Disney is flooding ABC Networks with Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge this week.

[BrianL]

Disagree (with the bolded), but that's OK.

I do have one other question though. If you guys dislike "Fandom Menace" so much, why do you pay it so much attention? I'd never heard of it until I read it on this board.

I actually don't and have never heard of that specific group until this thread, but I have known others, and even many friends who are right there with them. I hang out in a comic book shop a lot - nerds talk about stuff. I have heard the perspective.

Curiously, what do you feel is off with Luke and is that your primary reason for disliking the movie? I'm always happy to have a civil debate about things.

 

[tlmadden73]

Disagree (with the bolded), but that's OK.

I do have one other question though. If you guys dislike "Fandom Menace" so much, why do you pay it so much attention? I'd never heard of it until I read it on this board.

YouTube algorithms. I watched Star Wars videos (not necessarilly theirs) .. was focused on Star Wars news . .and they show up on my feed all the time. Just reading their headlines is enough to know how much they hate on SW now and how often (literally daily). I have watched a few just to see what they are about (all negative) and now YouTube keeps throwing them up on my feed.

It is almost comical at this point to follow.
Headlines like: Lucasfilm Insider Claims studio Has an agenda against Luke Skywalker
George Lucas was Betrayed by Bob Iger .

etc. etc.

 

[SaharanTea]

I actually don't and have never heard of that specific group until this thread, but I have known others, and even many friends who are right there with them. I hang out in a comic book shop a lot - nerds talk about stuff. I have heard the perspective.

Curiously, what do you feel is off with Luke and is that your primary reason for disliking the movie? I'm always happy to have a civil debate about things.

Gotcha, yes I have a lot of "nerd" friends as well (I generally consider myself one). We haven't talked much about the movie since it came out. In general, most of the ones I talked to didn't like it. My 10-year-old (at the time) son liked it, but he hasn't asked to even see it again, and we didn't really talk about it after leaving the theater.

I'm good with having a civil conversation about it. I respect the opinions of those who say they liked it. Everybody's different.

Luke was always the guy who dashed in to save his friends. Even in RotJ, he basically gave up his life to save his Dad. I don't think even old man Luke would cause the problem he did and then hide away like Obi and Yoda. Of course, they didn't cause the problem, they just didn't prevent it.

But let's say old man Luke does get to that point. I don't feel like the movie got me there in a natural way. They didn't spend enough story developing that angle. I never felt like, "oh, that makes sense for Luke's character." Or, "well, Luke was never that way before, but the movie did a good job of showing me why he's that way now." Just didn't feel it, and I'm pretty sure Mark Hamill didn't either.

The movie had a lot more problems, but this is the one that I just couldn't get past. Other things include, opening that can of worms that is light speed ballistics. The casino side bar that seemingly did nothing. The weird, slow "bombers" and other strange acts of physics (almost always a problem in scifi, but this one seemed to relish it a bit). Not sacrificing yourself to save your friends but also sacrificing yourself to save your friends. The old trope of "I'm not going to tell you my plan, which is of course going to cause huge problems for us." The ending where they seem kind of happy, but there's like 12 people left on the Falcon, and every ally they had in the galaxy has either ignored them or died. Most of these I can even swim past, but they just kept adding up.

The movie did have some great visuals and some cool moments.

 

[SaharanTea]

YouTube algorithms. I watched Star Wars videos (not necessarilly theirs) .. was focused on Star Wars news . .and they show up on my feed all the time. Just reading their headlines is enough to know how much they hate on SW now and how often (literally daily). I have watched a few just to see what they are about (all negative) and now YouTube keeps throwing them up on my feed.

It is almost comical at this point to follow.
Headlines like: Lucasfilm Insider Claims studio Has an agenda against Luke Skywalker
George Lucas was Betrayed by Bob Iger .

etc. etc.

Ah, OK. That makes sense. We all sometimes get those kinds of annoying prods from our "preferences."

Unfortunately, we (humans) tend to get moved by rage, and advertisers and media people know this and use it.

I'll stop there as I don't want to drive into political territory, but I understand what you mean now.

 

[BrianL]

Gotcha, yes I have a lot of "nerd" friends as well (I generally consider myself one). We haven't talked much about the movie since it came out. In general, most of the ones I talked to didn't like it. My 10-year-old (at the time) son liked it, but he hasn't asked to even see it again, and we didn't really talk about it after leaving the theater.

I'm good with having a civil conversation about it. I respect the opinions of those who say they liked it. Everybody's different.

