lightning Lane to the person getting in the standby line. I suppose if there are only 2 of you, they might be willing to do that and then the other person could easily hop out of line.

Still, it limits your party in the LL to just 2. Yes maybe it could be abused, but it is a much smaller group and it would require a little more planning / walking to each attraction, setting up the RS, 1 person hopping out of line.

Remember, Disney's goal here is primarily to reduce the number of people in the Lightning Lane.

EDIT: Its still possible there will be a requirement to sign up for Disability Rider Switch or some modifications to Rider Switch. I obviously don't really know, just describing how Rider Switch works today and based on the Disneyland Accessibility Planning Guide trying to estimate how it would work in practice.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Aren't they supposed to be using the health company they used during covid in conjunction with CMs? That is what I'm understanding. So the decision might not rest solely with the CM. Just wondered if paperwork explaining why someone has trouble in lines might help a person's chances. This would actually take the onus off the CM.

I think primarily it's because interpreting, reading, etc of medical paperwork is outside of a CM's wheelhouse. You would need to train the CMs for even the basic understanding of a wide enough range of information to look for. I'm not saying CMs don't already have a lot of things they have to go over with people requesting DAS as is just that looking over medical documentation is a different skillset.

Over at Universal they are saying first a person goes through IBCCES to get an Individual Accessibility Card and only after that does a TM discuss with a person "their request for an attraction queue accommodation."

Universal explicitly states "Only IBCCES can issue the IBCCES Accessibility Card, and not Universal Orlando"

Not going into what ever issues people have brought up with IBCCES just saying the process for medical documentation is handled 3rd party first over at Universal before involving a TM.

 

[TwoMisfits]

What?

This was an answer to a non-disabled poster who asked how he and his disabled mom would work rider swap when he never wanted to ride without her b/c he's sick of most rides. He would likely not have to actually enter a ride vehicle and ride if he waited through the line and then spoke to the CM at the load area. The wait will be necessary. The actual enjoyment of the original ride - probably not.

 

[Evita_W]

My biggest question is how do they plan on us getting out of line? For me, and probably a lot of those with IBD, we need to be able to exit immediately and head to the bathroom. Fighting to the entrance, merge point or loading platform then finding a CM and informing them of the issue before obtaining a pass is NOT a viable option.

This has been my point when Disneyland started to no longer issue DAS for bathroom issues, but everyone said it isn’t an issue. And then add in mobility devices on top of it that many need to use.

 

[GoingSince1990]

I was wondering the same thing. Can anyone go up and request a rider swap? If so that seems particularly rife for abuse.

For example, let’s say a group of adults with questionable morales wants to ride Slinky
Adult 1 says they need to rider swap, so their band gets scanned and Adult 2 joins the line.
A few minutes later Adult 2 leaves the line.
Adult 1 and “friend” enter the LL.

This works very neatly with any even number of riders. For odd number of riders, take turns being the one to “sit out."

Because the “friend” doesn’t even need to swipe in, they could immediately get off the ride and become the next “Adult 2.”

Repeat ad nauseum.

There needs to be some mechanism preventing the LL from being abused. The only reason why it works with traditional rider swap is that someone HAS to stay with the “baby,” so it is self policing.

I suspect that rider switch as a disability accommodation will be something that needs to be registered in advance, just like DAS, based on the interview about medical needs. As you say, groups of people being able to randomly say to the CM at a ride entrance “my friend has IBS, we need a rider switch” would be much too open to abuse.

 

[elvispursley]

I'm in that boat with others where we are a party of 2 and I can't leave my mom alone. Wondering how in the world "rider swap" would even remotely work, since we're all speculating?

 

[ClaraOswald]

In the reply I received, the following was stated:

"If your visit begins May 20, 2024 or later:
Beginning May 20 at the Walt Disney World Resort, there will be an updated process for Accessibility Services conversations. Guests can learn more on our website for Guests with disabilities. In this video discussion, health care professionals may be available, if needed, to help determine appropriate accommodations. Guests will not be asked for medical documentation.

