Disney's Dark Kingdom (Complete list on pg 24)

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"Large and sprawling" is open to interpretation but I suspect it's only a matter of time before Disney announces SOMETHING for DHS. If not for the Lucasfilm acquisition, they'd be working on Cars Land now. Albeit a watered-down version of Cars Land.

They won't develop acres of new land but there will probably be some expansion along with repurposing of under-used space like Sounds Dangerous...maybe even American Idol.

Was just reading an article about how one analyst has long been sour on Disney because all of its units EXCEPT ESPN are showing poor return on capital investments. That includes the theme parks.

http://www.deadline.com/2014/05/hav...-mediocre-return-on-disneys-big-acquisitions/

That's exactly what we (as park fans) are fighting against--numbers that show Disney really doesn't reap impressive rewards when it invests in the parks. It's a very measured cat-and-mouse game. Spend too much and the returns aren't big enough to offset the investment. Spend too little and risk losing the faithful.

Disney Parks tends to be slow to capitalize on its own properties, never mind acquisitions. Of course, DPR doesn't acquire properties - it relies on the parent to do that. And when the parent acquires poisoned (as far as WDW is concerned) properties like Marvel, well...

Still, it's been almost 5 years since they acquired Marvel, which they COULD use out west - and they are only getting around to it now.
 
Disney Parks tends to be slow to capitalize on its own properties, never mind acquisitions. Of course, DPR doesn't acquire properties - it relies on the parent to do that. And when the parent acquires poisoned (as far as WDW is concerned) properties like Marvel, well...

Still, it's been almost 5 years since they acquired Marvel, which they COULD use out west - and they are only getting around to it now.

I agree Disney is slow to exploit its properties, however Marvel / Disneyland isn't necessarily the best illustration. Disney's purchase of Marvel came 2 years after the $1 billion DCA investment was approved with construction already under way. Marvel is a tough fit for the Disneyland park and DCA's die was already cast.

It's fair to argue that the Marvel film franchise didn't really hit true blockbuster status until The Avengers in 2012. The early Iron Man, Capt America and Thor films were well received, but it was The Avengers that really propelled Marvel films to a new stratosphere.

And now that the Marvel characters are more time-tested, we've reached a point where DL isn't really spending any money...complicated by the presence of Star Wars which is thematically a better fit for DL Tomorrowland.

Star Wars is time tested and the perfect fit for an enhanced presence at Hollywood Studios. I hope you aren't arguing that Disney is not working on any plans to expand the Star Wars offerings at DHS. In my mind, the only unknowns are how expansive the additions will be (how much they're willing to spend) and when it will finally be approved / announced.
 
Star Wars is time tested and the perfect fit for an enhanced presence at Hollywood Studios. I hope you aren't arguing that Disney is not working on any plans to expand the Star Wars offerings at DHS. In my mind, the only unknowns are how expansive the additions will be (how much they're willing to spend) and when it will finally be approved / announced.

No, I know there are plans, but they were put on indefinite hold, which means (like the whole Villains park, Dark Kingdom, etc.) they could be changed, scaled down, or left to collect dust.

One plus is that they supposedly have someone now in charge of trying to utilize these properties in the parks.
 
I see no angle in putting anything marvel in the US...

First, they have a space problem in California... Where they can use it...

And I think they would steer clear of the domestic market all together...too confusing to have rides using similar/same theme owned by two entirely different (and future arch rival) competitors on either ends of the country.

Cruiseline, Paris, china... Full speed ahead...us makes no real sense. It would cost a fortune and they could spend that elsewhere and lose no real effect on spending and profits.

Comcast is a serious deal...they aren't some little nuisance like six flags or the old Anheiser Busch parks...

As far as Star Wars...I won't buy anything...
Because Star Wars fans will buy anything.
They can ram star tours 2.657 and Jedi training academy down their throats for another 20 years and it will play...

Maybe the fanbase has eroded some...and perhaps not what it once was...
But who are we kidding?...they knew EXACTLY what they were buying.

Pump out a couple of decent flix (nowhere to go but up)...and take billions over billions of merchandising and gift shop gravy...
 


For the 100 millionth time...


There will be no marvel rides in wdw...

And for the 100 thousandth time... Studios is intentionally small. It was built that way and they have resisted changing that for 25 years.
It's intentional...it's not like they "haven't been able to think of anything"....that's animal kingdoms problem...

mgm is a feeder park into other areas...notably EPCOT and Downtown.

I'm skeptical they will ever do anything large and sprawling there


As for Marvel, I fully understand that the contract is tight, but I cannot imagine that they have admitted defeat on this indefinitely. Whether it is carving out some characters not currently being utilized for rides at Universal (e.g., Iron Man or Captain America) or "helping" Universal grab DC Comics from Six Flags, I will continue to hope against hope that something will eventually be done, but there are plenty of other toys to play with other than Marvel, so it will undoubtedly be a long time before that necessarily becomes a priority.

