Disney's Calif…- NO - Desperate California Adventure

Two different takes:

1) a sign of the overall economic condition

2) I can get into WDW parks for next to nothing with my seasonal pass, they're not "bombs."
 
That move does not come as a complete surprise, although I didn't think it would happen quite so soon. What's more important is to reduce admission prices for out-of-state visitors as well to make the new resort more attractive.

I don't think DCA is a bomb, infact, it has quite a lot of potential. What the Disneyland Resort is currently experiencing is not unlike what Walt Disney World went through in the early 1980s after EPCOT Center opened. People there expected another Magic Kingdom-like experience, and they were served pretty much the opposite, and attendance dropped like a stone for several years in a row until the fixes that were implemented started paying off.

Now, DCA is definitely no Epcot, but it does seem to have a few very popular attractions (Screaming, Soarin, GRR, and the Animation Exhibit), as well as plenty of room to expand. There's also a whole bunch of junk to replace as the park finds its footing.

Ironically, the present management is about as slow and scared as back in the early 80s, so it will probably be slow going to get the park up to par, but if you just imagine the thing $250 million and a ToT, RnRC and state-of-the-art dark ride later, it starts to look a whole bunch better.
 
This on top of the 'bring a friend' program for annual passholders (AP holders were allowed to bring friends for $33 to either park, through the end of June).

I *do* wish people would give DCA a break... I know I'm in the minority (gate figures don't lie - much), but I really enjoy DCA. I like the coaster, I love Soarin', I like the hints of N.Ca (home), I adore the Animation exhibit, my SO likes the Soap Opera Cafe... I could go on, but the point is that there are a lot of good points to DCA that get glossed over in the general 'nay-saying' about the park. DVC, Have you even been there yet?

I'm not saying the park is as good as Disneyland or even Epcot, but it doesn't seem to me as horrible as all the bad press makes it.

Sarangel
 


I *do* wish people would give DCA a break... I know I'm in the minority (gate figures don't lie - much), but I really enjoy DCA. I like the coaster, I love Soarin', I like the hints of N.Ca (home), I adore the Animation exhibit, my SO likes the Soap Opera Cafe... I could go on, but the point is that there are a lot of good points to DCA that get glossed over in the general 'nay-saying' about the park. DVC, Have you even been there yet?

A few issues here....

1) Why should we give DCA a break? It's advertising should be able to convey the park experince to us...and so far I have found NILL about DCA to be intruiging enough for me to spend my vacation dollars there.

A little side note....I'll be in Orlando for my honeymoon in October. I had originally planned on staying within Disney confines for the entire trip....until I read Jim Hill's write up on IOA. The way he conveyed the park to me made me sit up and say "I am doing this." I haven't seen ANYTHING from ANYONE raving about DCA in such a manner....so you show something like that to me, and I'll drink Ei$ner's cool aid again.

2) So you like DCA. As you said, you are in the minority. The majority of park visitors are staying away from the place in droves. There must be a reason why.

Please explain to me why I should give DCA a break...but don't rely on your experinces. Tell me what makes DCA such a revolutionary park? What makes it different than a six flags?

I'll tell you....the name on the front.

The problem? That name doesn't seem to mean as much to the majority of vacation goers any more.
 
Categorically deny the Idea that the name disney in and of itself has lost respect in the eyes of the public any more in recent years then it had before.


Before I get jumped on, by this I mean.........Disney has never and will never be able to sell a park on name alone, BECAUSE they have set our expectations.

The general public has an understanding of what a disney park should be and they are savy enough to see that DCA lacks. and those that don't see it right away, need only go once (or so I've been told. I am not going to make assumptions here)


One of the biggest negative side effects of the Eisner/Wells era (and I don't think it is really there fault, no corporate run disney would have survived without this) Is that Disney became Faceless. It was hard to trash Walt, not only, because he was so brilliant at what he did, but also, because ihe was the company. Eisner isn't the Disney company. Oh, he tried to be, and it worked for a while.
For instance, If Walt decided to make disney's America theme park, there would be few uproars, walt is an american proud of his country, but When the media giant Walt Disney company trys to, they get beaten down, because they are faceless, they are drones that have no sense of pride in their country. It wouldn't matter if Eisner was Related to George Washington.




A more recent example. For the Anne Frank Diaries, Mike made a TV appearance to explain how important the story was to tell and that they would not have comercials. a commendable thing.granted that Walt would have done the same, but I posit that he wouldn't have had to. People would assume the sentiment.


This is a combination of changing time for america and changing corporate structure for Disney. Neither of which would be different had Eisner/Wells not taken over. As long as Disney isn't a closely held family affair.



Anyway, my point was Vacationers respect the name, that's why DL and MK see record visitors all the time, The problem is that they know what the name SHOULD represent. they are smarter then we give them credit for, although perhaps not as smart as we'd like them to be.
 
