Disney's $1 billion dollar bet on magical wristband - Wired

[jade1]

Disney doesn't come to these sites for ideas.

rteetz, have you ever read this? Over 10 years ago.

Kinda hate to post it, since everybody hates it.

Certainly I didn't create FP+, but eerily familiar patent was made 8 months later:



http://www.disboards.com/threads/oh...thread-that-was-closed.3221682/#post-50474391



Was my idea used?

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=817577

Patent applied for 2005

Fast Pass to become "Pay for Play"?
According to Jim Hill Media (Link to Story), Disney has asked for a patent that will allow them to change the way fast passes are distributed. It will allow hotel guests to sign up for them in their room and will allow Disney to control your number of Fast Passes based on what hotel you are staying at and how much money you are spending.

HBC

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=817577&page=16

My post 232:

Thats us also, would we like more available as DVC members-sure, at least some days. But the convenience and planning like you say are what we would like. Kids could sleep until noon, catch some sun at the pool and then head over for TOT FP at 4PM and RNR at 5PM. That would be plenty for us. Great idea, wonder if they are reading these boards-I made a similar post last June on the Theme Parks board.

Then found the 2004 thread I started whining about it:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=595792

It would be nice if you could see the FP return times (constantly changing real time) at the other parks, or at the front gate. I could see the front gate as a bad idea for WDW because a potential customer may not enter. Then again it could at least be just INSIDE so you had to ENTER to check the times but at least you wouldnt have to walk all the way to Space Mt only to find it is out (or earlier that you want). As far as the other parks, that would be nice to know you have plenty of time (or not) to get over to EPCOT for TestTrack from MGM for example. Even better would be posted times on your hotel TV-nice incentive for on site guests. Nicer yet would be obtaining them at your hotel-could somebody stop me?

 

[Alfalfa]

Not saying that I'd be in SB either. It gets to the point where WDW is not worth it. On my previous FP+ trip and on my upcoming trip, I had a hard time deciding which attractions were worth a FP+ reservation. To me , they seem mediocre.

Exactly. The point is that Disney invested $1B or more in a system to persuade customers to utilize attractions they had no interest in whatsoever. Depending on what side of the table you sit on, that had "backfire" written all over it from the jump.

 

[Alfalfa]

Was my idea used?

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=817577

Patent applied for 2005

The only thing I see significant about some of those threads is that they shared the same fate as current FP discussions seem to enjoy - they were closed.

Are you seriously suggesting that you somehow had something to do with it? Because your efforts to promote that argument appear to go beyond simple mention.

 

[rteetz]

These are great ideas, but they will never happen because Disney has lost sight of #6

Exactly disney used to live by number 6 but they stopped doing that in the 90s.

 

[jade1]

The only thing I see significant about some of those threads is that they shared the same fate as current FP discussions seem to enjoy - they were closed.

Are you seriously suggesting that you somehow had something to do with it? Because your efforts to promote that argument appear to go beyond simple mention.

You may have missed this line:

Certainly I didn't create FP+, but eerily familiar patent was made 8 months later:

I agree, but we could be having sample conversations that other are as well. The idea's could be out there bouncing around.

 

[Alfalfa]

You may have missed this line:

No, I saw it. But the preponderance of suggestion tends to mask that brief disclaimer.

 

[DDLand]

What is this statement, "I am looking for ways to get them to do it." The only way Disney is going to switch directions is for them to see a decline in attendance and a decline in guest satisfaction. I think the guest satisfaction is declining.

I'm also seeing that more people are spending more of their vacation dollars on other activities around the Orlando area. Yes, Jade we are all aware that you have done this type of Disney vacation all along. We've seen your fishing pictures and your beach pictures. But the reality is, most people are not as wealthy as you are. So they, me included, cannot afford to stay at a Disney deluxe, go golfing in the morning and then visit a park in the evening. Instead, we make either or choices. For our next visit, we are dividing time between Universal and WDW. More than anything else, I think Universal's appeal and increasing attendance numbers may force Disney to build more attractions. IMO, their locking in guests did not pay off.

I also want to point out the latest speculation is that MDE cost 2.5 billion dollars, not the 1 billion Disney claimed in the original Wired PR piece.