Please know we will not determine any Guest’s future eligibility until our processes are updated on May 20."

"Guests will not be asked for medical documentation." Wonder if we can volunteer to supply the info. Would not be against ADA because the person with the disability wants to provide the info.

"Please know we will not determine any Guest’s future eligibility until our processes are updated on May 20." Our trip is set to begin May 26. So, say even if I can speak to someone on April 27th, does this mean I will get no answer regarding me getting DAS until May 20th OR does this mean we have to wait to speak to someone until May 20? Disney, as usual, is as clear as swamp water.

This concerns me. Our next trip is Disneyland....on June 18th, the day it starts there. If we can't register ahead of time, online....we'll have to do it outside the gates the morning of the 18th. And if a TON of people are doing it...how the heck will that work? I guess we lose a massive chunk of our day waiting in the line. Well, my son wouldn't be able to tolerate a long line (hence the need for DAS) so I guess I'd be the one losing my morning. Though not sure how that will work because my son won't want to enter the parks without both parents. So I guess my husband and son will have to literally walk laps within view of me at the esplanade. I try not to be a Karen but if that's the scenario that plays out on June 18th, my inner Karen may have to make an appearance.....

(Not to mention if we somehow didn't qualify.....we'll have to try to re-tool our trip right there on the spot. Ugh.)

 

[starlite_]

This has been my point when Disneyland started to no longer issue DAS for bathroom issues, but everyone said it isn’t an issue. And then add in mobility devices on top of it that many need to use.

If the solution offered is the Rider Switch, then folks with bathroom issues + probably 1 companion (even those with mobility devices) would be able to wait outside the line from the start, no need for them to enter stand-by at all. And enter the LL once the rest of their party finish riding via stand-by.

 

[hulagirl87]

I just had to call the main Disney number to ask about a ticket question, but asked if she had already been asked a million DAS questions and she said yes. I asked what happens when dates overlap as our trip starts the 18th and goes through the 20th and she said no changes will affect us since we would already have the pass prior to the change.

 

[Disneychick75]

I think primarily it's because interpreting, reading, etc of medical paperwork is outside of a CM's wheelhouse. You would need to train the CMs for even the basic understanding of a wide enough range of information to look for. I'm not saying CMs don't already have a lot of things they have to go over with people requesting DAS as is just that looking over medical documentation is a different skillset.

Over at Universal they are saying first a person goes through IBCCES to get an Individual Accessibility Card and only after that does a TM discuss with a person "their request for an attraction queue accommodation."

Universal explicitly states "Only IBCCES can issue the IBCCES Accessibility Card, and not Universal Orlando"

Not going into what ever issues people have brought up with IBCCES just saying the process for medical documentation is handled 3rd party first over at Universal before involving a TM.

But that is where the health pros working with DAS come into play.
"The parks will hire more cast members overall and provide more training so additional workers can help guests better understand Disney's accessibility offerings. Disney will work with health professionals from Health Alliance, a health insurer, as needed to determine the eligibility of DAS applicants."

K, edited because the LA Times article states:

"The announced changes will go into effect May 20 at Disney World and June 18 at Disneyland.

They include:

• The parks will hire more cast members overall and provide more training so additional workers can help guests better understand Disney’s accessibility offerings.
• Disney will work with health professionals from Health Alliance, a health insurer, as needed to determine the eligibility of DAS applicants.
• The DAS verification will be extended, with passes expiring in 120 days instead of 60.
• Pass party sizes will be limited to three people plus the pass holder."

https://www.latimes.com/california/...tes-disability-access-service-to-cut-down-on- abusers#:~:text=The%20parks%20will%20hire%20more,the%20eligibility%20of%20DAS%20applicants.

 

[OregonRN]

Reading over all of this has made me so anxious for my upcoming trip at the end of May. I’m having a difficult time understanding how having people take space in standby and then take up space in LL is making waits less? I get if the family is large but a family of 3 or 4? Is it really going to make a significant difference? The increased difficulty, humiliation, anxiety, and regret to those people who were previously covered makes me sad.

