DAS in Tandem

[AmberMK]

Generally speaking, I have no sympathy for smokers. Filthy and intrusive habit. And yet... I have a great deal of sympathy for those people dealing with anxiety. So... Here we are...

If my anxiety were assuaged by smoking cigarettes, I would find a way. Nature of that beast is that it is a transgression of the rules and it's an obvious one. Literally , where there's smoke... Have you tried vaping? Tobacco addicts I've talked with tell me it hits the spot nearly as well as a pall mall. If so, get the sort that lets you choose the liquid separately. The liquid comes in various strengths. Get a juice that delivers a cigarette's worth of nicotine with just a puff or two. If your liquid is mild in flavor and not blatantly tobacco flavored you would be able to sneak a puff from time to time without anyone knowing or caring. A friend of mine vaped throughout a day at Cedar Point, exhaling through the straw of a half-empty cup of ice water.

I don't know what the WDW policy on vaping is. I've seen a fellow guest huff on a nicorette inhaler at his table in the Yachtsman. Yet it's often the case that e-cigs are lumped in with cigarettes as an analog. In such a case, While you might be able to puff away completely undetected, I wouldn't advise you to attempt to dodge the rules. That said, finding an e-cig that satisfies you might still be a better option because you can choose a juice that get's you the nicotine in less time. Dodging out to a smoking section is still a hassle but less so than if, once you get there, it takes 6-8 minutes to puff through a smoke.

I get where you are Cobright, the whole smoking vs suffering thing, I was actually in much the same place as you when I was younger. I hated that my parents smoked, I hated being around it, and I even had a rule that there was no smoking in my room which had a fan to keep the awful stuff out, which to their credit my parents heeded with much grace so I always had a place to escape it.

It wasn't until my early teens, as my anxiety really started to "bloom" that I found the more I was around my smoking parents, the calmer I was for a time afterwards. Talk about a smack in the face, I had berated them for years, but in my mid teens I smoked my first one, and I can not even begin to tell you the relief that flooded through me as my mind settled, and anytime things got bad I picked one up, hated myself for it, but did it anyway, cause it helped. I am fairly sure I only made it through school because of it. It wasn't until I got pregnant that I tried to find out what was wrong with me and fix it.

I have indeed tried all of the patches, gums, candies, and inhalers, and when my father (a 3 pack a day chain smoker) managed to quit using vapor, I was all over it. I even got to the point where I learned to mix my own and was buying straight pure chemicals and mixing it up myself trying to make it work. I can officially report for my particular mix of issues, it is *not* just the nicotine or the ritual, there is something else going on. I do wish medicine would find the people like me and try to figure it out, I really do.

It is not in my nature to break the rules, I'm a big believer in rules, so I am *fairly* sure I won't be trying to sneak into a bush or the bathroom to smoke where I'm not supposed to (I say fairly because, well, in a panic state ya just never know what one will do and I tend to be overly honest about myself). But I have found in my life that I am the exception to the very general rule. Where I will leave if I am able before I break a rule, most people will put their own issues ahead of the rule. I am not saying I'm better than anyone else, I know I'm not. It just seems to be a very general trend in human nature. If ya gotta smoke, you're gonna smoke, so once again I'm not entirely sure what Disney was thinking about when they decided it was a fantastic idea to have only two DSAs in parks the size of MK and AK, as it seems they are just encouraging huge amounts of rule breaking by those that are of the mindset and forcing their guests like you, Cobright, to be at constant risk once again of being in a cloud of smoke at random and unable to avoid it.

