Do You Consider Yourself a Feminist?

[Bianca and Bernard]

Agree, but my real point is that pills require more "upkeep" than some other methods. If access is a problem, implants or diaphragms require fewer doctor visits /fewer trips to the pharmacy /only one payment.
Okay, I'm trying to say this nicely, but how in the world could you NOT know that antibiotics negate the effects of birth control pills temporarily? I knew this when I was a young teen and read teen magazines -- long before I actually used birth control myself ... it was in the high school health class lectures ... and it's in the information included with each and every pack of birth control pills. Yes, it'd be nice if the pharmacist says it with every prescription, but this really is common knowledge.
Okay, I totally think no one should be forced to do something against his or her religion at work ... but this guy chose his occupation poorly. Very poorly.
I'm the mother of daughters, the aunt of nieces, and the teacher of many girls. I've talked about this with many of them, and they either say that this isn't an issue in their lives or has only been quite minor. Every job has pros/cons, and discussing pitfalls and benefits is a good idea.

As for doctors /nurses, my RN daughter says "the best deal" is to be an RN with a masters and a specialty. Why? Because it requires fewer years of school /it's possible to graduate with out loads of debt, and the money is very, very good -- without the requirements of being "on call" like a doctor. This isn't -- isn't at all -- a matter of telling girls what they can/can't do; rather, it's a matter of pointing out what's happening in the field today.

When students talk going into research, I do talk to them about how many years of education that requires and how difficult it is to get into those jobs. Again, this is about instilling realistic expectations -- not holding anyone back.
The "complete strangers" thing is overblown, but -- yeah -- birth control does make it possible for women to have consequence-free sex. Or near-consequence-free. There's a correlation between the advent of birth control and casual sexual activity.

1. Perhaps it was in your school lectures, but at the school I went to, they did not talk about safe sex. Abstinence, yes; the mechanics of sex, yes; how to be safe, no. And I didn't have a mom, she died when I was a child. No close siblings, they were all married and gone, and most out of my life because they had problems with my father. Not every teen reads the medical packet...I mean, how many adults do...not many. So maybe it's common knowledge to you, but it's not to everyone. That is the pharmacist's job, it is literally in the job description. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/pharmacists.htm
Pharmacists dispense prescription medications to patients and offer expertise in the safe use of prescriptions. They also may conduct health and wellness screenings, provide immunizations, oversee the medications given to patients, and provide advice on healthy lifestyles.

2. Not every one has someone to talk about life's pitfalls with them. I had my dad, an alcoholic who worked hard all day and then spent nights at a bar. There are kids that my kids have known that didn't know anything about adulting...I have shown at least 3 how to balance a checkbook and pay bills and how to get a job. There are still kids out there who get their sex ed from their friends, and it's not accurate information.

3. Birth control also gives men the opportunity for consequence-free sex.

 

[Moliphino]

Okay, I'm trying to say this nicely, but how in the world could you NOT know that antibiotics negate the effects of birth control pills temporarily? I knew this when I was a young teen and read teen magazines -- long before I actually used birth control myself ... it was in the high school health class lectures ... and it's in the information included with each and every pack of birth control pills. Yes, it'd be nice if the pharmacist says it with every prescription, but this really is common knowledge.

Pharmacists and doctors should tell you about prescription drug interactions. When I got antibiotics this winter for an ear/sinus infection the prescribing doctor at the walk in clinic informed me (he actually almost forgot and had to come back in the room). Since I don't take birth control for contraception it really didn't matter to me, but they should definitely tell you if what they're prescribing interferes with another medication you take.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

Pharmacists and doctors should tell you about prescription drug interactions. When I got antibiotics this winter for an ear/sinus infection the prescribing doctor at the walk in clinic informed me (he actually almost forgot and had to come back in the room). Since I don't take birth control for contraception it really didn't matter to me, but they should definitely tell you if what they're prescribing interferes with another medication you take.

I just got off the phone with a pharmacist. My husband's company changed where we get prescriptions this year, via mail order, and 5 months into the whole thing, the mail order pharmacy decided to call and make sure my husband knew about the potential side effects and drug interactions of his transplant meds. He's only been on them for 4 and 1/2 years, was on the list for 3 years prior, and had to take classes every year on this stuff to keep on the list. Accredo was a little late to the ballgame on this one. But, at least they tried, right?

 

[Prince_Hawkins]

Consenting adults are not required to be in a relationship in order to engage in intimacy -- nor are they legally required to be. Consenting adults who mutually choose to be in a relationship are free to change their mind at any point and either sever or change the terms of the relationship as they choose -- this is legally allowed.