 

[Gentry2004]

Honestly, asking a party of 2 to leave a person that needs accommodation alone, feels cruel and like a punishment for being disabled. Honestly also dangerous. This would be different if there were 3 or more. I hope that it works differently for solo and parties of 2.

Same with the "Return to Line" pass. The person leaving is punished for their disability because they have to fight their way out (and possibly back in) to the line. They have to search for a CM during a time-sensitive situation and explain in detail what they issue is in public. Then the family is punished as they stand at the front of the loading area waiting indefinitely for their person to return, if the person is able to to return.

 

[Bella749]

Time will tell who will qualify for a DAS, but it sounds like to me that Disney wants to limit it to kids and adults that have a cognitive impairment that makes waiting in lines for long periods of a time, whether they are standing or sitting, impossible without having some form of a meltdown.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But that is where the health pros working with DAS come into play.
"The parks will hire more cast members overall and provide more training so additional workers can help guests better understand Disney's accessibility offerings. Disney will work with health professionals from Health Alliance, a health insurer, as needed to determine the eligibility of DAS applicants."

If Disney was using Health Alliance as the first point of contact for the documentation then once that was done CMs got involved it would be different. That's why I brought up Universal. Documentation was not required at Universal until they switched to this newer process.

Having more staff and training is about meeting the anticipated influx of guests and questions not about using those CMs interpreting medication documentation. Even from that statement you've pasted in Disney is using Health Alliance as a sounding board for discussion when needed as a partnership rather than using Health Alliance as the main point person for every guest who wishes to discuss their needs with Disney. That's why I brought up Universal.

I'm not saying Disney couldn't added more to CMs plate and decide medication documentation is now needed just discussing your comments about a guest providing documentation to Disney. To your point it could help the documentation but Universal has absolved their TMs from having to do that paperwork hurdle by using a 3rd party first. Right now...Disney is not and is also not requiring documentation.

Regardless of documentation or not all CMs that would be possibly handling these calls have to get training on the new policies and protocols so I wouldn't read into Disney's "provide more training" as the CMs will become experts in medical conditions.

 

[PrincessV]

Just curious to hear how others perceive this…

We’re operating on the assumption that the goal is to reduce the number of people using LL queues, right? I mean, yes, to cut down on DAS abuse, but the only reason that’s a problem is that it’s backing up LLs, right?

So exactly HOW does reducing the number of people getting DAS reduce the LLs? In theory, if, say, 6 out of every 10 current DASers are rolled out of the program, AND G+/LL allotments are not increased, then okay - you’ve reduced the number of LL users by 60%ish. What was a theoretical 30 min wait in a LL is now 12.

But if Disney simply sells more G+/LLs and 5 of those 6 previous DASers now buy G+/LL, the reduction in LL users is only 10%ish - your 30 min wait in LL goes down a whopping 3 mins. Is that enough to make Guests happy? I doubt it. But I feel pretty sure a 50% increase - more, really, since the previous DASer AND their party will all need to buy - in G+/LL sales will make some accountants REAL happy.

I have a lot more optimism that the DAS program and whatever new accommodations they’re rolling out will still work for the majority of those who need them than I do of the changes fixing a broken wait system, I’m sorry to say.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Reading over all of this has made me so anxious for my upcoming trip at the end of May. I’m having a difficult time understanding how having people take space in standby and then take up space in LL is making waits less? I get if the family is large but a family of 3 or 4? Is it really going to make a significant difference? The increased difficulty, humiliation, anxiety, and regret to those people who were previously covered makes me sad.

Every party will now do a full standby every time vs going LL to LL.

For example...