 

[gap2368]

I total get the smoking to relive stress ( I will way I have never smoked in my life but I have done things to relive stress that really is not good idea) with this said I am beyond happy that there is less smoking area in the park, I have really bad asthma small lung capacity, and smoking set off an attack ( even if someone else was around someone smoking ) I have family member that smoke 4 or 5 packs a day and I can not even be around them at all it is one of the hardest things to deal with for both the smoker and none smokers. AmberMK I too wish they would do some research on why smoking helps so much as not only because of the bad things smoking dose ( I know of 3 people that have die of cancer caused by smoking in just the last year and another 2 that have cancer now) but also to find a safer what to help relieve stress and to keep ever one safe. I do hope the OP has a great trip. and for anyone that is trying to quiet I wish you all the luck, I have had a few family members do it and it is one hard thing to do.

 

[DisneyOma]

I have indeed tried all of the patches, gums, candies, and inhalers, and when my father (a 3 pack a day chain smoker) managed to quit using vapor, I was all over it. I even got to the point where I learned to mix my own and was buying straight pure chemicals and mixing it up myself trying to make it work. I can officially report for my particular mix of issues, it is *not* just the nicotine or the ritual, there is something else going on. I do wish medicine would find the people like me and try to figure it out, I really do.

So, are you saying that part of it is the nicotine, part of it is the ritual, and then there is something else? Or that it's not nicotine addiction or the habit-forming ritual at all but something else?

 

[AmberMK]

I total get the smoking to relive stress ( I will way I have never smoked in my life but I have done things to relive stress that really is not good idea) with this said I am beyond happy that there is less smoking area in the park, I have really bad asthma small lung capacity, and smoking set off an attack ( even if someone else was around someone smoking ) I have family member that smoke 4 or 5 packs a day and I can not even be around them at all it is one of the hardest things to deal with for both the smoker and none smokers. AmberMK I too wish they would do some research on why smoking helps so much as not only because of the bad things smoking dose ( I know of 3 people that have die of cancer caused by smoking in just the last year and another 2 that have cancer now) but also to find a safer what to help relieve stress and to keep ever one safe. I do hope the OP has a great trip. and for anyone that is trying to quiet I wish you all the luck, I have had a few family members do it and it is one hard thing to do.

I do understand Gap, I really do.

But I would like to point out a few things as to why the removal of DSAs is a bad idea, for you more than for even me or any other smoker. Just as something you might not consider since you are not a smoker and it might help you understand why too few DSAs is worse for nonsmokers than it is for smokers.

1. It isn't going to stop you from being around smokers. Even as freaked out as I am about the shortage and not being close enough to a DSA when panic starts to hit, I'm still going, and so is every other Disney freak smoker that can scrape up the money to get there. Even if Disney made the entire WDW Resort absolutely smoke free, you won't avoid smokers (see #5).
2. By so greatly reducing the number of DSAs, you have effectively consolidated them into very limited areas. That might seem good right now, but what happens is that they smoke more when they are there trying to build up, return more often because they are afraid they won't get the chance later and are surrounded by more people doing the exact same thing.
3. The more smokers you put into an area, the more smoke residue there is to cling to the people that are there and less air circulation due to how packed they are. In your case, the reduction of DSAs has effectively turned everyone that goes anywhere near the smoking area, even if they don't smoke but just pass through or by the area, into the family member you can't be around due to the amount of residue they pick up from being so crammed together.
4. I'm sure at some point you have seen the little rooms in Japan and China where they send smokers, the ones where all the people are just black shadows for all the smoke. What you may not know is those rooms have very healthy ventilation systems including more fans than it should take to keep those rooms clear. The rooms are smoke filled because of the way cigarette smoke reacts when you consolidate it. The more smoke you have, the heavier it gets, and the harder it is for air to move it. So by packing all the smokers into such small locations, you are creating smoke clouds that will just hover at ground level and creep through the park, instead of drift up and away as they would if the smokers were more spread out. This is further troublesome because of the fact that it doesn't really look like smoke for long when it's outdoors, it's just kinda a hazy spot that most people wouldn't notice in the humidity riddled land of Florida. I've actually watched smoke clouds drift from a smoking area and lose all their color, and watched all the people walk through them without a clue.
5. Human nature resists being dictated to, Americans are extremely resistant to being dictated to, and Europeans have almost no issue with smokers at all and do not understand our obsession with it. All of these things being true, large numbers of smokers will simply ignore the rules if DSAs are not convenient and plentiful and smoke wherever they are knowing that Disney can't kick them all out and if they tried there would be a huge backlash from the European countries that actually keep Disney theme parks operating. Most of the money that keeps the theme parks running, around 65% last time I looked which I admit was some time ago, comes from European visitors, NOT American visitors. Disney parks would eliminate their main income stream if they insulted Europeans too much.