Even in committed relationships things are not always in a state of constancy. What works at any point in a relationship may not continue to work beyond a certain point in a relationship. Only the adults in that relationship should have a say as to how they do or do not choose to resolve matters where they are not in agreement/no longer in agreement.

All of these freedoms are legally allowed to consenting adults -- as they should be. Suggesting otherwise leaves everyone open to the same possibility -- that those with different opinions may wind up in power and decide to exercise their disagreement with the way others conduct their private, intimate lives and enact laws making those practices illegal.

I don't disagree with anything you've written in the above three paragraphs.

 

[MrsPete]

1. Perhaps it was in your school lectures, but at the school I went to, they did not talk about safe sex. Abstinence, yes; the mechanics of sex, yes; how to be safe, no. And I didn't have a mom, she died when I was a child. No close siblings, they were all married and gone, and most out of my life because they had problems with my father. Not every teen reads the medical packet...I mean, how many adults do...not many. So maybe it's common knowledge to you, but it's not to everyone.

Okay, so maybe your school was lax AND you didn't have a parent or older sibling who shared such things with you. But I remember clearly reading about birth control in teen magazines in the 70s/80s; every teen magazine published a big birth control article at least every third edition. Today that information is even more widely available /very private through the internet. Who puts any medicine into her body without reading /understanding how it works?

Again, this really is common knowledge. It's as basic as taking the pill at the same time every day. It's as basic as knowing that using two methods of birth control is smarter than relying upon just one.

That is the pharmacist's job, it is literally in the job description. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/pharmacists.htm
Pharmacists dispense prescription medications to patients and offer expertise in the safe use of prescriptions. They also may conduct health and wellness screenings, provide immunizations, oversee the medications given to patients, and provide advice on healthy lifestyles.

It's also the patient's job to listen carefully to all information and to read the materials provided. Ultimately no one cares about your medications more than you yourself; thus, the ultimate responsibility is your own.
3. Birth control also gives men the opportunity for consequence-free sex.[/QUOTE]Fair enough. I should have spelled out that birth control ALSO gives men that opportunity.

I don't disagree with anything you've written in the above three paragraphs.

Legally, sure you can have sex with all the people you want -- married or not.
Now, if you ask whether it's ethical or wise, those are different questions.

 

[cabanafrau]

I don't disagree with anything you've written in the above three paragraphs.

Actually you've suggested that people who wish to engage in frequent sexual intercourse should consider why it's such a priority for them -- suggesting that you feel that your definition of frequent should somehow set the benchmark for what other consenting adults do behind closed doors. Frequent can mean many things to many people. I say that's something for consenting adults to decide for themselves without input or interference from others. Frequent to one can mean once a week, another once a day, yet another may think frequent is two or more times a day.

It doesn't matter to me what consenting adults do behind closed doors. They're free to do as they choose. I expect the same respect for my freedoms. The idea that someone else's definition of frequent needs to comport with yours has no legal basis, nor a logical one. Your opinion has value in your mind and in your own space, and that's exactly where its limits of authority end.

 

[kimmar067]

In any sense of the word...

Looking to compare to a survey that my high schoolers responded to for their sociology class.

No debate necessary.

.....I'll have to ask my DH if it's okay to answer this....

 

[Maggie Gallagher]

.....I'll have to ask my DH if it's okay to answer this....

 

[Maggie Gallagher]

I was just wondering, has Mrs. Duck, the OP, been back to her thread which launched all of these off topic political and non-political debates?

 

[pahoben]

I was just wondering, has Mrs. Duck, the OP, been back to her thread which launched all of these off topic political and non-political debates?

I haven’t seen anything from her and she is probably worried about being banned from Disney properties.

My daughters love your lower emoji and both were adding their own version of the audio.

 

[pahoben]

• 1. Perhaps it was in your school lectures, but at the school I went to, they did not talk about safe sex. Abstinence, yes; the mechanics of sex, yes; how to be safe, no. And I didn't have a mom, she died when I was a child. No close siblings, they were all married and gone, and most out of my life because they had problems with my father. Not every teen reads the medical packet...I mean, how many adults do...not many. So maybe it's common knowledge to you, but it's not to everyone. That is the pharmacist's job, it is literally in the job description. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/pharmacists.htm
  Pharmacists dispense prescription medications to patients and offer expertise in the safe use of prescriptions. They also may conduct health and wellness screenings, provide immunizations, oversee the medications given to patients, and provide advice on healthy lifestyles.
  