Luke was always the guy who dashed in to save his friends. Even in RotJ, he basically gave up his life to save his Dad. I don't think even old man Luke would cause the problem he did and then hide away like Obi and Yoda. Of course, they didn't cause the problem, they just didn't prevent it.

But let's say old man Luke does get to that point. I don't feel like the movie got me there in a natural way. They didn't spend enough story developing that angle. I never felt like, "oh, that makes sense for Luke's character." Or, "well, Luke was never that way before, but the movie did a good job of showing me why he's that way now." Just didn't feel it, and I'm pretty sure Mark Hamill didn't either.

The movie had a lot more problems, but this is the one that I just couldn't get past. Other things include, opening that can of worms that is light speed ballistics. The casino side bar that seemingly did nothing. The weird, slow "bombers" and other strange acts of physics (almost always a problem in scifi, but this one seemed to relish it a bit). Not sacrificing yourself to save your friends but also sacrificing yourself to save your friends. The old trope of "I'm not going to tell you my plan, which is of course going to cause huge problems for us." The ending where they seem kind of happy, but there's like 12 people left on the Falcon, and every ally they had in the galaxy has either ignored them or died. Most of these I can even swim past, but they just kept adding up.

The movie did have some great visuals and some cool moments.

Well, I do get that. If there is one thing I can really fault the current era of Star Wars on is not filling in enough back story and relying on novels, comics and other tie-ins to explain things - it's not very accessible. I don't know if they covered Luke's time training Ben, as I don't really follow that stuff, but I think in my mind I can see how he could get there. I don't see it as some egregious sin that he ran off - he didn't know the First Order would come in like it did. When he left, the New Republic was at peace - maybe it didn't need Jedi?

I do think the "physics" stuff is funny though. Star Wars has never had realistic physics, but what it illustrates is that when one doesn't like a movie they will nitpick every little thing, but when one does like the movie, they can gloss over the less than perfect stuff. I'm guilty of that too and can rip apart a DC movie for something I'd forgive a Marvel movie for.

The ending though is intended to show hope. It's not much different than then end of Empire Strikes Back, where Han is gone, Lando stole his clothes, and Luke lost a hand and is wrestling with a dark revelation...they still set off with a degree of hope after the beating they took. I actually do disagree with Rose in that if Finn wanted to make the sacrifice play, then I would respect that move. At the same time though, that doesn't make her a bad character, just one that made a "selfish" choice. I do think this will all play better with Ep. IX tacked on though.

 

[Brianstl]

You know, it is. I try to be understanding, because I have been "hurt" by franchises I love, but with Star Wars I really don't see what it is that set so many off. TLJ wasn't really that different for any other Star Wars movie. Yeah, it zagged when we expected a zig, but it didn't undermine the basic story as so many think. Luke's actions make perfect sense and are well within his character. Jedi have a long tradition of hiding away and questioning the rightness of their stance. In the end he stepped up and saved everyone as a hero. Even if I didn't like every plot point, I'll at least give them until Ep. IX to tie it all together. I think a lot of it stems form "other" stuff that I prefer not to go into - all I can do is shake my head at that.

I do get the passionate love that fans have for their fictional universes. I feel it all the time and I'm more than happy to dissect and criticize this stuff - sometimes it even makes me angry, so I understand the emotion here, just not the reason in this case.

I don't think that is the case for 90%+ of the people that had a major problems with TLJ. Leia and Lando are all time favorites and if that other stuff was driving it, that wouldn't be the case.

My biggest issue TLJ is it started to feel like nothing that happened prior in the story really mattered and if some of the rumors about the new film are correct this could get worse. TLJ, also, lacked the fun and humor that I got from previous movies.

 

[BrianL]

I don't think that is the case for 90%+ of the people that had a major problems with TLJ. Leia and Lando are all time favorites and if that other stuff was driving it, that wouldn't be the case.

My biggest issue TLJ is it started to feel like nothing that happened prior in the story really mattered and if some of the rumors about the new film are correct this could get worse. TLJ, also, lacked the fun and humor that I got from previous movies.

Well, I think it is the case for a lot of them, at least those groups with names and such. Maybe it's not most, but there definitely is that element in the genre-culture that is very, very vocal.

Interesting that you criticize the lack of humor, as too much "Marvel style" humor is one of the bigger complaints I've seen, like the call between Poe and Hux. I would not trust rumors about Ep. IX - I think most of that junk is fake or off base. I feel that, like they did with TFA, they are trying to court the fans this time. TFA targeted those OT fans who felt burned by the Prequels, and I get that - I was never burned by the Prequels though. I love them!