As for the size of DHS, there is still plenty of room within the existing footprint to vastly improve the park. Bite the bullet and finally do away with the rotting carcass that the Backlot Tour has become, and consider ditching America Idol and the LMA stunt show and utilizing the Sounds Dangerous stage/building, and they would immediately have more than enough room to make a solid effort at a Pixar Land and a Star Wars Land without having to sprawl beyond the current park parameters. I can get the logic that it is a feeder for Epcot or DTD (although personally I'd rather spend time in DHS than Epcot these days), but that sort of "logic" still boggles my mind. Add two or three attractions in each of the Pixar and SW categories, and DHS immediately becomes a must-do park for everybody. Hard to fathom why that would not be attractive to the powers-that-be at Disney.
 
Personally, I can't see an ENTIRE 5th gate being dedicated to a single theme like that. I can see it being a large land within one, however. Need to balance the draw among the whole guest demographic.

Considering they have themed entire lands within a park on just one movie (see Carsland, Pandora), I can absolutely see them theming a park on such a broad theme as "villains".

I'm not saying I'd agree with it (though I'd probably enjoy it) - as I'm not the biggest fan of their theming lands based on one movie either. I'm just saying I can definitely see it being possible.
 
As for Marvel, I fully understand that the contract is tight, but I cannot imagine that they have admitted defeat on this indefinitely. Whether it is carving out some characters not currently being utilized for rides at Universal (e.g., Iron Man or Captain America) or "helping" Universal grab DC Comics from Six Flags, I will continue to hope against hope that something will eventually be done, but there are plenty of other toys to play with other than Marvel, so it will undoubtedly be a long time before that necessarily becomes a priority.

It is my understanding that Universal has the theme park rights not only to the characters they are currently using, but to the entire character families of the characters that appear in their parks. So, for example, since Universal has The Incredible Hulk in the park, the entire Avengers family of characters is off limits to Disney in WDW.
 


As for Marvel, I fully understand that the contract is tight, but I cannot imagine that they have admitted defeat on this indefinitely. Whether it is carving out some characters not currently being utilized for rides at Universal (e.g., Iron Man or Captain America) or "helping" Universal grab DC Comics from Six Flags, I will continue to hope against hope that something will eventually be done, but there are plenty of other toys to play with other than Marvel, so it will undoubtedly be a long time before that necessarily becomes a priority.

Universal already has future rights to DC...it was tied into the Harry Potter Deal...Universal is just waiting for a huge buy out from Disney. And Marvel characters can not be used within 2000 miles of Universal studios as attractions per the terms of Universal's contract with marvel so even if Disneyworld wanted to use some obscure character, they won't be allowed, however, if Universal wanted to add any updates to the marvel area, they have to get Disney's permission and Disney gets a nice royalty check from Uni without even having to build any new rides.
 
It is my understanding that Universal has the theme park rights not only to the characters they are currently using, but to the entire character families of the characters that appear in their parks. So, for example, since Universal has The Incredible Hulk in the park, the entire Avengers family of characters is off limits to Disney in WDW.

I figured they had the rights...but also figured Disney might have a bit of an easier time "buying back" the rights to characters not currently being used. I love the Hulk and Spider-Man attractions at IOA and would be happy for those to stay there, as I can't imagine Disney would re-create them exactly the same anyway. Sort of like multiple movie production companies currently have rights to various bits and pieces of the Marvel universe (X-Men...Spider-Man...everything else!). For the moment, however, I'd be thrilled if they would just build out Star Wars and Pixar. If they did that, Marvel in the parks could take a back seat (as much as I'd love to see that at "home" in WDW).
 
I figured they had the rights...but also figured Disney might have a bit of an easier time "buying back" the rights to characters not currently being used. I love the Hulk and Spider-Man attractions at IOA and would be happy for those to stay there, as I can't imagine Disney would re-create them exactly the same anyway. Sort of like multiple movie production companies currently have rights to various bits and pieces of the Marvel universe (X-Men...Spider-Man...everything else!). For the moment, however, I'd be thrilled if they would just build out Star Wars and Pixar. If they did that, Marvel in the parks could take a back seat (as much as I'd love to see that at "home" in WDW).

It's been made pretty clear since they bought Marvel that there is no intention of using the character families that Universal has represented in their parks in WDW. :confused3
 
The current situation with Comcast/universal is in no way a "loss" or "defeat"...

At this point...you either get that or you dont
 
The current situation with Comcast/universal is in no way a "loss" or "defeat"...

At this point...you either get that or you dont

I do get it, at least from a financial perspective -- Disney knew what it was buying (and the restrictions that came with it) when it got Marvel. Many (if not most) Disney fans have not stopped to evaluate the details of that deal. Even so, there are lots of those Disney fans (educated on this issue or not) who would still love to see some Marvel presence in domestic Disney park rides and attractions at some point (as very few will ever visit the Asian parks), so at the very least, it's fun to dream, and it will still have some nuance of "defeat" to many people even though the cash will still keep streaming in from merchandise and movies, as well as "rent" from Universal...which theoretically allows Disney to build other attractions and improve their own parks in the meantime. It's like the fake rabbit running just ahead of the dogs at the track. Can't quite reach it, but we can still salivate at what it might taste like if and when we are able to get it. We've had a taste of it at IOA (which, with Spidey and Hulk, arguably has two of the best rides in Orlando) and want to be able to claim a tangible piece of the action in the parks....with that thirst made even worse by the fact that there are presumably a few years ahead of us in which no big rides will surface at WDW (assuming Avatar is next up)...and teasing us with a few monorail wraps is just cruel, particularly to those who do not understand why and how that deal even has to work.

