DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[Disturbia]

I suspect another issue is that parties including a DAS user will tend to be disproportionately large, due to the “hey, do you all want to come to Disney with us? We have DAS so you won’t have to wait in any long lines!” effect, where some people don’t want to “waste” any available slots in their allowed DAS party size. An effect that should be vastly reduced with a disability rider swap system in which only two members of the party get to use the LL, with everyone else in the party using the standby line.

I don’t know of any extended family member or friend who would willingly want to join us. Mostly they avoid traveling with us. They would loose their sanity in the first few hours.

To those that do, I salute you.

Maybe the higher ups need to spend some time with those with disabilities to truly understand. But then again they will probably need PTSD care if they did.

 

[SueM in MN]

What about this? “The district court determined that Disney had proved that modifications to the DAS card would have to be uniformly applied to all DAS guests. ”

I don't think that part taken out of context means what it sounds like it means. It does NOT mean that Disney can only have DAS forever or any changes made to DAS in the future have to be the same for everybody.

At the time of the case, Disney ONLY had DAS for guest-specific disability accommodation (other than the physical ramps having been added for everyone). So if the lawsuit were to force them the change DAS for the person in the trial, they would have to apply it to everyone. If the guest won the suit and they just tried to give the instant return passes to that 1 guest, everyone with similar issues would have stepped right up in line to make their own lawsuit, as it would be a slam dunk case.

It was 0% accommodation (normal) or 100% accommodation (DAS), nothing else. If you change DAS here it changes for everyone

Now they will have 0%, 1%, 2%, 3%, 4%....accommodation all the way to 100% accommodation (what used to be DAS). Now, if they change rules for one of the steps (rider-swap, bathroom passes, etc.) they will have to apply the rules to everyone receiving that accommodation at that step.

It just means you change the rules equally for everyone under each umbrella. We are just going to have a lot more, but smaller umbrellas. (And it sounds like rain is a'comin!)

It doesn't mean what it sounds like it means.
There is quite a bit of stuff in the lawsuits to understand.

GAC = Guest Assistance Card. This was the program that was in place right before DAS. It had multiple stamps, which provided different accommodations, based on needs.
At first, people got it mostly by a CM at an attraction noticing them having a problem and sending them to Guest Relations. That was how my daughter got it the first time.
As time went on, more information was on the Internet, including detailed info on how to get the "best" stamp - the green arrow, which was meant for kids on Wish trips. There was another stamp for alternate entry, which did not apply to ALL attractions, just those with inaccessible queues. Both of those stamps allowed immediate entry into the attraction, but because guests often had multiple stamps, it was confusing for guests and CMs, so most people were just sent into the Lightning Lane.
The card had a name and number of guests, but no other ID. People often sold them as 'never expiring Fastpasses"

DAS = the program which replaced GAC. The biggest change was that it removed immediate entry into attractions and replaced it with a waiting period roughly equal to the currently postly wait time.
It removed all the stamps; guests who needed special seating or things like avoiding stairs were to ask the CM at the entry. It started as a paper card and added a picture of the guest to the paper card, so harder for someone other than the registered person to use.
It was in place, pretty much unchanged from 2013 to now, other than going digital and allowing advance video registration and 2 DAS Advance Selections per day.

Plaintiffs in the case = families of people with autism who had the green or alternate entry stamps and were used to basically going into all attractions with waiting.
They claimed that ALL people with autism can't experience what they called 'idle wait time' and needed to move from one attraction to the next of their choice without waiting for anything.
They claimed that DAS caused idle wait time and could not meet their needs. Many did not even try the program at all.
What they wanted in the lawsuit was for Disney to go back to GAC ONLY for people with autism. If they had to be under DAS, the wanted Disney to give ALL People with autism a number of immediate entry passes.

The study (from my understanding) was NOT to look at the average DAS user (whatever that might be - my own family considers a very successful day to be 4 hours long and do 3-4 attractions). It was trying to simulate what the plaintiffs claimed they needed -no wait time, go from attraction to attraction at will, hitting as many attractions as possible.
The study showed that extending no wait for any attraction or DAS with multiple immediate entry passes per day to anyone with autism would severely affect park operations.

