Eye opening article about Orlando wages.

I think of all minimum/a little above or below wage as a learning experience, a stepping stone. These positions are in all the states and in many fields. Office job in your community (pay not the same as going to the "city"), cashier, Fast food restaurant, local store, deli, dry cleaners, Department store, etc. etc. These establishments can be found in any state.

These positions are great for a student - going to high school, college to make a few dollars. Great for a "housewife" - who has a husband and is the breadwinner/has a skilled position (or vice versa). Great for someone who is retired. Great for a mom or dad to work part time if you want to be home with your kids. If you have husband and wife, both working in low wage positions/minimum wage - one is not going to move ahead/up. Unless again, one is in school and it's temporary.

It can be a trade school too/does not have to college. A hospital job/Costco, years of experience and moving up to supervisor at any of these low-paying positions sometimes pay off and are decent. You won't be living it up but you can be above minimum wage. These jobs are hard to come by too and not worth waiting for - especially if two are in low paying jobs.

With prices going up and so much more today that was not around years ago, $15.00 should be the minimum across the states.
 
What most people overlook is that there are many roads to Dublin - college is often not the smartest choice. As an earlier poster mentioned, trade school. Many local, state and federal agencies have generous grants avail to lower income residents for trade schools. Trade schools primarily serve working adults and are much more flexible and empathetic - they know they need to work around people's schedules and often provide more emotional and other support than traditional colleges to help students succeed.

This country is facing HUGE shortages of skilled trademen as boomers retire - we desperately need car mechanics, welders, plumbers, electricians, etc.

These jobs pay well and people usually can get apprenticeships after just 1-2 years of school. With a few years' experience, many can easily outearn quite a few college grads or even go into biz for themselves- and these jobs aren't outsourced either!

Why don't the K-12 systems promote that? Shop classes are gone. Most parents consider trade and vocational schools "beneath" their child - even though their child may not be suited for college.

It's a shame and a huge waste of potential talent and skills. Most people think "college" or "minimum wage future" with nothing in between. More has to be done to reach out to people stuck in minimum wage service jobs.

BUT people have to be willing to do something for "work" they love a little less - and use their leisure time to do what they truly love. The girl in the article voluntarily left a good paying rad tech healthcare job to work for Disney - she didn't just leave a particular job or bad situation- she ditched her entire training and career to work Disney front lines because it was what she loved.

"Do what you love" is wonderful and admirable if you can make it work - but I think it's bad advice for most people - especially people who have family obligations.

If what you love to do doesn't align with what organizations need or value...if it doesn't pay the bills or feed your kids, that's a choice one has to make. Millions of us have chosen to do something we hopefully like a little or can tolerate, but hardly consider our "dream" job. But in return, we have the funds to live, do what we want outside of work, build a secure future, and enjoy a secure retirement.

I realize this doesn't apply to everyone - there are always some extenuating circumstances, but frankly, I think for a lot of people, they either didn't get the right guidance and support to find a better path earlier on - or are determined to only do "what they love" - which in the real world, doesn't always work.

Stepping off soapbox now...
 
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I think a lot of people forget that we have lost our base of manufacturing jobs in this country. Previous generations could live on unskilled labor because we had decent paying manufacturing jobs. Someone could start in a factory sweeping floors right after high school and work their way up. These jobs had good benefits, offered pensions for retirement, and gave decent raises.

Not everyone is able to go to college or even trade school. They just aren't. Some aren't able to intellectually, some aren't able to because of family circumstances, some don't have the money. Where were these unskilled laborers supposed to go? They went to the fast food/retail jobs that were supposed to be for teenagers. When those are the only jobs available, that's what you do. But, unlike previous generations unskilled labor these jobs don't come with benefits (unless you can afford to pay for them), no retirement, only 0.50 per year raise, no promotions, and if you don't like it there are 10 others willing to start your shift tomorrow. So, while these types of jobs weren't originally intended to support a family on, the fact is that there are a lot of people trying to do so because there isn't any alternative.

We have a lot of manufacturing plants here locally, 95% of the unskilled jobs at these plants are outsourced to temp agencies. 6 month assignments, no benefits at all, no retirement, no raises and no job security. Same with janitorial and mainenance jobs at the local university. These used to be great unskilled jobs that a person could live on. Now they are outsourced for minimum wage. State and city jobs, too. We have to have people to do these jobs, how do we justify the fact that a lot of them earn so little that they qualify for government assistance while working full time?
 