I actually disagree with your standards. There are three other reasons that Disney would start investing big money in the parks.

1) There's still underdeveloped potential. If Disney feels as if there's a market that is not being properly exploited by existing products then they'll build. DHS expansion appears to be an example of this. While not critical, it is going to unlock new momentum. DAK upgrades too. Those parks aren't examples of rapidly declining attendance, but they do have potential that isn't being exploited.
2) Existing infrastructure is failing to meet the needs of its guests. This is tied slightly to your customer satisfaction, but even more due to safety. The central plaza changes, Main Street overflows, and NF are examples of this. The 1950s and 1970s parks were designed for a different era, and many aren't capable of meeting the demands placed on them. (Look at the difference between DL and DCA and you'll get the difference) TDL and WDW both were slammed with record attendance at a time when they were content being stagnate. That's why you're seeing work on the OL2023 plan and some of the work at MK. They're just trying to keep up with the guests.
3) There's operational improvments that can be gained. My Magic and much of what Tokyo Disneyland is going to be doing over the next few years is based on this. Making sure that the infrastructure in place is suitable and efficient.
4) You already covered. Changes in competition, taste, or economy could lead to this.

I don't think it's productive to bring up people's income. That's just me. I think it creates tension. Let's steer this towards the big picture. That's what news and rumors are. So far as we know Universal has had no effect on Disney. We'll see.

 

[rteetz]

rteetz, have you ever read this? Over 10 years ago.

Kinda hate to post it, since everybody hates it.

Certainly I didn't create FP+, but eerily familiar patent was made 8 months later:



http://www.disboards.com/threads/oh...thread-that-was-closed.3221682/#post-50474391



Was my idea used?

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=817577

Patent applied for 2005

Fast Pass to become "Pay for Play"?
According to Jim Hill Media (Link to Story), Disney has asked for a patent that will allow them to change the way fast passes are distributed. It will allow hotel guests to sign up for them in their room and will allow Disney to control your number of Fast Passes based on what hotel you are staying at and how much money you are spending.

HBC

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=817577&page=16

My post 232:

Thats us also, would we like more available as DVC members-sure, at least some days. But the convenience and planning like you say are what we would like. Kids could sleep until noon, catch some sun at the pool and then head over for TOT FP at 4PM and RNR at 5PM. That would be plenty for us. Great idea, wonder if they are reading these boards-I made a similar post last June on the Theme Parks board.

Then found the 2004 thread I started whining about it:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=595792

It would be nice if you could see the FP return times (constantly changing real time) at the other parks, or at the front gate. I could see the front gate as a bad idea for WDW because a potential customer may not enter. Then again it could at least be just INSIDE so you had to ENTER to check the times but at least you wouldnt have to walk all the way to Space Mt only to find it is out (or earlier that you want). As far as the other parks, that would be nice to know you have plenty of time (or not) to get over to EPCOT for TestTrack from MGM for example. Even better would be posted times on your hotel TV-nice incentive for on site guests. Nicer yet would be obtaining them at your hotel-could somebody stop me?

Disney still doesn't come to these sites for ideas. They do monitor these sites but it's mainly so things that aren't supposed to leak out don't leak out. If Disney came here for ideas that would be a problem. Disney shouldn't have to go to a site for ideas. Also the Jim hill reference means very little. He reports practically every rumor he hears.

 

[DDLand]

For Jade's edification, here are just a half dozen that might go a long way in furthering the WDW brand. Granted, it's difficult if not impossible to tie a revenue line to many of them which is why we'll never see them under the existing regime:

1. Expand the monorail circuit
2. Build a 5th gate
3. Re-purpose any attraction that currently has a wait time of less than 15 minutes even on the heaviest crowd days
4. Institute park capacity limits tied to enjoyment levels rather than safety levels.
5. Conduct non-self-serving guest surveys to determine actual expectations in terms of daily accomplishments and build capacity to meet that demand in order to remove restrictive measures like tiering.
6. Put the park guest first.