So, it wasn't that Disney didn't want to provide DAS; they wanted DAS to apply to everyone

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Did anyone ever consider the possibility that the reason for an uptick in usage is just from an increase in actual disabilities being discovered. Here is 1 stat alone: The rising incidence of IBD is propelled by pediatric-onset IBD, which is rising by 1.23% per year from 15.6 per 100,000 in 2023 to 18.0 per 100,000 in 2035" sourced from National Institutes of Heath in September 2023. As we learn about disabilities more, we are finding better ways to spot them earlier and more often which would explain the increase in DAS usage. I myself had no idea what UC was before I was diagnosed in 2014.

I think that is part of it, I made a comment earlier on about "what we know of the population now" because we are as a society more aware but as it pertains to Disney and their program (whatever it is at that time) they use I think it has more to do with the application of it.

Yes we do know now more about autism and the incident rate (using this purely as an example) but the types of needs expressed by people were granted on a wide berth by Disney for a long enough time. Your IBD example is probably a good one for that wide berth and probably why there was an adjustment (rumored, in practice, etc) of a more catch-all by Disney of "bathroom issues".

 

[clarker99]

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-jim-hill-media-podcast-network/id452620851?i=1000652447127

Lots of DAS info, data and analysis from @lentesta on the Disney Dish Pod this week. Also, goes into numbers from the lawsuit and he has been talking with insiders about a lot of different things regarding abuse and ada laws, etc. Very much worth your time to listen to the 1st 22mins or so.

I can post the transcript if people want? It is quite long so not sure what folks think.

 

[SueM in MN]

are you able to remove the entire thread and start anew? I had a hard time going back and looking for my post when I realized I might have said too much

So far all we’ve done is speculate, attack each other and vent

Not a 133 pages and counting thread.
People can find their own posts by using the Search feature at the top of the page. You can filter it to just this forum or search just this thread

 

[Philsfan77]

According to my daughter, who is doing the dcp now, all her roommates (also all cms) have DAS passes, and she said guests get them for seemingly innocuous reasons. She thought we should look into getting one because of her brothers’s sensitivity to noise (he just used noise canceling headphones in the parks and was fine).

We had friends tell us to get it for our son because he is Asthmatic. Never even crossed my mind that this would be a reason to need DAS, as he is more than capable of waiting in lines, and we do other things to mitigate his issues (travel during cooler seasons, do the parks earlier in the day and leave for a few hours mid afternoon to swim and then go back as the parks cool down, bring his emergency inhaler (we sometimes will give him 2 puffs if its projected to be a humid day as a preventative measure), and he takes his normal 2 puffs in the morning and 2 at night of his traditional inhaler.

While we probably could qualify and have a medical diagnosis, I would put us in the category of abusers honestly if we got one. It's not necessary for us to navigate the parks, which opens up a separate conversation in my opinion of how many people get DAS because they "can" versus get it because they have to.

 

[Jrb1979]

We had friends tell us to get it for our son because he is Asthmatic. Never even crossed my mind that this would be a reason to need DAS, as he is more than capable of waiting in lines, and we do other things to mitigate his issues (travel during cooler seasons, do the parks earlier in the day and leave for a few hours mid afternoon to swim and then go back as the parks cool down, bring his emergency inhaler (we sometimes will give him 2 puffs if its projected to be a humid day as a preventative measure), and he takes his normal 2 puffs in the morning and 2 at night of his traditional inhaler.

While we probably could qualify and have a medical diagnosis, I would put us in the category of abusers honestly if we got one. It's not necessary for us to navigate the parks.

That right there IMO is the biggest issue that is affecting DAS. There is lots of guests that absolutely need it but there is also a lot of guests that are using DAS that can physically wait in lines no problem using scooters, wheelchairs or rider Swap.

 

[fatmanatee]

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-jim-hill-media-podcast-network/id452620851?i=1000652447127

Lots of DAS info, data and analysis from @lentesta on the Disney Dish Pod this week. Also, goes into numbers from the lawsuit and he has been talking with insiders about a lot of different things regarding abuse and ada laws, etc. Very much worth your time to listen to the 1st 22mins or so.

I can post the transcript if people want? It is quite long so not sure what folks think.

I think it would be useful to at least have the data out there. With all due respect to whoever it was at WDWMagic who posted their stats, Len is very well regarded for his analysis and puts his name on his work.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don’t know of any extended family member or friend who would willingly want to join us. Mostly they avoid traveling with us. They would loose their sanity in the first few hours.