  2. Not every one has someone to talk about life's pitfalls with them. I had my dad, an alcoholic who worked hard all day and then spent nights at a bar. There are kids that my kids have known that didn't know anything about adulting...I have shown at least 3 how to balance a checkbook and pay bills and how to get a job. There are still kids out there who get their sex ed from their friends, and it's not accurate information.
  
  3. Birth control also gives men the opportunity for consequence-free sex.

  
  My background is somewhat different but similar.
  
  Until I was in 2nd grade no indoor plumbing and no kindergarten since no money to pay. I remember when I was maybe 5 or so that my mother told me I wouldn’t be able to go to college because we would never have enough money(I know this sounds odd and don’t remember the background to the conversation).
  
  Then divorce but in my case my mother was an alcoholic and further an angry alcoholic. I started working at McDonalds at 15 and graduated to delivering pizzas at 16. Never knew if when she came home if I would be able to sleep in the house that night. My sister started with cocaine and then became addicted to anything she could put her hands on.
  
  My saving graces were that I worked hard and did extremely well on standardized tests. Received scholarships to attend a private engineering school and then received scholarships to pursue masters in petroleum engineering and then while working as an engineer got an MBA at night. So I had difficulties as many many people do and probably not as sympathetic as I might be when people say their life was screwed or nearly screwed because a guidance counselor told them to consider nursing. I will skip a few other stories but it all turned out for the best.

 

[cabanafrau]

• 
  
  My background is somewhat different but similar.
  
  Until I was in 2nd grade no indoor plumbing and no kindergarten since no money to pay. I remember when I was maybe 5 or so that my mother told me I wouldn’t be able to go to college because we would never have enough money(I know this sounds odd and don’t remember the background to the conversation).
  
  Then divorce but in my case my mother was an alcoholic and further an angry alcoholic. I started working at McDonalds at 15 and graduated to delivering pizzas at 16. Never knew if when she came home if I would be able to sleep in the house that night. My sister started with cocaine and then became addicted to anything she could put her hands on.
  
  My saving graces were that I worked hard and did extremely well on standardized tests. Received scholarships to attend a private engineering school and then received scholarships to pursue masters in petroleum engineering and then while working as an engineer got an MBA at night. So I had difficulties as many many people do and probably not as sympathetic as I might be when people say their life was screwed because a guidance counselor told them to consider nursing. I will skip a few other stories but it all turned out for the best.

In other words, subtle biases and prejudices, no harm/no foul, only major biases and prejudices are impactful?

 

[pahoben]

In other words, subtle biases and prejudices, no harm/no foul, only major biases and prejudices are impactful?

My point is that each person is responsible for themselves and need to overcome their difficulties in life with resolve and not look for ways to be a victim.

 

[cabanafrau]

My point is that each person is responsible for themselves and need to overcome their difficulties in life with resolve and not look for ways to be a victim.

So it's someone's fault if others decide to present barriers in their path? When confronted with barriers people do not have a right to evaluate the situation and make their own best decision on how to proceed? If they don't choose the same path you would, they are wrong, their failure is their own and they are simply "looking for ways to be a victim"?

All people are not the same. All people do not have the same abilities. All people do not have the same perceptions or the same personalities to respond to a situation. Some things can boil down to pure, dumb luck, good or bad. Many who succeed will never acknowledge anything but their own efforts in regard to their success, taking it so far as to attempt to make the case that others who don't, or can't, respond in precisely the way is at fault for their lack of success, inability to surmount the odds and overcome the barriers the successful person insists they conquered solo by their efforts alone.

 

[daisy2013]

You're definitely right that birth control is a valid option for women in committed relationships, as well. And I should have acknowledged that when I'd made the post. I apologize.

It an option for any woman who wishes to take it regardless of her relationship status. Period. End of discussion. When and how often an adult woman chooses to have sexual relations with a consenting adult partner or partners is no ones business except the parties involved.

 

[kiddo76]

Sailors Created 'Rape List' Aboard Navy's 2nd Sub to Integrate Women

https://www.military.com/daily-news...ist-aboard-navys-2nd-sub-integrate-women.html

So tell me again how women are treated equally.

 

[MrsPete]

It an option for any woman who wishes to take it regardless of her relationship status. Period. End of discussion.

I'm not entirely with you. While this thread has discussed pregnancy -- especially unwanted pregnancy -- in great detail, sexual diseases are also a very real problem. They're potentially worse than an unwanted pregnancy; a baby may not be convenient right now, but a disease can be inconvenient literally for the rest of your life.

