Fox properties as a 5th gate?

Discussion in 'Disney Rumors and News' started by Andyman100385, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. ShadeDK

    ShadeDK Permanently Staying in Room 237

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    Other PPs already have addressed the main arguments against this (including logistics, existing park improvement and limited Fox IP), so I'll throw out a conceptual argument. Disney builds theme parks. Rides, attraction, dining and shopping are all tied into a central theme or unifying identity/concept. Not to sound harsh, but "dumping ground for IP of that studio we just bought" isn't a theme for a fifth park. It's a likely train wreck (and not the fun BTMRR kind of train wreck). Could some "theme" be extracted from the Fox properties to tie them together? Maybe - but I'd say that starting with the IP and working up is backwards.

    Looking at criticisms of WDW parks and possible misfires, many of those complaints go back to that idea: an IP or idea doesn't fit the theme or is shoehorned in. I'm thinking of stuff like Dinoland and Pandora in AK, the speedway in Tomorrowland, introducing fictional narrative rides into the WP, GotG in Future World, squeezing more recent characters or properties into parades or projection shows without rhyme or reason. I didn't name DHS in that list - since that park is currently a hodgepodge of IP-focused attractions without an overall identity (having abandoned the studios part and awaiting a new name). Which is what a park based on Fox IP likely would be - where the upper end is Universal (WWoHP is amazing but the rest of UO is hit-or-miss for me) and the lower end is something like the Paramount Parks from decades ago.

    Final point: I get that developing IP-based attractions is the trend to attract visitors, but I don't think it's a coincidence that many of the strongest and most popular Disney rides aren't tied to any IP - or only to the IP that the ride itself created. To pick on the Paramount Parks a bit more, how many people these days would still visit those based on the draw of rides relying on movie IP from Top Gun, Tomb Raider, Congo and Days of Thunder? (Not knocking the rides - some of those were pretty good and are still around - but the IP connection is DOA).
     
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  2. Andyman100385

    Andyman100385 Earning My Ears

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    I certainly agree with all these points that everyone has made and I certainly agree that it would be a while. But I still feel like the only move Disney has left (I know they have tons of possible moves but the one that could really make them compete with Universal) is develop a park or areas of parks that will appeal to the crowd that tends to lean Universal. I think the stars wars park is just the beginning of lands that fully immerse you in the experience, even moreso than Disney has done already. I think it would be difficult for them to incorporate those concepts in most of the other parks, and would be easier to do with a blank canvas. Or, the counter arguement is that if you make many of your parks as immersive as star wars land is likely going to be, you may need a "simple" park that is just filled with attractions. To be clear, I think it will be a while as they are spending a ton of money in reinvesting in their existing parks. But Fox really has some good properties that while I couldn't pin point a solid idea to incorporate I would trust the imagineers. But yes you have to pick movies that are "timeless" and wont become obsolete after a period of time, which I think even Universal struggles with. But movies like Alien, Home Alone, the Princess Bride, Independence Day, are a solid core to get you started.

    They may be able to incorporate these in Hollywood Studios, although the rumors last year were that the concept and name of the park were changing. Alien Encounter was an amazing attraction but if I recall it simply didnt fit the tone of the Magic Kingdom. So make a park where that type of attraction would fit. But the properties are too huge with too much possibility to let the properties sit.
     
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  4. Lee Matthews

    Lee Matthews DIS Veteran

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    All these rides they are buildingtoo, both Star Wars one, mickey & mineys runaway even GOTG all use screens to a certain extent (not universal studios overload bad) so they can easily update overtime and keep fresh.

    I'm happy with no 5th park. Future world is getting a massive overhaul which it needs and there's plenty more they can do with Hollywood studios and Animal Kingdom, so I'd rather they focus on them. At WDW they also need to slow down in the DVC resorts and give the All stars a massive re-imagining. I'm glad there's another shopping area coming too (flamingo crossing if I remember rightly) which is welcome.