Im always amazed at the disconnect between those who are / always have been financially secure and those who have never been,

There is huge amount I could say, so many points in various posts I would like to address. The one thing that stands out a mile is how many just have no clue what it is actually like to come from and live in a low income area.

I see so many comments like how low income jobs are for students, retirees and housewifes. The reality is so far from that. My brain is too scrambled reading this thread, I can't formulate my thoughts.
 
I think a lot of people forget that we have lost our base of manufacturing jobs in this country. Previous generations could live on unskilled labor because we had decent paying manufacturing jobs. Someone could start in a factory sweeping floors right after high school and work their way up. These jobs had good benefits, offered pensions for retirement, and gave decent raises.

Not everyone is able to go to college or even trade school. They just aren't. Some aren't able to intellectually, some aren't able to because of family circumstances, some don't have the money. Where were these unskilled laborers supposed to go? They went to the fast food/retail jobs that were supposed to be for teenagers. When those are the only jobs available, that's what you do. But, unlike previous generations unskilled labor these jobs don't come with benefits (unless you can afford to pay for them), no retirement, only 0.50 per year raise, no promotions, and if you don't like it there are 10 others willing to start your shift tomorrow. So, while these types of jobs weren't originally intended to support a family on, the fact is that there are a lot of people trying to do so because there isn't any alternative.

We have a lot of manufacturing plants here locally, 95% of the unskilled jobs at these plants are outsourced to temp agencies. 6 month assignments, no benefits at all, no retirement, no raises and no job security. Same with janitorial and mainenance jobs at the local university. These used to be great unskilled jobs that a person could live on. Now they are outsourced for minimum wage. State and city jobs, too. We have to have people to do these jobs, how do we justify the fact that a lot of them earn so little that they qualify for government assistance while working full time?

My dad is an immigrant, came to this Country not speaking English, no money, no education. He got a job in a factory as a machinist. He made enough money to give us a middle class upbringing, save money, and retire in comfort. He brings in double the money with his social security and pension then I make in a year. I am also going to argue that this "unskilled" labor is actually unskilled. We have had a large amount of "smart" people that have come through my job that have gone onto doing something "better", that could not do the job. It was beyond their capabilities. They could not keep up with physicality of it, nor could they handle the emotional toll that it takes to do these jobs. You can be trained to do any job and saying that some are unskilled is a misnomer. These jobs where not always the bottom feeders that they are now. They used to be, and still are in most of the world, decent, normal jobs for people. ALL jobs take some kind of skill set. I can say that most people that I have met would have a very hard time working in these jobs now. It is easy to say that something is easy when you don't do it yourself. I would also like to add that neither my husband or I will have any kind of pension. The companies just don't give them anymore. I don't even get any paid time off, no vacations, no sick days, no paid holidays.
 
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There is no such thing as unskilled labor. EVERY job requires skills.
Yup...it all comes down to what the fickle, totally illogical marketplace will PAY for those skills.

Why is teaching a child less "valuable" than throwing a football?
Why is programming some new stupid app eons more valuable than helping the elderly dress and use the bathroom with dignity?

The marketplace decided it was.

What are the solutions? Can government (i.e, taxpayers) fund the difference? Change laws so companies are required to pay higher wages and reduce their profits? I don't see either of these happening anytime soon.

Can we open up more avenues to get people into training - make it easier for them? I think so. Will some people just never be suited for that or just don't have what it takes to complete training? Yes...but at some point, healthy adults over 18 have to take some responsibility for themselves (barring sickness, etc). You can't save everyone. But I think we can save more than we do now.

Trust me, there were still MANY dead end jobs with zero benefits (and fewer protections than today) in the 1930s-1970s - and many people who fell through the cracks struggled then as well.
 
To me what sometimes gets losts in the discussions is people's individual wage (whether speaking per hour or per year) are for the individual. When you start adding in other people into the mix then you add on health issues then you add on a particular area's affordability (or lack there of) that can obviously make it worse. You might think having 2 people earn income would make it better but it doesn't always. One thing I will say is not that her story can't be replicated amongst other individuals in the Orlando area but she has some circumstances that I would say burden her more that another person making her same wage *might* not be in as dire situation as her.

I wonder what the employee makes in a year because it says both her and her husband will make $45K.