I'm not trying to change your mind. I don't think I have any right to even try to change your mind.

I just want to give you some information a nonsmoker might not have about how smoking actually works so that GOOD choices can be made to help keep people like you, with your medical conditions, away from triggers and have a better chance to NOT have an attack because you went into public with the rest of us. The problems that are created by not really understanding smoking and smokers when making rules are actually worse than what the rules were supposed to fix. Just the hidden smoke clouds you will now have to deal with because of such tight consolidation of smokers is reason enough for me to be unhappy about these changes completely aside from my own issues. These consolidations actually put you at greater risk of an ER visit, and that concerns and worries me. It also makes me sad, because others have convinced you that it's a good idea, a great thing, when I believe that in the future your trips to Disney may actually be dangerous, and you may not realize that the removal of DSAs are exactly why it happened.

I've always done my absolute best to be a polite smoker, I keep track of wind direction and I will move to make sure a nonsmoker is not getting blasted by my habit, I NEVER leave a cigarette butt anywhere but an ashtray, including the portable one I carry with me at all times, and as I've stated before, I no longer smoke the chemical death sticks that are commercially sold, only pure leaf tobacco, which really does make a HUGE difference, as it does not act or react the same. I have a couple of friends with Asthma, and they had thought I had quit when I switched from commercial to making my own, whatever was triggering them when they were around me after too many smokes went away entirely.

 

[AmberMK]

So, are you saying that part of it is the nicotine, part of it is the ritual, and then there is something else? Or that it's not nicotine addiction or the habit-forming ritual at all but something else?

Hi, Oma, I'm not sure exactly what you know about vapor, so forgive me if this gives you more information than you needed to answer your question.

First, you need to be aware e-cig juice is made of three chemicals - food/medicinal grade propylene glycol (used in food, injections, and liquid oral meds), food/medicinal grade vegetable Glycerol (used in food, oral meds, and botanical extracts), and pure nicotine - and sometimes also include purified water and food safe flavorings and scents. There have been, in the past, a few Chinese makers that were throwing every chemical in the world in there, but for the most part vapor users have caught on to them and now demand only these pure food or medicinal ingredients in their e-juice and those makers have been mostly eliminated from the American markets.

Next, there are quite a few delivery devices for the e-juice, but they all work on the same theory - the liquid is heated slightly by a coil to create the vapor, which the user then inhales to get the nicotine. Most of these devices are used much like a cigarette, though there is a fairly expanding market for devices that look and act more like pipes and hookahs.

So, e-cigs work much the same way as smoking when it comes to nicotine delivery and ritual, and with the right device (little ones that can be held just like a cigarette or perhaps the newer pipe devices) it is essentially identical.

When I tried to quit using e-cigs (my boyfriend DID quit btw) I tried many devices, many juices, and even mixed my own juices (I still mix the boyfriends) trying to create the same effect as my pure leave cigarettes. It never happened. I did find that if I was only JUST starting to feel anxious, I could use these devices (and I still do) to keep me from going overboard until I could get to an approved smoking area or away from nonsmokers, but the effect does not last very long and once I'm past a certain anxiety level, they do not help at all. This does not help me at all at Disney since you have to be in the smoking area to use them.

