Everything I knew about myself has been broke

[mom2rtk]

She seems to have made it her responsibility as she said she insists on doing everything. She needs to work on changing how she does things before asking for change from someone else.

So it's OK for him to just check out and only do tasks he's assigned by his wife?

As I have said, clearly at this point she has no choice but to sit down and have a serious talk about what help she needs. But there is another theoretical conversation to be had about how it got to this point and who is responsible. Definitely not saying she deserves no blame. But it still feels like most here feel it's the wife's responsibility to manage the house and dole out tasks as needed. I can see that being the case if the wife is home full time, but that's not the case here. Things need to happen in a home without her initiating it. And maybe that's the way she needs to phrase it with him.

 

[Allison]

As this thread goes on, the OP’s responses are becomming more and more muddled and hard to ascertain what her actual feelings are, or if even she can clearly define them. Heck, she went from declaring “life is good” in the first post to practically agreeing with Art that she should immediately pack her bags because her husband doesn’t “treasure” her. (I thought his post was very mean-spirited, BTW.)

There’s a ton of ambiguity here, and as @Gumbo4x4 and others have so aptly pointed out, we’re only getting one, very skewed side of the story.

Yes, agreed.

 

[DLgal]

After reading more responses by you, OP, I get the feeling that this is a case of "irreconcilable differences" and it honestly sounds like your marriage and family aren't a priority for your husband at all. He seems to have mentally checked out a long time ago and you have been holding things together so well that he is just riding it out as long as he can because it's easy for him. A father should WANT to spend time with his son. A husband should want to spend time with his wife. Sounds like your husband doesn't want these things.

I'm sorry, but this doesn't seem like a marriage worth saving.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I found the comic strip interesting. I do agree and not agree. But one thing that didn't seem to be mentioned is the pressure women put on other women to be what society expects them to be. To me it's not just men here. The women who say "you should have dinner ready when your husband gets home, that's your job" or "you should be doing his laundry", "you should be doing this and doing that because it's your role".

 

[PollyannaMom]

Things need to happen in a home without her initiating it. And maybe that's the way she needs to phrase it with him.

I do think that's a great way to put it! But I also think that there will be a necessary intermediate step during which he'll need some instruction. Her DH has been spoiled for a long time! I'm sure he's capable of learning how to help without asking - but first, he'll have to learn to help at all.


And OP - There is hope. I was a SAHM for 7 years, and my DH, though quite competent, did get kind of used to not having to do much housework - because that's what worked for us in that time period. We made a joint decision that we would divide things along "traditional" lines for a while, to avoid putting DS in daycare. (Please note - I don't think that's inherently wrong; WE just didn't want a busy life right then!)

But once I went back to work part time, we re-negotiated. And when I increased my schedule, we re-negotiated again. And when his company went to work-from-home, we re-negotiated again...I'm sure you're seeing the pattern here. What worked for your family in one stage, does not work in another.

It does sound like he's willing to pitch in more, though. So start with doing just what he suggested - ask him to do a few tasks here and there. (And don't critique how he does them.) Schedule something that takes you out of the house, so he has to watch your DS. (Trust me, it's good for both of them!)

And if little-by-little doesn't work, pick a day and make a list of every single tiny thing you do. Have him do the same. Set up a time to show them to each other. He'll probably be amazed at the length of your list. (You also might find some surprise items that you didn't realize he was doing. - I definitely think men and women typically notice different things.) Then you work together to divide the list fairly into four categories:
the things you will be in charge of,
the things he will be on charge of,
the things that will be outsourced,
the things that don't really need to be done.

Be prepared for his idea of "things that don't really need to be done" to be slightly different than yours. Also be prepared for the possibility that he'll look at your list and want to explore the idea of you quitting your job. (I can't say whether that's a good idea in your case or not, but it is something he might suggest, that you definitely don't want to be blindsided by.)

And one final piece of advice - get some sleep!! Everything is worse when you're tired.

 

[Pink Partridge]

He had the nerve to tell me that its my own fault. That I don't ask for help or ask for time to myself or ask to go out or get a way for a bit.

I haven't read the other responses, but I don't think it is your fault at all. A grown man that stays up late playing games or on his phone, then sleeps in, then takes naps while allowing his wife to do all of the housework/tend to child is selfish. He is a grownup. He should know that family should come first.

And when you did bring it to his attention, he should have felt sad and shamed and apologized. But yet, he blamed you instead.