While I admit DCA is obviously not doing as well as Disney hoped, I hardly think this rate reduction makes it a bomb. After all, Disneyland has offered this kind of deal before; does that make it a bomb.

I wonder if the DCA critics would have bashed Disney's America so much. After all, many of the aspects of that park (factory tours, flight simulator, seaside amusement park) found their way to DCA.

I've been to DCA, and it's a nice, fun place. It's got its flaws, but so does every park. Attraction-wise, it's as good as the Studios or AK were when they opened. I can spend a full day there, and I'm looking forward to going again.

Of course, I think I'll wait until after summer. I hate the crowds these So. Cal. discounts bring.
 


I'm out on location today, so I'll be very quick now. I thought I had just spend too much time in the sun when I read this - heat stroke and all.

This is a MAJOR disaster for Disney. To offer ANY kind of discounts in the summer is a major shift, and I can't recall anytime "kids got in free". Say what you want, but California Adventure is a bomb in every aspect for the company. More later.

I have to seriously exam my life when I check message boards while I'm sweating in the middle of no where - but I had to qucikly pass on this bit of news.

Disney just canned the President of Motion Pictures. The basic cause was 'Pearl Harbor' and 'Atlanits'. I'll post more when I get details.
 
Please explain to me why I should give DCA a break...but don't rely on your experinces. Tell me what makes DCA such a revolutionary park? What makes it different than a six flags?

And how, precicely, am I supposed to do that? All I have to go on are my personal experiences - those of the park & those of the things I've read. I'll try, but I don't know if I can filter out those things I've seen, read or done.

1) I never said it was 'revolutionary.' I said
I'm not saying the park is as good as Disneyland or even Epcot, but it doesn't seem to me as horrible as all the bad press makes it.
- sorry I know it's a personal experience, but I figure I'm quoting previous text.

2) Six Flags (at least here in CA) is dirty, filled with video screens of cartoons, and has NO theming whatsoever. Six Flags has no reference to the history of Animation or variation in ride type - it's one roller-coaster after another. Which is fine if all you want to do is ride 'coasters.

3) No one has anything like the Soarin' technology - it's the first new ride technology I've seen in years. When was the last time you rode something that people applauded as it ended? (yes, I know that's a personal experience - sorry).

4) The park itself is beautiful (have you seen picures of the Pier area at night, across the water?), with wonderful realistic details worked into the texture of the park (the 'bike trail' through the Northern CA section looks just like trails I ride up here).

5) I have found that much of how people experience the parks depends on their attitude (and I'm not just talking DCA here). If you've decided that DCA (or DL, or MK, or AK) is going to be awful, you won't see the wonderful details or experience the thrills that are to be found.

Sarangel
 
If you've decided that DCA (or DL, or MK, or AK) is going to be awful, you won't see the wonderful details or experience the thrills that are to be found.

Let me tell you a story. I went to WDW for the first time when I was a young adult. I didn't get to experince WDW as a child. I went down to Florida totally mocking the experince.

When I got down there....I was awed. I couldn't believe the attention to detail. The meticulously maintained landscapes....every little detail thought of.

And in subsequent trips, I see that slipping away.

You can turn someone's opinion if you have a exceptional product. When you do more than you have to.

Anyone who doesn't think DCA is a horrific bomb is really under the spell. Why cut your prices during the busiest time of the year? Do they cut the prices at the hotels during the summer? No.

Why not? Because the hotels are filled. The park isn't. Thus the cuts.
 
Anyone who doesn't think DCA is a horrific bomb is really under the spell. Why cut your prices during the busiest time of the year? Do they cut the prices at the hotels during the summer? No.

Yes, this year they have. WDW resorts are offering super discounts this summer. Other members of my family have also booked some great rates in Key West that were not available in previous years. Same goes for a trip to Jax Beach we are taking in August.

Businesses that rely heavily on discretionary income are taking an absolute beating right now.

This scrambling for business exists throughout most industries right now.

Don't read this to mean that I think DCA has underperformed, but current economic conditions were not anticipated when the initial DCA projections were being made. No doubt, it's struggling, but I wouldn't hang the "bomb" label on it because of this.

HBK, seems you think that the WDW decline has happened rather rapidly. You mention your first trip was as a "young adult" At 25, I figure you still are a "young adult." How many years ago was this trip that involved unbelievable attention to detail and meticulous landscaping?

Personaly, I think these things still exist, and as good as ever. I have concerns about some of the recent attractions, but none whatsoever with the "cosmetic" issues. BTW, I've made about 60 trips to WDW over the last 24 years, so I've seen WDW at just about every stage of the game.
 