To those that do, I salute you.

Maybe the higher ups need to spend some time with those with disabilities to truly understand.

I think that's fair to say for you personally but that isn't something that people with disabilities have en masse.

There is nothing about having a disability that precludes you from having family members and friends join you on a Disney trip and if you read some trip reports there are people who absolutely do, including severe disabilities.

And there is nothing about having a disability that precludes you from using DAS for your traveling party together, in fact that's a complaint from multiple people on this thread about potentially being separated from their family (not talking about a young child here by the way) regarding attractions.

 

[PrincessDadx2]

I'm curious, what did folks do before guests were able to request DAS online? Considering it's a fairly new service, DAS was never guaranteed before arriving to a park before.

Can't speak for everyone, but my family has used GAC and DAS for 15 or so years and never done it online.

In the past you could go to guest services at Downtown Disney and get your DAS. Once you established a DAS it was relatively easy to show your previous eligibility and re-establish that nothing had changed.

You also had non expiring tickets available, so even if you were denied you had an option to come at a time with different weather or crowd capacity without losing the full value of your ticket.

Disney was also not trying to limit DAS because every customer had access to fast pass included in their ticket.

Now they are asking me to gamble an expiring ticket on a non specific "accommodation" that may or may not work for the disabled person in my party. They have thrown out our history and specifically said we are not eligible for our previous accommodation without providing a concrete alternative. In my mind blaming me for their inability to manage their process.

Extra Credit: Genie is worthless to me. It gives bad advice and provides little/no value if you have any experience navigating the parks.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

Because capacity isn’t changing, I wonder, as the number of guests who would have qualified for DAS in the past continues to increase (given changes in the overall population) is it preferable to accommodate more disabled riders at the expense of smaller parties, or fewer disabled riders with more family members able to accompany them? Ultimately that is the decision that must be made.

 

[sprem96]

I think that is part of it, I made a comment earlier on about "what we know of the population now" because we are as a society more aware but as it pertains to Disney and their program (whatever it is at that time) they use I think it has more to do with the application of it.

Yes we do know now more about autism and the incident rate (using this purely as an example) but the types of needs expressed by people were granted on a wide berth by Disney for a long enough time. Your IBD example is probably a good one for that wide berth and probably why there was an adjustment (rumored, in practice, etc) of a more catch-all by Disney of "bathroom issues".

**I edited/removed my previous statement, too much specific information that could be used by abusers**

 

[SueM in MN]

Did universal give you the accommodations? As I’ve been told even though I have been approved for IBCCES then they still could reject it when I Get the call from universal team.

Also does anyone know if you have to have tickets before you can apply for these as it won’t work for me and if I can’t get DAS then I won’t spend money on tickets.

Getting approved by IBCCES is the first step. I have been watching social media discussions about this and have only seen 1 person reported he was denied by IBCCES. He posted he was asked to get an updated letter from his doctor and was approved.
Some of the 'unusual' things people have reported getting approved for included:
- someone who sent in a letter from her college for extra time for tests (she got it when she entered college and had graduated by the time she submitted it)
- someone who sent in a letter from work giving authorization to keep food at their desk

I have seen people who got higher levels of accommodations than they expected. Most of those were already in Universals system prior.
I've also read quite a few accounts from angry people who got the IBCCES card and were denied by Universal

Here is some numbers as the reason Disney had to change things.

8% of visitors are DAS
70% of a rides capacity is given to DAS
74-85% of LL users are DAS

15-26% of LL users are G+
10-25% of a rides capacity is given to G+

5-20% of a rides capacity is given to standby guests

8% of visitors get 70% of a rides capacity
92% of visitors get 30% of a rides capacity, which is unevenly given to G+ users

This is a huge problem and needs a radical solution, I’m sorry it’s causing heartache to some of the most vulnerable in our society but the company cannot function, nor is it fair to the rest of us, for this to continue.

I agree something needs to be done, but those figures don't sound real

 

[JLTraveling]

Thanks for the update, I'm still learning it 100%, but I'm still correct in needing to have a ticket purchased before being approved from Universal? How does it work, do I reach out to them, or how do they reach out to me, once I by my tickets?