So... I have no idea what exactly betters my issues. I do know now several things that it is NOT, however. It is not entirely the nicotine, the nicotine plays a part since I can use e-juice but only as a short term survival method. It is not entirely the ritual, again, the e-cigs don't work for long or in a lot of circumstances. And I know whatever the chemical or chemical mix is not as plentiful in chemical ladened commercial cigarettes as it is in pure leaf tobacco, because the few times I've had to buy commercial smokes because I ran out of my own, I smoked them two or three times faster and still didn't achieve the same amount of relief. I also know that the delivery method (inhaling smoke) has something to do with it since chewing tobacco, which is also a pure leaf product, does not produce the same results.

I hope that helps answer your questions.

 

[charmed59]

But I would like to point out a few things as to why the removal of DSAs is a bad idea, for you more than for even me or any other smoker. Just as something you might not consider since you are not a smoker and it might help you understand why too few DSAs is worse for nonsmokers than it is for smokers.

1. It isn't going to stop you from being around smokers. Even as freaked out as I am about the shortage and not being close enough to a DSA when panic starts to hit, I'm still going, and so is every other Disney freak smoker that can scrape up the money to get there. Even if Disney made the entire WDW Resort absolutely smoke free, you won't avoid smokers (see #5)
2. ...
3. ...
4. ...
5. Human nature resists being dictated to, Americans are extremely resistant to being dictated to, and Europeans have almost no issue with smokers at all and do not understand our obsession with it. All of these things being true, large numbers of smokers will simply ignore the rules if DSAs are not convenient and plentiful and smoke wherever they are knowing that Disney can't kick them all out and if they tried there would be a huge backlash from the European countries that actually keep Disney theme parks operating. Most of the money that keeps the theme parks running, around 65% last time I looked which I admit was some time ago, comes from European visitors, NOT American visitors. Disney parks would eliminate their main income stream if they insulted Europeans too much.

I'm not sure the last time you've been to Western Europe, but in the last 10 years smoking has been on the decline, especially in countries like England* and France. I head to Europe for at least a few weeks a year and I can't remember the last time I saw a smoker in a restaurant. Europeans, especially Western Europeans, have become like Americans, in that they understand where smoking is permitted and adhere to the wishes and rules of those around them. I believe the number of European scofflaws would be in line with the number of American offenders. I'm afraid you can't hope for the economic influence of the European visitors to save the DSAs.

*England is not a European country, but I'm sure their numbers fall into the European market bucket from a Disney financial perspective.

 

[Hoodie]

I did notice that the Tron coaster in MK is planned where one of the smoking areas is. I actually suspect it will not be replaced and MK will be down to one. The truth is that smoking is declining in all developed countries - and they are the ones traveling to WDW. I don't think there really is the pressure to add more places. I do know there was a lot of pressure to move them as far to the edges and out of the way as possible, mainly due to the fact that second hand smoke can cause serious health issues - both immediate for some (like gap I have smoke-induced asthma. I steer as far from the smoking areas as possible and yes, I will turn in people to CMs I see smoking outside the area) and long term.

My friend's husband is a smoker. They always stay at Fort Wilderness because you can smoke at your campsite or on the deck of the cabins. With all the changes recently in hotel policies, they rarely ever spend the night anywhere if they don't have their camper. I know it's annoying for smokers to have such limited areas, but personally, I'm happy they are limited and out of the way.

 

[gap2368]

I have a friend that is a smoker ( she smokes to relive stress ) and she was comping to me about how at a local ( a little over and/or away) you have to go out of the park and and out of the parking lot across the street to an open filed to smoke ( so about 150/200 yards) her thought on the fact she should smoke where she wanted too when she was around me after she smoked ( and changed clothes ) and I had an asthma attack so bad my lips were turning blue and the paramedics almost had to put a breathing tube down my thought. Stress is not fun to deal with at all but the chance that you will die from stress is slim you do not live ling if you can not breath.

and come to think of it there are a few local college that you can not smoke at all at, if they cache you enough you can get kicked out ( not sure how many times never smoked so did not really look)

but I think less and less places are letting people smoke I think there is way too much bad that come from smoking and if they find the what is helping people that smoke due to stress then there would be a lot less.