I was going to launch into a long dissertation about how California Adventure really is a bomb – creatively, financially, and artistically, but I’m tired and will spare everyone (it’s also part of my penance for introducing Landbaron to the book of Walt quotes). But one comment -- and with all respect Ms. Sarangel, -- that while ‘Soaring’ is nice, Universal did create the motion simulator/IMAX combination over a decade again. ‘Soaring’ is just a minor variation on that ride concept.

The size and timing of the discounted tickets took everyone by surprise. I have heard that new internal projections were forecasting the first’s years attendance at 3.5 million, that is down from the 5 million that was down from the initial 7 million. Internal marketing also showed very little interest in the return of the Electrical Parade. Disneyland attendance has remained at or above projections ever since California Adventure opened (which, by the way, disproves the “it’s the economy, stupid” excuse for DCA’s performance problems) – and Disney has just dropped the kid-orientated California Adventure ad campaign for one that features only Disneyland.

My guess is that the goal of the discounted tickets is to lure Disneyland guests into becoming California Adventure guests. I don’t want to say bait and switch, but that’s the point. The rumor is that Burbank really only cares about the attendance figure now. Budget cuts and prices increases can be used to hide DCA’s financial losses, but Wall Street is counting heads right now. They will do anything to get the turnstiles clicking, and this includes making WDW take a lot of the financial hit. And at $33 per adult and $0 for kids – Disney will be loosing money on every guest that enters the park.

While I personally think the discount will have very little impact on attendance, I think things will be worse if the promotion succeeds. Capacity in the park is very, very small and if all of these new guests are faced with parking problems, three hour waits for a roller coaster, and a main gate that shuts at noon, Disney is going to loose these people forever. Word of mouth is already really bad, and this could make it a whole lot worse.

P.S. – some Disney people are starting to refer to the new park as WMW – WalMart World.
 
which, by the way, disproves the “it’s the economy, stupid” excuse for DCA’s performance problems

First, I called no one stupid. Second, I didn't attribute the entire attendance problem to this factor.

To say the dismal economy has had no effect on DCA's failure to meet inital projections is a stretch.

So, Disneyland is meeting attendance expectations? I wasn't aware of this. Based on recent years performance, that would put it up over 14 million this year.

Can we at least agree that DCA's debut would have been somewhat better in the 1999 or early 2000 economy?

It seems that folks are ignoring economic conditions altogether and concluding that DCA's attendance problems are SOLELY due to it being an inferior park.
 
P.S. – some Disney people are starting to refer to the new park as WMW – WalMart World.
Ahhhh! How proud Walt would be!
...but I’m tired and will spare everyone (it’s also part of my penance for introducing Landbaron to the book of Walt quotes).
Yes! Thank you, my dear AV!! That reminds me, it's time for the quote of the day!!!!:bounce:

Taken from page 47 - on the parks:
When I started on Disneyland, my wife used to say, "But why do you want to build an amusement park? They're so dirty." I told her that was just the point - mine wouldn't be.
 
penance for introducing Landbaron to the book of Walt quotes
JeffJewell has also recently acquired "The Quotable Walt Disney" based largely upon its mention in these forums.

BwaaaaHAHAHAAHAH!

Jeff
 
Universal did create the motion simulator/IMAX combination over a decade again. ‘Soaring’ is just a minor variation on that ride concept.

Mea Culpa, AV. I haven't been out to Universal in a while (obviously).

My point to this whole arguement is that people should judge for themselves, rather than depending on the media, other posters, or company hype. I'm not saying that DCA is a success, since it is obviously short of expectations, but I am saying that I think the media is making it out to be worse than it is. I am also willing to acknowledge that I'm in the minority. I will stand by the question that I asked in the first post:
How many of the posters here have actually been there?

It is also worth pointing out that this discount in admission is good only for Southern California residents, a point that has gotten lost in the overall discussion of DCA's success, or lack thereof.



Sarangel
 
Another Voice, I assume you are refering to back to the future?

A ride which is for all practical purposes Star Tours with an Imax screen (and a horribly stupid plot) It works both ways.The motion simulator ride technology for star tours gets combined with and Imax and then the whole thing is flipped over for Soarin.

I don't recall hugely long lines at BttF at Universal Hollywood last December. I do recall hugely long lines at Star tours and It seems that Soarin is loved by many. It may not be much of a technological advancment, but it sounds like as usual, Imagineering put the components together the right way to create a better expireance. That is why its amayzing (the caveat being I've never been there.)


Incidently, I wonder what happened to all the commentators (al lutz and Jim Hill included) who reversed their stance on DCA?

A bunch of out-of staters seemed to love the park, why have they now changed their tune again. If they liked it when they went, then that's the only relevent truth. If others don't, then they don't.
 