    Ultimately I want Disney to really start massively investing in Disneyland Paris. Their studios park is dire and calling for Marvel to be added. I know work is underway so I welcome that
     
  5. Micca

    Micca SAHG: Stay At Home Grandfather

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    I agree, too many options to work with what they already have. Epcot was part of the original plan for the Florida Project (although it turned out very differently from what Walt had in mind) Studios was done in a hurry to head-off Universal Studios coming to town, and AK was another pre-emptive strike at preventing a competing live animal attraction from joining the fray. As long as these parks continue to cover the bases of widely popular themes, no fifth park. Probably never.
     
  6. tlmadden73

    tlmadden73 DIS Veteran

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    What they did to DHS ... basically making it a new "gate" without making it is what they will do long before they make a whole new theme park. And transforming Epcot (and they haven't even told us everything yet) is the same thing.

    I would expect the next "expansion" (after Tron) would be getting rid of DinoLand USA for something else (or a Pandora expansion).
     
  7. beer dave

    beer dave Master of the obvious

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    Why would they need to try to gain the market segment who prefers universal? Let them have the roller coaster enthusiasts and the HP fans..... basically the one to two day visitors. Disney has always been on a different level as far as the full experience and week long family vacation.
     
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  8. dreiwhit

    dreiwhit DIS Veteran

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    Agreed. They either need more attractions or another park to help spread out the crowds.

    FWIW, my wife was recently reading travel site with quite a few reviews (she can't remember which one.) The reviewers on that site were overwhelmingly ripping WDW a collective new one over the crowded nature of the parks. IMHO, its a problem that Disney is going to have to address in the future.
     
  9. toonaspie

    toonaspie Just a poser

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    I'm glad a fifth gate isn't in the works anytime soon. Expanding the other parks is much more preferred.

    I dunno how families are able to take 1-2 week long trips to Disney World. But I always end up in situations when not even doing a week is feasible. Some families don't have the time nor the money available to invest that much into Disney, especially when they can only go once a decade or so. In my family we're lucky if we can do 5 days max per Disney trip. My next trip might be 4 days long and it's gonna be a tight squeeze to do all four parks plus Disney Springs. (We don't care for the waterparks so there's that at least.)

    Point being, I feel a 5th gate would be an extra burden for people wanting to experience everything Disney has to offer with a limited amount of money and time. Even if you don't do everything in a single park, you could at least say you got to experience the most from it. Plus starting a fifth gate with a handful of attractions would just be another park with the same crowding problems the other parks currently suffer from. Expanding the other parks should provide a little more breathing room on what's already there.

    I'm also not a fan of limited property theme parks (I mean the strictly Marvel or SW or whatever kind). If you have no invested interest in those properties, then it would be too easy a park to skip. I like the parks to have a good mix of a wide variety of properties represented.

    As long as the Fox properties aren't the heavy modern stuff and definitely NO Blue Sky, it's all good.
     
  10. maverik85

    maverik85 Mouseketeer

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    I believe that that is exactly what Disney is doing now. Hollywood Studios is in the process of bulidng two new lands and a new ride that will replace one that usually didn't see much traffic. Everything they have been taking out/replacing inthe parks have been rides with low ridership outside of peak seasons (like Ellen). They are also expanding areas a lot overall now. Pandora added two new rides to Animal Kingdom from an area that was mostly jstu meet and greets, EPCOT adding Ratatouille to an unused plot, and Little Mermaid and TRON in Magic Kingdom. Growing their slate is not something that can be done overnight and will take time but they seem to be working on that now. And I feel that that shoudl be their focus right now, improving and expanding their current parks, than buliidng a new park.
     
  11. cosmicmommy

    cosmicmommy Out of This World Mom

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    If any 5th gate were to come to Disney, it should be converting the World Showcase into its own gate, but before that could happen, they would need to add a couple new pavilions and make every country have a full-fledged attraction. Not necessarily a ride, but an attraction. With a restaurant, meet and greet, historical information and an attraction in each country, one could easily spend a whole day there. Call it 'Disney's World Showcase.'

    Then, if they put the Wonders of Life pavilion back into use, expand the use of the Imagination pavilion, fully utilize the Innoventions space and do some IP layover, they could essentially revive Future World into a fully immersive Pixar experience.