No, you don't need to have a ticket purchased. My dad already had a Universal Orlando AP when he did his, but they went ahead and set him up with accommodations for Universal Hollywood when he expressed some interest in a possible future trip.

When you fill out the IBCCES application and indicate interest in Universal, there's a place to put in your trip dates or general time frame. They prioritize people whose trips are coming up soonest as far as who they reach out to when. But you can also call them anytime, just call the main Universal Orlando Guest Services number https://www.universalorlando.com/web/en/gb/plan-your-visit/hours-information/contact-us and ask to be transferred to the disability accommodations team. If they aren't too busy, they'll take your call right away. Otherwise, you may be asked to email a specific address, and they'll respond either by email or phone within a couple of days.

The annoying part is that they call from a random number at a random time of day. But if you don't get the call, they'll send an email asking you to respond with one of a few time frame choices that would work for a call. Recently, I've also heard of them skipping the call and just sending an email approving the "standard" accommodations, with a separate phone number you can call if you have questions or concerns. That seems to be for people with very straightforward needs (based on the IBCCES application) who tick whatever boxes. But again, if your needs are more complex, you can always call the number in the email. But either way, no ticket required, just a general idea of when you'll go.

 

[way2tyred]

While this would be the ideal, the reality is that a lot of people simply can't afford to go to a doctor, then a specialist, and then pay the amount required for testing. Saying if it's bad enough a person will go to a doctor is untrue - it's overlooking the reality of how much medical expenses are.

While I've been diagnosed with anxiety for a while, my ADHD which everyone and their mother thinks I have has been unable to be diagnosed because where I am, it costs 500 for testing alone - and no insurance can be used. And that's just one scenario.

But if you cannot afford the Dr visits needed for a diagnosis and treatment, I feel like chances are high you aren't really able to afford Disney anyway?

 

[TwoMisfits]

As far as Universal's current policy, I'm sure they are watching Disney closely this summer, and will be adjusting based on how Disney's new plan is received and implemented, prior to opening their big new park in 2025.

AKA - They may also be accumulating all their data for a slam dunk case, and are just a few months behind Disney.

 

[Jrb1979]

Getting approved by IBCCES is the first step. I have been watching social media discussions about this and have only seen 1 person reported he was denied by IBCCES. He posted he was asked to get an updated letter from his doctor and was approved.
Some of the 'unusual' things people have reported getting approved for included:
- someone who sent in a letter from her college for extra time for tests (she got it when she entered college and had graduated by the time she submitted it)
- someone who sent in a letter from work giving authorization to keep food at their desk

I have seen people who got higher levels of accommodations than they expected. Most of those were already in Universals system prior.
I've also read quite a few accounts from angry people who got the IBCCES card and were denied by Universal

I agree something needs to be done, but those figures don't sound real

It's pretty close. These are the numbers that Disney released from the 2020 lawsuit.
3.3% of the people in the park were using 30% of Toy Story's ride capacity.

Disney said on that use of the system has tripled in the last 5 years.

Okay, so if back in 2013, 3.3% of guests were using 30% of ride capacity at a popular ride, and use has tripled since then, you'd think roughly 33% to 90% of riders on popular rides were using DAS to access the ride.

 

[Disneychick13]

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-jim-hill-media-podcast-network/id452620851?i=1000652447127

Lots of DAS info, data and analysis from @lentesta on the Disney Dish Pod this week. Also, goes into numbers from the lawsuit and he has been talking with insiders about a lot of different things regarding abuse and ada laws, etc. Very much worth your time to listen to the 1st 22mins or so.

I can post the transcript if people want? It is quite long so not sure what folks think.

Thanks for posting….it was eye opening to say the least. This was a good quote from the transcript:

“The other thing I wanna mention is Disney has thousands of cast members who are either disabled or who have family members that are disabled. And if you told me this new policy went through 25 rounds of internal review and testing before we even heard about it, I would believe that. And the end result is going to be that the people who truly need accommodation are going to wait less in line when all of this is done.
So that's the good thing.
No, no, I agree. I agree. The notion is Disney isn't going after your child with autism.
This is an entirely different target in mind here.
Yeah, let me just say this. And I'm not saying that this was told to me or anything. If you think that the best way to get a DAS pass is to show up at a park by yourself with no doctor's note, but a script that you printed off the internet that says, words to use to skip the lines at Disney World for free.
And you're reading from that paper to the person at guest relations. You might want to rethink your strategy. That's all I'm going[…]”

From The Jim Hill Media Podcast Network: DD Ep 475: Re-opened 1900 Park Fare serves up a superior character meal, Apr 15, 2024
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...-fare-serves-up-a/id452620851?i=1000652447127
This material may be protected by copyright.