1) No.
2) Not yet.
3) Very good point. Definitelly agreed.
4) I disagree. This would be the fastest way to tick off thousands of people, and tarnish the Disney brand. If Disney World starts to get a reputation of turning people away at the gate things could get ugly. I can only imagine the Florida residents that would take a backseat to Resort guests whining.
5) I don't think there's a way to verify that they do. I'm sure Disney knows people don't like tiering. Other factors have to come into play like ops.
6) Agreed.

 

[Alfalfa]

1) No.
2) Not yet.
3) Very good point. Definitelly agreed.
4) I disagree. This would be the fastest way to tick off thousands of people, and tarnish the Disney brand. If Disney World starts to get a reputation of turning people away at the gate things could get ugly. I can only imagine the Florida residents that would take a backseat to Resort guests whining.
5) I don't think there's a way to verify that they do. I'm sure Disney knows people don't like tiering. Other factors have to come into play like ops.
6) Agreed.

It could probably go either way depending on how it's implemented. Take Discovery Cove, for instance. They receive high praises for limiting daily attendance. In fact (and I'm not endorsing this claim) they boast on their website that "For the second year in a row, Discovery Cove was chosen as the No. 1 amusement park in the world according to millions of travelers in the 2014 TripAdvisor Travelers' Choice™ Awards."

It's all about the spin.

Edit to add: Come to think of it, reserving 3 rides in one park up to two months in advance isn't that much of a stretch from reserving a place in one park up to two months in advance. So either FP+ is the fastest way to tick off thousands of people and tarnish the Disney brand, or it's just one step closer to making a park reservation.

 

[jade1]

Disney still doesn't come to these sites for ideas. They do monitor these sites but it's mainly so things that aren't supposed to leak out don't leak out. If Disney came here for ideas that would be a problem. Disney shouldn't have to go to a site for ideas. Also the Jim hill reference means very little. He reports practically every rumor he hears.

Not saying they do.

All I am saying is I have an unedited post from 2004 suggesting what I would like to see changed to FP.

A patent with much the same verbiage was filed 8 months later.

Somebody had the same idea/conversations like we are on here.

Idea's can happen, doesn't mean it came from here.

But why stop having ideas on here for conversation.

Lastly-it certainly (I hope) shows why I have liked the even improved changes they made over what I was suggesting/looking for 10 years ago before the internet cell phone age.


It would be nice if you could see the FP return times (constantly changing real time) at the other parks, or at the front gate. I could see the front gate as a bad idea for WDW because a potential customer may not enter. Then again it could at least be just INSIDE so you had to ENTER to check the times but at least you wouldnt have to walk all the way to Space Mt only to find it is out (or earlier that you want). As far as the other parks, that would be nice to know you have plenty of time (or not) to get over to EPCOT for TestTrack from MGM for example. Even better would be posted times on your hotel TV-nice incentive for on site guests. Nicer yet would be obtaining them at your hotel-could somebody stop me?

 

[DDLand]

It could probably go either way depending on how it's implemented. Take Discovery Cove, for instance. They receive high praises for limiting daily attendance. In fact (and I'm not endorsing this claim) they boast on their website that "For the second year in a row, Discovery Cove was chosen as the No. 1 amusement park in the world according to millions of travelers in the 2014 TripAdvisor Travelers' Choice™ Awards."

It's all about the spin.

I'm sympathetic to this, but they're selling to different markets. MK is still primarily a Middle Class product. They can't afford to pay several multiples off the current pricing. The wealthy may be willing to pay the extra expense of getting some of the riff raff out of the park, but that market isn't large enough to support MK. The offerings would have to be drastically cut.

The flip side is they could put the limits on without raising prices. Dangerous, as it would be total profit loss.

FP+ is the best of both worlds. Doesn't turn people away outright, but allows Disney to ration availability and effectivly optimize the labor force.

 

[jade1]

So now I know who I can blame for the POS known as FP+.... Jade!

HaHA-already covered that:

rteetz, have you ever read this? Over 10 years ago.

Kinda hate to post it, since everybody hates it.

But it helped us tremendously-so.

And thanks for crediting me with it...I mean....Are you seriously suggesting that I somehow had something to do with it?


.