 

[sjrec]

I've not read through all the replies, but OP, please read this.

https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/

MamaBelle4, this sums it up perfectly-the mental load can be exhausting.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I just don't think it is going to help anything to encourage the OP to feel resentful and slighted (or more so than she already does) about the past. Or guilty either.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda not only doesn't change the past, it doesn't help make positive change going into the future. Patterns that have been established for 4 or more years are deeply entrenched and both parties contributed to starting and continuing them.

I think OP needs to spend some time sorting out her feelings and what she ACTUALLY wants (DH to spend more time with their son? DH to do more housework? Time to herself to just relax? etc) and then she and her husband need to plan some concrete steps to work towards attaining that goal (and not expect it to happen overnight, or do too much all at once).

So, for example, if she is having to do the far majority of housework and mental load--both can list out all they do and how often it needs doing and how long it takes (maybe he is doing things she does not realize, or vice versa, or both---DH commented after I was on a 2 week trip last October that he had honestly believed until that point that when he ran the vacuum on Saturday that was the only time it happened. I vacuum daily but dust accumulates on our wood floors---he saw that first had when I wasn't there but honestly had not known i was handling it before that). Then they can divvy up who does what and try the list for a month of two and then regroup and see what works and what doesn't and adjust as needed.

Or if the goal is to have DH spend more time engaged with the family and with the son-----creating set times he is alone with his son to build a relationship, as well as maybe a set time for a family outing every week or two and a set date night. He canNOT be forced to want that time, but it is likely that as he builds the relationship having one on one time he will grow to want it often.

ETC.

 

[maxaroni]

I haven’t read all of the replies, so if this has been said, my apologies. First of all, men by nature, are fixers. When talking to them, they want to fix a situation. If they have no ideas, they may retreat. Secondly, nobody is a mind reader, os if you do not talk to your spouse, they will not know. Thirdly, when a spouse sees the other one handling everything and seemingly doing it well, they may retreat. In other words, she is doing so well, I don’t need to do anything. Some are obtuse to the fact things need to be done.

Another thing, when a spouse tries to do things and the other spouse is overly critical, they will stop trying to help. Some try and do it all because the spouse doesn’t do it correctly, at least to them. Sort of like...I’ll do it myself so it’s done right.

When a couple gets married, sometimes it can be a struggle between how to do things as it’s her way, or his way, rather than “our way”.
Raising a child, the same thing may happen. His ideas, her ideas, etc.

Think back to how things have progressed. Have you been overly critical to how things are done, are you the one that tends to be wanting to be in control?

You need to sit down and talk to him, tell him your concerns and see if you can start from scratch. LIst the things that need to be done in the house, raising your child, etc. See who can do what’ and see if you can work through a new routine and make things better.

 

[PollyannaMom]

OP, I'm not sure if you've seen the comic that's been making the rounds recently regarding "mental load" but it popped into my mind as I've read through this thread and it might resonate with you:

https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/

If it does, maybe sitting down and sharing it with your husband might help? It certainly resonated with me and when I talked to DH about it, he had no idea of everything I felt I was juggling in addition to the practical, concrete tasks around the house that needed to be done. It's not just cleaning the bathroom, it's remembering how much of each supply you have left, what needs to be replaced and where it's on sale this week. DH really didn't realize the "behind the scenes" planning that was going on, and I think it helped to have us both on the same page of recognizing that household management takes a lot of energy and effort!

I've not read through all the replies, but OP, please read this.

https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/

ETA, In glancing through, I see someone beat me to it!

Thanks for sharing this link! I just had time to go back and read it, and I agree that the mental aspect of household and family management is so often ignored!

 

[Colleen27]

I think there are two issues here: "you" time, which it is absolutely reasonable for your husband to expect you to ask for, and help with household tasks, which any grown adult should know needs done whether or not he is specifically directed to do them.

One of the things that frustrates me most about my teens is that attitude of "you should have told me...", and it isn't something I accept as an excuse. I shouldn't have to. If the sink is full of dishes, you shouldn't have to be told to load the dishwasher. If a hamper is full, you shouldn't have to be told to run a load of laundry. If the garbage can is full, you shouldn't have to be told to take it out. If I have to constantly survey the state of the house, assign tasks, and make sure they get done, I'm putting in just as much effort as if I was to do the tasks myself. Most of maintaining a home is fairly common sense. I don't expect them to know that the floors need mopped or the ceiling fans dusted and I do keep a list of bigger chores or repair projects on the fridge for everyone to chip away at, but I do expect they exercise some skills in observation and initiative when it comes to routine tasks. And I expect the same of my husband, though that's been more of an uphill battle because his bad habits of "just tell me what to do" are far more entrenched. I willingly take on the mental work of the finances/bill paying and coordinating everyone's schedules, but I refuse to be the manager of the obvious within my own home.