I would also agree with the posts discussing CEO wages and whatnot. I do know there's a line where the company has to outweight costs for operation and what consumers are willing to pay but I disagree with the statement from the COO of Westgate Resorts: "If I said, ‘Let’s pay everyone $25 an hour,’ I would have to double my room rates. Central Florida tourism would crash. We are stuck between a rock and a hard place.”

It's more the "double my room rates" part. I find that a bit hard to believe. Obviously one can expect the room rates to go up a bit but is that really the only place you can think of spreading out the additional cost of a wage increase to workers? Really no where else to trim the fat, eh?

In respects to that though there is a plateau in which consumers just don't see the value in paying X price. And especially with WDW we see people complain all the time of the rapid and seemingly endless raising of the room rates. But again I kinda think it's lazy to go and say room rates are where you can identify ways to gain more profit to give back to your employees by raising their wages.
 
For those of you who enjoy reading, I just read a terrific play by the well known and well awarded American playwright, Lynn Nottage. It is called Sweat, and it won the Pulitizer Prize for Drama in 2017. This powerful and insightful play grapples with exactly the ideas we are grappling with in this thread. You can purchase it for ten bucks from Dramatist Play Service, Inc. if you are interested in reading it.

It is set in Reading, PA which in the 2019 census had the highest per capita incidence of poverty in the United States. Nottage went to Reading and did countless interviews, researched the city's history, etc. And then she put together a wonderful fictionalized account of what happens to a community when the big factory leaves town and makes the move to Mexico in order to lower its costs and increase its profits. This town had been a "factory town" for many decades with generations of families all working there, and the loss of the union factory jobs which kept households afloat, even as years of working there tore down their bodies, caused all sorts of community, and even family, schisms, fractures, and destruction. By the end of the play, one of the characters who had risen up in the ranks from the machines to being a floor supervisor was working two jobs at two different nursing homes and still was not able to earn enough to live in a decent, safe apartment and feed herself reliably. Her family had splintered with people taking sides as the corporation split their hoursly wages in half, took away benefits, and finally closed it down and moved it off-country. Some felt they needed to protest and picket, others felt that they had to accept the crumbs in order to survive. Still others, broke the picket line and became scabs.

In this case, the "American Dream" was to be able to make it into the union factory, work until your body couldn't do it anymore, save some of your earnings, retire with your pension, and feel proud that you and your spouse (also working there) had been able to support your family. No one was aspiring toward expensive fancy vacations, dream houses, flashy material goods. They just wanted to be able to work hard at their 40 hour a week job and do well for the people they loved.

It's a compelling, very well written, gritty play that is based on historical events and opens our eyes to hard truths about the "haves" and the" have nots" in our society. The best art mirrors life, and that is one reason that this play won the Pulitzer. I recommend it highly.
 
What are the solutions? Can government (i.e, taxpayers) fund the difference? Change laws so companies are required to pay higher wages and reduce their profits? I don't see either of these happening anytime soon.

Can we open up more avenues to get people into training - make it easier for them? I think so. Will some people just never be suited for that or just don't have what it takes to complete training? Yes...but at some point, healthy adults over 18 have to take some responsibility for themselves (barring sickness, etc). You can't save everyone. But I think we can save more than we do now.


In the state of Alabama a family of 3 qualifies for food stamps below a net income of $1,628 per month. That's $9.39 per hour full time. Our minimum wage is $7.25 per hour or $1100 net per month full time (assuming 10% deductions).

We are already subsidizing billion dollar companies who aren't paying their employees enough to live on. When DH managed a restaurant, he had several full time employees who qualified for food stamps. I've had conversations with Wal-mart employees who say the same.

This idea that it will kill commerce if we make companies pay employees more is just ........I don't know what. Just like the quote in the article about doubling room rates. How on earth does paying the lady that cleans the rooms a couple more dollars per hour add up to double the cost of a hotel room, even for one room? How many drinks does McDonalds sell in an hour compared to the number of employees in any given restaurant. What does an additional $2 per hour for the employees spread over how many sandwiches sold in a given shift come out to be? say 10 employees on an given 8 hour shift = an additional $160 per shift in wages. I have no idea what the average McDonalds makes in a shift but I don't see that doubling the cost of a hamburger.

I suppose I have a slight issue with the idea that a 35 year old woman with 2 kids who is working full time (or more) is irresponsible because she can't earn enough to feed her family without government assistance. Yes, she could go get more training and maybe a higher paying job but what if she lacks the intellectual capacity, financial support, child care, reliable transportation, time, whatever to do so? What if she lives in an area where those types of jobs aren't available even if she did go get training to do something else? Irresponsible would be sitting on her couch collecting welfare.
 