 

[Angel Ariel]

since many of us want even more, how about some ideas where they can have the rides built for them

How bout starting with the 2 parks that have tiering, and no *publicly announced* plans for additions.

I'm aware of the rumors for DHS, but they are still just rumors. I was watching a disunplugged podcast from march 2013 and they were talking about these rumors (carsland/star wars.land/renaming the park) then..and yet still no announcements. I'm also aware of the Frozen ride in Epcot - that took the place of another ride, so it isn't an *addition*. The meet and greet is one addition, yes, but meet and greets have much lower capacity than rides do, so one m&g addition won't do much to address epcot's lack of attractions issue.

 

[DDLand]

It would be nice if you could see the FP return times (constantly changing real time) at the other parks, or at the front gate. I could see the front gate as a bad idea for WDW because a potential customer may not enter. Then again it could at least be just INSIDE so you had to ENTER to check the times but at least you wouldnt have to walk all the way to Space Mt only to find it is out (or earlier that you want). As far as the other parks, that would be nice to know you have plenty of time (or not) to get over to EPCOT for TestTrack from MGM for example. Even better would be posted times on your hotel TV-nice incentive for on site guests. Nicer yet would be obtaining them at your hotel-could somebody stop me?

This quote doesn't seem to be revolutionary by any stretch. Forgive me, but this seems like a natural step. They had been posting ride times near the gate for a while if I'm not mistaken, that's half the information WDW guests wanted each day. Then there was the other half, FP return times. That's a iterative almost obvious move. To say you came up with the idea is, let's just say a stretch. Then there's obtaining FPs at a hotel? Once again not too shocking of a move. Part of what made My Magic do great is it fixes problems that were frustrating for so many guests at WDW in one strike. Some obvious, some less.

I think what this means is you're thinking like WDW. That's good. What's best for guests should be on all visitor's radar because we actually are the guests! We understand.

 

[DDLand]

How bout starting with the 2 parks that have tinkering, and no *publicly announced* plans for additions.

I'm aware of the rumors for DHS, but they are still just rumors. I was watching a disunplugged podcast from march 2013 and they were talking about these rumors (carsland/star wars.land/renaming the park) then..and yet still no announcements. I'm also aware of the Frozen ride in Epcot - that took the place of another ride, so it isn't an *addition*. The meet and greet is one addition, yes, but meet and greets have much lower capacity than rides do, so one m&g addition won't do much to address epcot's lack of attractions issue.

D23

 

[Angel Ariel]

Yes guests sorry-not everybody would. SB is fine for many, and pricing would be dependant on time of year/crowds etc.

Which circles back to..if Disney felt like they could realistically charge for it, they would. I'm sure they are aware that there is more than a healthy market of people who would pay for it. So the fact that they aren't doing this already tells me that they can't for some reason...and the only reason I can think of that they *couldn't* do this is a lack of enough capacity in the other 3 parks.

 

[Angel Ariel]

D23

If it is announced then, ill be very happy. Until such time as it is, it is a rumor.

 

[DDLand]

If it is announced then, ill be very happy. Until such time as it is, it is a rumor.

A well sourced rumor. Marni, Articos, Lee, and Spirit have affirmed it. Let's see...

 

[jade1]

This quote doesn't seem to be revolutionary by any stretch. Forgive me, but this seems like a natural step. They had been posting ride times near the gate for a while if I'm not mistaken, that's half the information WDW guests wanted each day. Then there was the other half, FP return times. That's a iterative almost obvious move. To say you came up with the idea is, let's just say a stretch. Then there's obtaining FPs at a hotel? Once again not too shocking of a move. Part of what made My Magic do great is it fixes problems that were frustrating for so many guests at WDW in one strike. Some obvious, some less.

I think what this means is you're thinking like WDW. That's good. What's best for guests should be on all visitor's radar because we actually are the guests! We understand.

It's really nothing super special-it was just a complaint.

The step that went ahead for what was available, was offering to get them without going to the parks (in the hotel or on your hotel TV), the patent 8 months later had that same verbiage.

Obviously the internet cell phones took it to a whole new (unsuggested by me) level, but as you say-that would become an obvious step as well, if they were doing it on hotel TV's.