Me time, on the other hand, is a very specific internal need. It isn't unreasonable to assume a grown adult will express that need to her partner. If I'm overscheduling DH, he tells me. If he wants a free afternoon to go golfing, he lets me know and makes sure I don't need him around here. And if I want a break, if I have an event I want to go to, I tell him. We can't read each others minds and we don't just know when the other is feeling overwhelmed or needs a bit of a break to recharge.

 

[mom2rtk]

I refuse to be the manager of the obvious within my own home.

That sums it up nicely.

I really think you hit the nail on the head with your post. Expecting someone to know when you need more "me" time is unreasonable. Expecting someone to see the sink full of dirty dishes and know it needs to be dealt with is reasonable.

I think that in many cases, people (both kids and adults) use "but you didn't tell me to do it" as an excuse to avoid doing work until being made to do it. It really is exhausting for one person to carry that mental load.

 

[EveDallas]

OP - I'm sorry you are going thru this. The speed at which you internalized what he said and are now blaming yourself is a concern to me. If it is at all possible I would recommend counseling.

As for men not being mind readers, I consider that excuse to mainly be a copout. Of course, everyone needs to be direct with expressing what their needs are. But why is it acceptable for the default male position to be "i'm not gonna do anything unless my wife specifically tells me directly that she needs me to do it". I feel like we have such an easy time blaming the wife for taking control or "not expressing her needs" and never look at the husband and ask why he isn't paying better attention. Why isn't he offering to help or step in? Why is his laziness being accepted? He has eyes, he can look and see that laundry needs to be done or the floor washed or the dishes put away the same as the wife can, and he should be expected to help out when he sees that something needs to be done, not only when his wife specifically says "can you wash the floor."

So agree with this! If women can see what needs to be done and do it, men can too. They just chose not to because it's easier to let someone else do it.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Expecting someone to see the sink full of dirty dishes and know it needs to be dealt with is reasonable.

That actually brings up a decade's long battle in my house. I don't mind doing dishes, but don't leave them in the sink stacked bowl, spoon, plate, fork & knife, bowl, pot, plate, cup, plate - none of it rinsed, and random pools of skanky water mixed in. Give it a quick rinse, run the crud down the disposer, then stack on the counter NEXT to the sink, not in it if you want ME to wash them.

But, I have verbalized this "rule", so if the rule gets broken, don't whine to me when you end up doing all the dishes.

 

[lisaviolet]

I refuse to be the manager of the obvious within my own home.

OMG, perfection.

Honestly Colleen, I really think you need to write a book. You are definitely the Queen of the counties of common sense and clarity.

_______________________________

OP, I have had such a myriad of thoughts reading through this thread.

First, you are not broken. Focus on what you've done and go from there. You spoke up. For some of us that is second nature and very easy. I assume from your writing that it was a very big deal for you, yes? So good on you. Focus on that to start.

Yes, you have created this dynamic. That isn't to say that you're at fault. It is what it is, but obviously it all needs to change. And look you have begun to facilitate that. Some people just ignore for decades on end.

And guess what? Your husband created his own dynamic too, living his life on his own very comfortable terms. And you've realized that both parts need to stop. You need to stop doing everything, if that is the case, and possibly micromanaging everything. He needs to realize that this, his choices for the family, is not working for his wife.

The part that worries me the most is how you portray his role as a father. I don't know what to say as I'm not sure you can change that, sigh. It reminds me of a famous Bill Maher monologue about his frustration how women don't concentrate on men who want to be fathers and desire to have a family, and leave men like him alone. This is where I think even the harshest of posters are focusing. That people don't change all that much. And that part is either acceptance or not. Hopefully I am completely wrong on this part being very difficult to change.

And I honestly don't know why you were agitated by CdnCarrie's comment about 2018? It is unreal that we are still reading about households that are not somehow fairly distributed in looking after them, whatever that looks like for each couple. I wouldn't take that as a slap to your situation, I would take it as "Yeah! It is 2018, I do need to have a relatively fair household (once again in a way that works well for both people)."