Any woman who is engaging in casual sex, especially with multiple partners /partners of whose sexual health she is not 100% certain would be absolutely nuts NOT to insist up on a condom as well as birth control pills or whatever else she may choose to use. This is about common sense, not rights.

 

[pahoben]

So it's someone's fault if others decide to present barriers in their path? When confronted with barriers people do not have a right to evaluate the situation and make their own best decision on how to proceed? If they don't choose the same path you would, they are wrong, their failure is their own and they are simply "looking for ways to be a victim"?

All people are not the same. All people do not have the same abilities. All people do not have the same perceptions or the same personalities to respond to a situation. Some things can boil down to pure, dumb luck, good or bad. Many who succeed will never acknowledge anything but their own efforts in regard to their success, taking it so far as to attempt to make the case that others who don't, or can't, respond in precisely the way is at fault for their lack of success, inability to surmount the odds and overcome the barriers the successful person insists they conquered solo by their efforts alone.

In this case it has become an ideology that often isn’t based on fact.

The women that posted about people telling her daughter she should consider nursing rather than research (in some ways very reasonable advice and nursing is no longer strictly a career path for women) also stated that male life expectancy is lower because men make bad choices. She stated it wasn’t biological it wasn’t neglect by society they simply make bad choices that result in their premature demise and that accounts for the difference in life expectancy between men and women. I pointed out that at every age the mortality rate in the US is higher for males then females. Can it possibly be that male babies from birth to 1 year of age made bad choices that resulted in their death. This is one of the mythologies of the feminist ideology. There are biological differences between men and women that impact mortality and behavior and many other things that can be claimed to not exist but in reality do exist.

I strongly support equality under the law for everyone. If there is wage discrimination then pursue in the courts. The DOJ has a progressive bent and they would love to nail a large US corporation for gender discrimination (except very progressive corporations maybe) .

Women are a majority of the population in the US and a majority of the voters and actually control much of the wealth due to life expectancy differences.

It seems to me that the feminist approach is to scapegoat men rather than making women stronger. The more they can make women the oppressed and men the oppressor the happier they are fighting the glorious fight. Women need to be stronger within themselves and not blame men for everything.

If they continue to view the solution as feminizing men rather than becoming stronger as individuals the worse it will be in the long run.

Please just strengthen yourselves and fight when you need to fight but don’t demonize men. Most men have had a rough time in life also.

I strongly believe in self defense and if a man attacks you shoot him. The old adage was God created man but Samuel Colt made them equal. A colt firearm makes women equal also when dealing with a stronger violent man. Have a gun and shoot to kill any man that attacks you.

If you want to be eternal victims you certainly can but I don’t believe that you have to be. I love and respect women immeasurably and hope that you do put an end to any real inequities that still exist but don’t do it by demonizing men. It is just not a winning strategy.

 

[Prince_Hawkins]

Actually you've suggested that people who wish to engage in frequent sexual intercourse should consider why it's such a priority for them -- suggesting that you feel that your definition of frequent should somehow set the benchmark for what other consenting adults do behind closed doors. Frequent can mean many things to many people. I say that's something for consenting adults to decide for themselves without input or interference from others. Frequent to one can mean once a week, another once a day, yet another may think frequent is two or more times a day.

It doesn't matter to me what consenting adults do behind closed doors. They're free to do as they choose. I expect the same respect for my freedoms. The idea that someone else's definition of frequent needs to comport with yours has no legal basis, nor a logical one. Your opinion has value in your mind and in your own space, and that's exactly where its limits of authority end.

I'll thank you not to take it upon yourself to tell me how I "feel" about something...

Yes, I do encourage people to consider why voracious sexual interactions with others are so pertinent to their lives. That doesn't mean they can't do it. Legally, they can. Legally, consenting adults can have whatever kinds of relationships they want -- that's where I was agreeing with you...but you seem to just want to psychoanalyze me.

This whole discussion began from the premise that irresponsible sexual practices have consequences. Why is cautioning people to think before they act so unreasonable? Would you be objecting to that suggestion if it was anybody else here in this board other than me who had suggested it?

 

[Prince_Hawkins]

It an option for any woman who wishes to take it regardless of her relationship status. Period. End of discussion. When and how often an adult woman chooses to have sexual relations with a consenting adult partner or partners is no ones business except the parties involved.

And I haven't read/observed ANYONE on this board advocating for the government regulation of time/manner/place in terms of birth control usage. Have you?