 

[sprem96]

No, you don't need to have a ticket purchased. My dad already had a Universal Orlando AP when he did his, but they went ahead and set him up with accommodations for Universal Hollywood when he expressed some interest in a possible future trip.

When you fill out the IBCCES application and indicate interest in Universal, there's a place to put in your trip dates or general time frame. They prioritize people whose trips are coming up soonest as far as who they reach out to when. But you can also call them anytime, just call the main Universal Orlando Guest Services number https://www.universalorlando.com/web/en/gb/plan-your-visit/hours-information/contact-us and ask to be transferred to the disability accommodations team. If they aren't too busy, they'll take your call right away. Otherwise, you may be asked to email a specific address, and they'll respond either by email or phone within a couple of days.

The annoying part is that they call from a random number at a random time of day. But if you don't get the call, they'll send an email asking you to respond with one of a few time frame choices that would work for a call. Recently, I've also heard of them skipping the call and just sending an email approving the "standard" accommodations, with a separate phone number you can call if you have questions or concerns. That seems to be for people with very straightforward needs (based on the IBCCES application) who tick whatever boxes. But again, if your needs are more complex, you can always call the number in the email. But either way, no ticket required, just a general idea of when you'll go.

I decided to call Universal today and sort it out, Disney has me frazzled lol, and what the lady in the department told me is that when you register for IBCCES you list your time for travelling (specific day helps) and within 48 hours of your visit they give you a call (have your number through the IBCCES program) and discuss it and if approved you get a case number which you still need to present to Guest Services but there is no fussing when you go in person and you get your AAP card and move on. Now I did this back in December and I have a very hectic lifestyle living with my disability and I forgot I did request a day in mid-August and called it in ahead of time and got my case number, lol, so whoops. But for others reading this, that is the general process. If you like to plan way ahead, as I do, then I would advise calling way before the 30 days suggested and before you buy tickets so that you have the comfort of knowing or not if you will be given special accommodations or not and plan your trip accordingly.

 

[JLTraveling]

Getting approved by IBCCES is the first step. I have been watching social media discussions about this and have only seen 1 person reported he was denied by IBCCES. He posted he was asked to get an updated letter from his doctor and was approved.
Some of the 'unusual' things people have reported getting approved for included:
- someone who sent in a letter from her college for extra time for tests (she got it when she entered college and had graduated by the time she submitted it)
- someone who sent in a letter from work giving authorization to keep food at their desk

I have seen people who got higher levels of accommodations than they expected. Most of those were already in Universals system prior.
I've also read quite a few accounts from angry people who got the IBCCES card and were denied by Universal

I agree something needs to be done, but those figures don't sound real

Based on conversations with my friend in Universal Guest Services (she isn't on the disability team, but she works side by side with them):

The biggest issue they're seeing right now is people not being clear on the two-step process with IBCCES and Universal. IBCCES does approve for a wide variety of things. Because that's their only role in the process. They don't work with the theme parks directly, and they have contracts with lots of different parks that have lots of different individual rules. Their role is simply to get the documentation, assess whether it proves that the person falls into the general category of "disabled", and then pass them on to the relevant park(s) for a determination of what that means in terms of accommodations.

Then Universal (or whatever park) gets the person's answers to the questions on the IBCCES along with confirmation that the person is disabled, but not the documentation itself. The disability team works with the answers to those questions, along with the information they gather during the call (which is reasonably detailed, but still focused solely on issues with waiting in line, not diagnosis or symptoms). At that point they determine whether the person qualifies for an accommodation and, if so, which one.

The problem is that all this still isn't being communicated well to the general public. So people have no idea that they could be demonstrably disabled (approved for the IBCCES card) but not qualify for accommodations (because their needs are met with the park's existing systems). I'm not sure what they need do differently in their communications, but I agree that it's a real problem.