I have watched undercover boss. Now I know it may be somewhat contrived, but the overall concept remains. Few CEOs actually see how hard their entry level employees work. They probably don't want to know. They require lower level management to conform to certain payroll allowances and it's up to them to spread the money around and stay within that budget. The only way this will ever change is if they release more of their profits to help compensate their people better. I have no business experience but it makes sense to me that if they compensate their employees better they will stay around and it will save money in the long run.
 
For those of you who enjoy reading, I just read a terrific play by the well known and well awarded American playwright, Lynn Nottage. It is called Sweat, and it won the Pulitizer Prize for Drama in 2017. This powerful and insightful play grapples with exactly the ideas we are grappling with in this thread. You can purchase it for ten bucks from Dramatist Play Service, Inc. if you are interested in reading it.

It is set in Reading, PA which in the 2019 census had the highest per capita incidence of poverty in the United States. Nottage went to Reading and did countless interviews, researched the city's history, etc. And then she put together a wonderful fictionalized account of what happens to a community when the big factory leaves town and makes the move to Mexico in order to lower its costs and increase its profits. This town had been a "factory town" for many decades with generations of families all working there, and the loss of the union factory jobs which kept households afloat, even as years of working there tore down their bodies, caused all sorts of community, and even family, schisms, fractures, and destruction. By the end of the play, one of the characters who had risen up in the ranks from the machines to being a floor supervisor was working two jobs at two different nursing homes and still was not able to earn enough to live in a decent, safe apartment and feed herself reliably. Her family had splintered with people taking sides as the corporation split their hoursly wages in half, took away benefits, and finally closed it down and moved it off-country. Some felt they needed to protest and picket, others felt that they had to accept the crumbs in order to survive. Still others, broke the picket line and became scabs.

In this case, the "American Dream" was to be able to make it into the union factory, work until your body couldn't do it anymore, save some of your earnings, retire with your pension, and feel proud that you and your spouse (also working there) had been able to support your family. No one was aspiring toward expensive fancy vacations, dream houses, flashy material goods. They just wanted to be able to work hard at their 40 hour a week job and do well for the people they loved.

It's a compelling, very well written, gritty play that is based on historical events and opens our eyes to hard truths about the "haves" and the" have nots" in our society. The best art mirrors life, and that is one reason that this play won the Pulitzer. I recommend it highly.
Unfortunately, I think a lot of us saw this play out in our own small towns. I know it did in mine.
 
I suppose I have a slight issue with the idea that a 35 year old woman with 2 kids who is working full time (or more) is irresponsible because she can't earn enough to feed her family without government assistance. Yes, she could go get more training and maybe a higher paying job but what if she lacks the intellectual capacity, financial support, child care, reliable transportation, time, whatever to do so? What if she lives in an area where those types of jobs aren't available even if she did go get training to do something else? Irresponsible would be sitting on her couch collecting welfare.

exactly this. Im sure there are many many people in the low income area I'm from who are this woman. Im sure there are many women in the ghettos and projects all over America like this woman, doing the best they can, raising families but due to the area they live in, or other circumstances in their lives, they will spend their lives working in entry level jobs such as fast food places, supermarkets, cleaners, etc
 
Yeah - I mean who deserves a living wage for unskilled labor? :rolleyes:
It's harsh but true. Why would people work hard to attend college (university here in England), go into debt and give up their free time for assignments and part time work to make ends meet, only to be paid the same as someone who doesn't? There has to be some recognition for qualifications and specialised skills (e.g. doctor, nurse, lawyer).
 
Ooops. I meant to type "in the 2010 census" about Reading PA. Sorry for the error!
 
Disclaimer: I grew up lower middle class. My example is I never got that new pair of Nikes whenever I wanted, but I did get a new pair of shoes (not necessarily Nikes) each school year. My mom babysat in our home and my dad was in law enforcement. So, I never knew what it was to be poor or have lots of disposable income.

My problem with this particular article is the focus on how far away the person lives. Just a quick search of Indeed.com shows over 3,500 jobs making over $15 an hour in her town of Lakeland. Sometimes tough choices have to be made. Does she love her job so much that she's willing to sacrifice all the things in the article just to stay at Disney when it appears she has other job choices?
 

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