Party A DAS - 6 people

2 rides with 1 hour stand by waits (and LL waits of 15 min) - Party A makes reservation at gate at 9am

Arrives at ride 1 at 9:10am and enters LL
Rides as a full group and gets off at 9:25am
Makes reservation for next ride at 9:30am (10 minutes after they checked in to the ride) for 10:30am
Gets to 2nd ride at 10:30am and enters LL
Rides by 10:45am and exits

12 Tier 1 rides done

Party A parent swap - 6 people

Enters park at 9am
Arrives at 1st ride at 9:10am
Gets rider swap entry done by 9:15am - party of 4 enters SB line, party of 2 waits
Party of 4 out at 10:15am and now swaps with party of 2
Party of 2 now waits in LL and is out by 10:35am
Party of 6 now walks to 2nd ride and arrives at 10:45am

6 Tier 1 rides done

Rider swap vs DAS will cut lines by 50%...it always takes time vs DAS that takes no time...it is the ultimate way to accommodate while drastically reducing lines and making cheating effectively worthless. Less rides can be ridden, even if you had an extra rider with a group. It's WHY they let an older brother or sis ride twice with the baby swap (once with mom and once with dad) - they have to wait so long to move on from rides each time, so it gives them a bonus.

 

[lanejudy]

Aren't they supposed to be using the health company they used during covid in conjunction with CMs? That is what I'm understanding. So the decision might not rest solely with the CM. Just wondered if paperwork explaining why someone has trouble in lines might help a person's chances. This would actually take the onus off the CM.

The announcement indicated they are partnering with Inspire Health Alliance, but the general understanding is that organization will be training Disney CMs and not the person doing the video chat directly. WDW is not requesting documentation, likely will refuse to look at any documentation, and definitely not collecting documentation. There is no ability for a healthcare provider to be confirmed as valid or truthful, plus their knowledge of Disney Parks operations would likely be minimal. The individual should be prepared to explain their needs (not diagnosis).

Regarding documentation -- what often gets written is something like these:
"Joe Smith needs to skip the lines. Please give him front of the line access." (which isn't an option)
"Jane Doe has MS and needs handicapped accommodations." (what does that mean)
"Sally Jones is pregnant with 3 young children. She should not be expected to wait in lines." (what?!)

 

[Tatebeck]

Just curious to hear how others perceive this…

We’re operating on the assumption that the goal is to reduce the number of people using LL queues, right? I mean, yes, to cut down on DAS abuse, but the only reason that’s a problem is that it’s backing up LLs, right?

So exactly HOW does reducing the number of people getting DAS reduce the LLs? In theory, if, say, 6 out of every 10 current DASers are rolled out of the program, AND G+/LL allotments are not increased, then okay - you’ve reduced the number of LL users by 60%ish. What was a theoretical 30 min wait in a LL is now 12.

But if Disney simply sells more G+/LLs and 5 of those 6 previous DASers now buy G+/LL, the reduction in LL users is only 10%ish - your 30 min wait in LL goes down a whopping 3 mins. Is that enough to make Guests happy? I doubt it. But I feel pretty sure a 50% increase - more, really, since the previous DASer AND their party will all need to buy - in G+/LL sales will make some accountants REAL happy.

I have a lot more optimism that the DAS program and whatever new accommodations they’re rolling out will still work for the majority of those who need them than I do of the changes fixing a broken wait system, I’m sorry to say.

They are able to sell-out of Genie plus, both for the day and for each time slot. This spreads people out in the queue all day long and had an absolute limit to it. Whereas for DAS or disabilities I don't think they are legally able to put a strict number on the cap

In a weird coincidence if everyone with DAS showed up to a ride at the exact same time, it would be a mess. That can't happen with G+ by design

 

[Disneychick75]

Wonder how long it will be before a lawsuit is filed for discrimination??? Allowing someone with a certain disability to use LL while telling another with a different but equally disabling condition, "Sorry, your disability is not acceptable for the accommodation" seems like discrimination on its face.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Parents/Guardians of small kids have been dealing with the extra wait time for rider swap all along. I understand comparing traveling with small kids is not a 100% equitable comparison to someone who has a life long disability but accommodations do their best to meet needs in a reasonable fashion. It is unlikely to 100% replicate the "traditional" experience so to speak.

Exactly - and it doesn’t have.