 

[DisneyOma]

Hi, Oma, I'm not sure exactly what you know about vapor, so forgive me if this gives you more information than you needed to answer your question.

First, you need to be aware e-cig juice is made of three chemicals - food/medicinal grade propylene glycol (used in food, injections, and liquid oral meds), food/medicinal grade vegetable Glycerol (used in food, oral meds, and botanical extracts), and pure nicotine - and sometimes also include purified water and food safe flavorings and scents. There have been, in the past, a few Chinese makers that were throwing every chemical in the world in there, but for the most part vapor users have caught on to them and now demand only these pure food or medicinal ingredients in their e-juice and those makers have been mostly eliminated from the American markets.

Next, there are quite a few delivery devices for the e-juice, but they all work on the same theory - the liquid is heated slightly by a coil to create the vapor, which the user then inhales to get the nicotine. Most of these devices are used much like a cigarette, though there is a fairly expanding market for devices that look and act more like pipes and hookahs.

So, e-cigs work much the same way as smoking when it comes to nicotine delivery and ritual, and with the right device (little ones that can be held just like a cigarette or perhaps the newer pipe devices) it is essentially identical.

When I tried to quit using e-cigs (my boyfriend DID quit btw) I tried many devices, many juices, and even mixed my own juices (I still mix the boyfriends) trying to create the same effect as my pure leave cigarettes. It never happened. I did find that if I was only JUST starting to feel anxious, I could use these devices (and I still do) to keep me from going overboard until I could get to an approved smoking area or away from nonsmokers, but the effect does not last very long and once I'm past a certain anxiety level, they do not help at all. This does not help me at all at Disney since you have to be in the smoking area to use them.

So... I have no idea what exactly betters my issues. I do know now several things that it is NOT, however. It is not entirely the nicotine, the nicotine plays a part since I can use e-juice but only as a short term survival method. It is not entirely the ritual, again, the e-cigs don't work for long or in a lot of circumstances. And I know whatever the chemical or chemical mix is not as plentiful in chemical ladened commercial cigarettes as it is in pure leaf tobacco, because the few times I've had to buy commercial smokes because I ran out of my own, I smoked them two or three times faster and still didn't achieve the same amount of relief. I also know that the delivery method (inhaling smoke) has something to do with it since chewing tobacco, which is also a pure leaf product, does not produce the same results.

I hope that helps answer your questions.

It does - Have you tried chewing on the leaves, like chewing tobacco?

Since tobacco is cancer-causing, and the smoke is also a carcinogen, I'm predicting that the whole of WDW will be smoke free in the future. Those who choose to ignore the ban will just get kicked out, heavily fined for smoking in the room, etc. Or they can go for a drive in their own car and smoke. So limiting the number of DSAs isn't going to hurt the nonsmoking population - people just need to let CMs know when smokers are lighting up outside the zone.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

Unfortunately you will just need to go with the designated smoking areas, because I don't think you will be able to get a medical exception to allow you to smoke outside of them. Also, if you light up outside the smoking area and are asked to put it out, I don't think saying that a medical condition requires you to smoke will make much difference. Vaping is an alternative, but under Disney policy, vaping is the same as smoking and must be done in the designated smoking areas. I also agree that there is probably zero chance that additional smoking areas will be added.

As for the DAS, just explain to Guest Services why you are unable to wait in regular lines. Also unfortunately, there is no longer any front of the line type service for disabilities, and you won't be able to avoid lines entirely. What it could get you is a shorter wait at attractions that have fastpass entry. How you deal with that, along with your family, is up to you.

Also you will be there at the most crowded time of the year. Nothing is perfect. Crowds may end up being too big for you. Things may not happen the way you planned them. Rides go down. People change their minds about what they want to do. It happens. Perfection is not an attainable goal.