I'm not saying that DCA is a success, since it is obviously short of expectations, but I am saying that I think the media is making it out to be worse than it is.
Two ways to look at it. You're probably right that there are people making "like it or don't like it" judgements without any personal experience, and that's silly.

Personally, I've tried to approach this argument from the point of whether or not the business decisions made in the execution paid off with business results. The fact that I've concluded the decisions concerning DCA have _not_ paid off says nothing about whether or not I like or could enjoy the park. Ain't been there, cain't say.

I'd like to mention that I personally happen to enjoy Animal Kingdom, even though I believe that the business decisions made in that case have led directly to the under-performance of the park, in a business sense. I don't mean to direct this at you, Sarangel, but it sure seems like a lot of folks 'round these parts don't see the distinction between the conversation of whether we individually "like" a park, and the debate of whether or not good business decisions were made when it was being planned and built.

Jeff

PS: The Southern California residents thing. At the risk of opening myself up to being labelled again, I'd suggest that the point of the discounts is to get people through the turnstiles; making the attendance numbers look better is paramount. Southern California residents are the ones most likely to hit those turnstiles multiple times, therefore, that's where Disney gets the biggest bang for their discount buck.

Again, two ways to look at it. You can laud Eisner's business sense for finding a way to inflate the critical numbers without spending any money, or you can criticize Eisner's lack of attention to the customer's experience for failing to address the lion's share of the customer complaints about the park (the discounts do address the "costs too much" complaints for a select minority of potential customers).

Call me negative, but because I think it was Disney's attention to customer experience that made so many of us Disney fans in the first place, that's going to be my focus.
 
From June 20 and going through September 4, Southern California residents can purchase a one-day adult ticket to Disney's California Adventure at the child's price of $33. In addition, for each adult ticket purchased one child (ages 3-9) can enter free. That means both an adult and child can enter DCA for $33.
Wow! A family of 4 can go for $66.

But wait. I'm not a Southern California resident. And my pre-teen children are "Disney adults." So I have to pay $43 times 4, which is $172.

Oh well. We were at the DCA Preview Center on Main Street last year. My wife and kids concluded that there really didn't seem to be much that would appeal to them at DCA. We've seen Bug's Life, Muppetvision and the animation tour in Florida several times. None us like thrill rides or carnival style rides. That didn't leave much. (Soarin' looked promising though.) $172 for Soarin' and to walk around? Nah... I don't think so.

I wonder how many other WDW regulars reached the same conclusion when considering whether to visit DCA?
 
Gcurling – I was quoting the line from Clinton’s first campaign. It was not directed at you or anything that you posted – Jim Carvel’s line just seemed like a good summary of one of the causes of DCA’s problems. The economic slowdown is a factor for WDW, but I think it really isn’t a factor for California Adventure because the fundamentals of the two resorts are vastly different. A trip to WDW is a major undertaking requiring planning and a lot of money for the average guest. The vast majority of Disneyland’s visitors are local – all it takes is some gas and a day. And for a change, the economy in Southern California is not that bad. Unemployment in Orange County is still under 4% I think and things are chugging along. In fact, the LA Times ran a story the other day on how California is now the fifth largest economy in the world – we just passed France.

I think that if people really wanted to go to California Adventure, they’d be going. Disneyland is doing very well and Downtown Disney is a major hit. But the mouse has yet to give people a strong enough reason to visit DCA. Worse, the locals that do show up have the lowest opinion of the park of any of the groups that Disney is tracking. People around here grow up at Disneyland, it’s a part of the culture here in ways that I don’t think people from other parts of the country can appreciate. Locals KNOW Disney – and DCA ain’t it.

No one can open an amusement park and simply expect that people to show up. The “how do you know you don’t like it until you try it” line might work to get your child to eat broccoli, but it’s not going to get anyone to part with discretionary income. People make decisions all the time about what to see and what to do without first “giving it a chance”. If I’m not willing to shell out $7.50 for a movie because the trailer didn’t interest me, why should I fork over forty-three bucks for a theme park that looks second rate? In entertainment, perception IS reality.

In the rumor mill, it’s being buzzed that the expensive “Are You Mouse Enough” campaign for California Adventure – designed to convince the public that DCA is kid-friendly – has seriously backfired. First, those families that showed up still found a park with little for small children to do and went away very upset. Second, the ad campaign managed to convince high income adults (the very people that DCA was built for) that the park was really children and turned them off in droves. A more adult-orientated campaign centered around nostalgia for the Electrical Parade will be premiering in a couple of weeks.

The grapevine is also buzzing about who’s going to take the fall for DCA. The politics are getting interesting and it’s now even money that The Shopping Mall King may get his chance to start his own production company as well.

P.S. – technology doesn’t make an attraction, the show does. In my opinion, ‘Soarin’ may share the same basic concept as Universal’s ‘Back to the Future’ – but Disney has put on a much better show.
 

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