    Imagination could have Inside Out added. (not at the expense of Figment though.) Soarin' could get some UP theming. Test Track could get the Cars overlay from DCA. Seas is already Nemo which is Pixar. Mission: Space could be rethemed into Wall-E. Spaceship: Earth should remain. I know they are adding Ratatouille to France, but if they reopen Wonders of Life and use the space, they could easily bring over Monsters, Inc Laugh Floor from Magic Kingdom. Guardians should have gone into DHS and then they could have brought Incredicoaster into Epcot too. Toy Story has its own land, Merida belongs in Magic Kingdom anyway since she's a princess and then Ratatouille is already represented, so that would bring the rest of the Pixar properties into existence is Disney.
     
  12. maverik85

    maverik85 Mouseketeer

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    I'd actually say integrate Inside Out into the Wonders of Life pavilion. Since it was based around the bod having the emotions as the mascot for it would be good. Could do a simulator ride like Body Wars again going through the different lands of memories and stuff like the movie. Could do a Laugh Floor type show as well in there and then just another small attraction and meet and greets. Let figment take over fully at Imagination and revamp it some. Monster Inc. could be fit in somewhere else if they wanted, maybe around Innoventions type space and do stuff based on power/energy and have a dark ride through that building if possible.
     
  13. embracejg

    embracejg Mouseketeer

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    It's possible the most likely use for Fox is in the new name for Disney's Hollywood Studios. Disney Fox Studios. Though perhaps the Fox branding may hurt more than help with the broadcast stations and news product still existing as a separate entity uncontrolled by Disney.

    Also, if you look through the Fox catalog, there's not much that's worth exploiting in the parks beyond what Disney already had (Avatar, Star Wars) or what it can't get back from Universal (The Simpsons).

    I, however, would humbly ask for a stage show version of the Buffy the Vampire Slayer musical episode.
     
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  14. Alicefan

    Alicefan We're all mad here

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    We here in Myrtle Beach had rumors back then that Disney was looking at the property where the Hard Rock Theme Park went, with the idea of a Legends of History park idea. It sounded really lame IMO but I'm not a history lover or buff by any stretch lol. What I did think was, I don't think even Disney could pull off making anything work here in this town, let alone on that property. It's like a dead zone that used to be the hottest spot on the beach. Hard Rock lasted all of ONE season, then it was sold to Indian folk and called Rock & Roll Freestyle Park....again, one season and now it's gone. Someone lost their rear ends on that stupid idea. To give you an idea of what they tried to pull off....Try riding a kiddie coaster (think Barnstormer) to the song, "Take it Easy" by the Eagles.:rockband:....I'll give you a minute:bored:......yeah.....how about a trip-tastical 3D dark ride filled with glow painted walls and various 60's decor set to the song, "Knights in White Satin".:hippie: I WISH I were making this stuff up. It sounds like something a few pot heads would come up with while sitting around stoned one night. :ssst::shamrock::scratchinlol It happened, and it happened here in my back yard ::yes:: Google it. I'm in one of those tourist towns where it seems that everything they try to do is always done on a shoestring budget so after all the hype it ends up sucking and closes down really quickly. Our motto is, if it looks like fun, better go and do it now cos' it won't be there tomorrow. Ugh this got sooo:offtopic:
     
  15. Alicefan

    Alicefan We're all mad here

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    I can't for the life of me figure out why the Powers that be won't listen to their most loyal fans aka: Us, and make that 5th gate Lost Disney. Complete with a totally campy Tomorrowland and all....It doesn't even have to be this huge over the top park, just a small half day deal would be fine with me. Each land being MK, DL, Epcot, Studios, AK. With the best of the best in there like the REAL Imagination, World of Motion, Adventure through Inner space etc.... I mean all joking aside, can you IMAGINE the eruption in that auditorium if that announcement were to be made at D23? How much could it cost them? They HAVE all of the stuff already. At least we know they have the blueprints and all that jive. I get myself worked up just thinking about how easily they could do this. The theming is a no brainer, I don't think they understand how big of a market there is in this idea. We ALL grew up with this stuff and we ALL would jump at the chance to relive our childhood. It would be an absolute game changer in the theme park industry. Something never done before and hard to recreate for other brands out there because let's face it....ain't nobody sitting around daydreaming about the good old days of Six Flags. So much potential there and no one will listen to me. lol Sure, kids now-a-days might not show any interest, but if they would hurry up and get this done before the first generations start dying off...think about it. Grandparents and parents would INSIST on taking their kids and showing them what it was like when THEY were little if not just for a comparison to how times have changed and to have a chuckle. The crowds would be there. I just know it. Okay, I'm off my soapbox and I'm going to lay down and cry lol.
     