In short, it's just fun to think out loud about what could be, even if it can't be.
 
Marvel will be used in a domestic park - just not WDW. They already have ironman stuff in TL at DLR, and more marvel will come there I am sure.
 
I think the idea of the villains park was played out in the digital video world of Video Game Epic Mickey. I loved the game. Interesting concept with Oswald and various villains along with all the OLD classic characters like Clarabell, Hoarace, and Pete.

I also agree that Disney will incorporate Marvel in other ways. They just recently announced a Marvel themed half marathon that's Avengers themed. While there won't be an attraction per se, the run itself is the attraction with characters presumably setup along the run. We'll see how that goes.
 
I lost focus. The idea of Epic Mickey was good as a game, but as a park wouldn't appeal to me as much. The villains get enough air time and will be more so with the new movies coming out. Halloween, the Disney nights with Villains, and the Run Disney events let you interact with the "dark side" of Disney enough.
 
They just recently announced a Marvel themed half marathon that's Avengers themed. While there won't be an attraction per se, the run itself is the attraction with characters presumably setup along the run. We'll see how that goes.

The Avengers 1/2 marathon is also out in Disneyland, which doesn't have the restrictions on the use of Marvel characters.
 
Dark Kingdom

(rumor or idea by disneysource)


Attractions


Mean Street: has buildings w/angry expressions

Pirates Cove: Captain Hook's Jolly Roger(play area), Curse of the black pearl (show), Smee's lil schooners, Tick Tock (Jungle Cruise-like w/pirate captain), Deadman's Chest (pirates) The flying dutchman (aladdin)

Ghost Town: Stinky Pete's Roundup, Phantom Mountain

The Hollow: Headless Horseman's last ride, Nightmare b4 xmas (show), Boogey Manor

Villain Ville: Hoppers (Dumbo), It's good to be bad (dark/singing), Oswald's Revenge, Welcome to Sunnyside, Scar's lair, Stromboli's

Witch Way: Dragon's Tail/Forbidden Mountain, Ursula's spell, The Broken Mirror, Gothel's Tower


Restaurants


TS = Table Service
CS= Counter Service
CM = Character Meals

Cruella de ville’s - (TS) Mean Street, Dalmatian printed dining room. Has an elaborate fountain in the middle of the restaurant. w/ European style cuisines

Lonesome Saloon - (CS) Ghosttown, A western/ghost themed restaurant owned by four ghosts who appear in reflections throughout the place. w/ burgers, chicken sandwiches, pork sandwich, etc

Be our prisoner - (CM) Witch Way, Dungeon with muck filled stone walls themed after the dungeon Prince Charming is put in in the movie "Cinderella".

Ursula’s underwater cave - (CS) Witch Way, darkly lit restaurant that consists of purple stalactites and stalagmites all throughout. w/ burgers, steak and cheese, ½ chicken, chicken nuggets, rotisserie chicken, etc

Mermaid lagoon - (CS) Pirates Cove, mermaids swim around on large screens in this shell made restaurant. w/ ribs, pizza, chicken parm, various salads, etc

Brethren court - (CM) Pirates Cove, it looks like a pirate ship with round windows that look out onto the lagoon at a huge octopus. Chandeliers and Candelabras are hanging from the ceiling and along the walls. The chandeliers have cloth drapes hanging on them while the candles have dried drips of wax on each of them.

Frankenweenie - (CS) The Hollow, it looks like a mad scientist lab, w/ hot dogs, corn dogs, chilli dogs, cheese dogs, fried dogs, etc

Monstro - (TS) Villain Ville, eat inside the whale from Pinocchio in table booths that look like boats, w/ fish and chips, chicken fingers, new york strip steak, salmon, etc


Shops, Snack Places, etc


Mean Street - Shear panic, The Dark Wardrobe, Crematorium, The Jailhouse, Gaston’'s trophy room, Mean Street Cinema, Mean Street Confectionary, Mean Street Gallery, City Howl, Town Scare Exposition

Pirate's Cove - Walk the Plank, Isla de muerta, Buccaneer Bazaar, Monkey Jack’s, Davy Jones locker

Ghost Town - Ghoulish Gifts, Stinky’s hideout, Phantom finds, Tumbleweed outpost and supply

The Hollow - Spectralmagic, Bone’s Bounty, All Hallow’s Eve Shoppe

Villain Ville - The Rabbit Hole, The Giants attic, Cave of Wonders, Lost and Found

Witch Way - Madam Mims, Spells and Such, Witch way arcade, Double Double Toil and Trouble

Snacks

Mean Street Bakery, Mean Street I Scream, Poison Apple, Barbosa's bar, The Pumpkin Barn, Queen of Hearts, Voodoo Bayou, Jafar and Iagos ice cream truck
 
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