Anyway, to me you're portraying the other night as some kind of failure. And listing that you started to cry - so what? You're sad. You're frustrated and you want a better future for your family. Just congratulate yourself for not ignoring the obvious for one more minute and trudge forward. Paths like these aren't full of instant beautiful outcomes. They are difficult. But whatever the outcome is, good or bad, you obviously knew staying in the same place wasn't working for you. So just start there.

 

[CdnCarrie]

I think there are two issues here: "you" time, which it is absolutely reasonable for your husband to expect you to ask for, and help with household tasks, which any grown adult should know needs done whether or not he is specifically directed to do them.

but I refuse to be the manager of the obvious within my own home.

OMG I love the bolded statement! Like I said previously - this is 2018 not 1958 - it's a cop out to let men not take responsibility of half the home and childcare responsibilities especially if the both partners work.

As for me time I just tell my partner when I'm going out and I do so couple times a week. You need to grab time for yourself. Alternate weekend days to sleep in.
The not spending time with the child is just sad. Sorry your husband is like that. I would be sad about that too.

But one thing that would be a huge deal breaker for me would be my partner airing our dirty laundry on a public message board where you don't even have to log in to see the post. I would be livid!

 

[PollyannaMom]

The not spending time with the child is just sad. Sorry your husband is like that.

The part that worries me the most is how you portray his role as a father. I don't know what to say as I'm not sure you can change that, sigh.

I actually think he might grow in that area. (No promises, as I don't know the guy, but) I think there are a lot of people out there - maybe stereotypically men, but some women I know too - who don't have any confidence around babies and toddlers, but are fine with older kids. As the OP starts to take some time for herself, and her DH and DS bond a little, I think his comfort level and enjoyment as a father are likely to grow at least somewhat beyond where they are now.

I am a little confused about where the time away from parenting is going, though. The OP mentioned work hours. If his job officially dictates that he goes in late and comes home late, that's just part of the job - and I would assume he chose it because he's good at it, not purposely to get away from his family.

But I think she also mentioned keeping to himself at home, playing video games or something? That's a separate thing, and it's very important not to lump them together, because I'm sure the DH sees work as taking care of his family, not blowing them off, and will feel defensive if he thinks she's complaining about that.

It's a tough balance, because he likely needs some time by himself - just like the OP does (especially if he's an introvert) but it sounds to me like he's losing track of time after he's refreshed. I definitely think the "dad and lad time" needs a little push to get started!

 

[lisaviolet]

I actually think he might grow in that area. (No promises, as I don't know the guy, but) I think there are a lot of people out there - maybe stereotypically men, but some women I know too - who don't have any confidence around babies and toddlers, but are fine with older kids. As the OP starts to take some time for herself, and her DH and DS bond a little, I think his comfort level and enjoyment as a father are likely to grow at least somewhat beyond where they are now.

You're right, all possibilities. I did think of the age after I wrote.

And it's good to be optimistic for sure.

 

[Pink Partridge]

Expecting someone to know when you need more "me" time is unreasonable. Expecting someone to see the sink full of dirty dishes and know it needs to be dealt with is reasonable.

Exactly!

Hmmm, I know there are dishes in the sink. I know my wife has been at work all day and is now giving our child a bath. I'm just going to sit here and play on my phone and let her do the dishes when she is done putting our child to bed and doing the laundry. After all, she didn't tell me she wanted me to do those dishes.

 

[smiths02]

I haven't read through every reply, but some ideas. My DH has stepped up a lot, but he has a job that requires more than 40 hours a week, sometimes odd hours, and he has to stay relatively physically fit. His job is also very stressful. Anyhow, that takes a lot.

One thing is to not expect so much perfection. If you need a nap, take a nap, don't worry about household chores so much.

Just ask/tell DH that you will be doing something (I will go to dance class every Thursday after work and just do it).

Set when you need to sleep, don't stay up late to fulfill DH. Tell him when you have to go to sleep to get enough sleep and plan accordingly.

Get your child to help with things and have age-appropriate responsibilities.

Pick a hobby that you can do with your child or spouse or everyone do it together. Or get your spouse to take your child to his hobby.

Another idea is to outsource your work, hire lawn guys, hire a housekeeper (even if just once a month), order your groceries online and pick them up, etc.