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  16. kstew_11

    kstew_11 Earning My Ears

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    I like the idea of a 5th gate, and a more thrilling park, but I just don't see Disney doing it, at least for a long time. I think right now they are focusing on expanding their current theme parks. Now if they do have another park, using FOX properties could be a good idea, but I think when Disney bought FOX they were more focused on the TV, movie, and streaming aspects rather than theme park. If there was a 5th theme park, I would like it to be villain themed, with lots of thrill rides.
     
  17. maverik85

    maverik85 Mouseketeer

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    From a business stand point it would be a pretty poor idea overall. Fans would probably love it but it would be living on through pure nostalgia. And especially if you go back to the stuff that closed decades ago and were made like how they were when it originally opened they would only really have much appeal to people that experienced them. Younger generations would think they look really crappy next to more modern rides and are not as fun/boring. But if they tried to change them and make them more updated the people wanting them back would be upset that it's still not the same and is too different and it would receive a lot of backlash. So when it first opened it would probably do well running on nostalgia but in the long term the people that would care about the stuff there would eventually stop visiting or pass on and the park would hold no real appeal to anyone looking to vacation there to draw in more crowds 20 years down the line. They would have to be constantly updating and changing out attractions there to match the nostalgia for the current older generations at any given time which would be extremely costly.
    So as nice as it would be to see a return of some of these beloved attractions of the past, from a purely business stand point it would be a terrible move and so is why it is likely never to happen.
     
  18. Alicefan

    Alicefan We're all mad here

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    I have to strongly disagree because....because well you're ruining my life! :rotfl2: One thing though, I don't see how changing out rides as generations go on would be any different than what they do now with tearing things down and coming up with new technology to put in it's place. I would think it would be much cheaper considering something in another park would just be relocating. I still say they'd make money on it for a good while, and if it goes by the way of discovery island...they made their money and on to the next idea like everything else.
     
  19. DBDiz

    DBDiz Mouseketeer

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    I don't ever see that as being a feasible option, for two reasons. The rides that are removed from parks are either a) unpopular or have lost a significant amount of foot traffic and no longer turn over enough guests to warrant staying open, or b) have deteriorated to the point that maintenance to keep the ride open and overall ride downtime is more costly than the foot traffic it does bring in (and, if this were the reason for closing, then it would require rebuilding the ride from the ground up in order to relocate it). In both of those cases, you are talking about relocating a subpar ride to a park filled with other subpar rides. It just doesn't make any sense.
     
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  20. Alicefan

    Alicefan We're all mad here

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    You guys are killing my dreams lol. I hear ya, but what you said has got me to wondering why they haven't killed Imaginations yet? There is never anyone even in that area of the park let alone on that ride.
     
  21. maverik85

    maverik85 Mouseketeer

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    Agreed. Plus you couldn't just move an attraction from a current park right into the nostalgia park. It would need to be out of service for a bit to really hit that nostalgia point and have people missing it. If it just relocated it would just continue to be the same looked over attraction it was in the old place. Also as DBDiz pointed out it wold likely need replaced due to age.
    Also the changing of rides is different from now as it would need to be on a larger scale. Basically the entire park would need to be changed out every 10-20 years. Right now most of the rides that are in the parks have been there for much longer than that. They only really take them out and replace them when they absolutely have to. There are many attractions, especially at Magic Kingdom, that have been around since near the time the park opened. Animal Kingdom hasn't really had any major attractions removed since it's opening day over 20 years ago now and no real signs of it being done soon either. They have changed a few shows and taken out some meet and greets, but pretty much all the rides from opening day are still around.
     

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