Game of Thrones - Season 8 - NO SPOILERS PLEASE

Cannot_Wait_4Disney

Ok all you A cattle, get in ...
Joined
May 18, 2005
I loved the dragons, & the one dying last night made no sense.

I said to my daughter, "George R R Martin never would have killed the dragon."

And I also don't get why Dany didn't say "dracarys" & have her dragon send fire raining down on Euron & his fleet?
Because she's afraid of those things that couldn't hit a wallowing blimp that have by some miracle hit her highly maneuverable dragons?
 

hopemax

Note to Self:
Joined
Apr 1, 2000
I said to my daughter, "George R R Martin never would have killed the dragon."
I sort of had the opposite thought. We know George provided the show runners with certain plot points of how this ends, even if it was left to the show writers to figure out how to make it happen. So I kinda felt like they had a note that, "Rhaegal must die before they reach King's Landing." Maybe even by Euron's hands. Contributing factor for setting up The Mad Queen. Bad days ahead for Drogon, I expect as well. IMO, it felt like "checking off a box" without much more thought than that. But in the books, I'm sure it will take more than 5 minutes for Dany's Army to get from Winterfell to the South, and will play out in a more logical sequence.
 

tex1989

Mouseketeer
Joined
Mar 13, 2018
This thing moves so fast if you don't jump on it first thing Monday morning that I have not caught up on the posts.

My feelings after Sunday's episode (realizing that these are my thoughts alone and I have read no spoilers or other peoples speculations) I am one of those who is what I call the show view as opposed to the book view. To explain, in previous discussions here I said that episode 3 was no shock to me because I knew the White Walkers defeat had to happen because based on watching the show I have always thought it was about the Game of Thrones, you win, or you die. However the book readers pointed out that in the books the point was the GOT was secondary to the fight for the survival of humanity. I don't know what is right, other than the show is way past the books and heading down it's own path. So in keeping with that way of thinking Sunday's show was no surprise, dead dragon: check, Cersi pissing off the Dragon Queen, check, setting up the ultimate confrontation, check. But in the end the show has never been about the battles, but rather the characters so in that regard I think the show is really where I expected it to be, about the characters. For Jon and Dany to show up with two dragons and a big army was just to easy. So you level the playing field by taking out a dragon, and the battle of Winterfell taking out a lot of the army. So now the odds are questionable, but instead of being about armies and battles its about the people.

So I understand that no character is beyond death, I also know that George RR Martin does not believe in happy endings. So I am not looking for resolution that makes me all warm and fuzzy in the end. But.... so help me if they do not resolve all the personal stories and conflicts in the next two episodes I will be ready to riot.

Conflicts that have to be concluded:

Cerci is still on Ariaya's list and her failure to accept Gendry's proposal says she knows what she is, a killer and that's why she rides to Kings Landing
The Hound has a date with his brother, the Mountain and therefore he rides with her to Kings Landing
Jamie has paid his debt to Breianne, he knighted her he fought beside her, he bedded her, and now he goes to Kings Landing after confessing what a misirable human he is to presumably kill Cersi
Grey Worm is nothing but vengence over the death if his love (hint, don't plan your future on the beach with your love till the war is over)
Dany is pissed and therefore is going to make irrational decisions when it comes to Cersi (that woman knows how to push peoples buttons, doesn't she?)
Yara has been off presumably building ships and gaining forces for revenge against Euron (I mean anyone left on the Iron Islands did not follow Euron off to war so I guess whoever is left is loyle to the old king and Yara)
Tyrion has a bone to pick with Cersi, but has to walk a fine line because he loves Dany but if they don't defeat her enemies she might light him up
And finally Jon, what is to become of Jon, at this point at least in my mind his story has sort of taken a back seat to everything else, so for that reason at this point, I am guessing he gets the throne in the end and Sam becomes his Meister who records the history and even though I have not read the books I have been told that he is actually the one telling the story years later.

In the end I think they defeat Cersi because someone kills her ala Night King, not in battle but up close, one on one.

That's my two cents and probably none of it will come to pass.
 
  • lovin'fl

    Registered
    Joined
    Jun 7, 2011
    This thing moves so fast if you don't jump on it first thing Monday morning that I have not caught up on the posts.

    My feelings after Sunday's episode (realizing that these are my thoughts alone and I have read no spoilers or other peoples speculations) I am one of those who is what I call the show view as opposed to the book view. To explain, in previous discussions here I said that episode 3 was no shock to me because I knew the White Walkers defeat had to happen because based on watching the show I have always thought it was about the Game of Thrones, you win, or you die. However the book readers pointed out that in the books the point was the GOT was secondary to the fight for the survival of humanity. I don't know what is right, other than the show is way past the books and heading down it's own path. So in keeping with that way of thinking Sunday's show was no surprise, dead dragon: check, Cersi pissing off the Dragon Queen, check, setting up the ultimate confrontation, check. But in the end the show has never been about the battles, but rather the characters so in that regard I think the show is really where I expected it to be, about the characters. For Jon and Dany to show up with two dragons and a big army was just to easy. So you level the playing field by taking out a dragon, and the battle of Winterfell taking out a lot of the army. So now the odds are questionable, but instead of being about armies and battles its about the people.

    So I understand that no character is beyond death, I also know that George RR Martin does not believe in happy endings. So I am not looking for resolution that makes me all warm and fuzzy in the end. But.... so help me if they do not resolve all the personal stories and conflicts in the next two episodes I will be ready to riot.

    Conflicts that have to be concluded:

    Cerci is still on Ariaya's list and her failure to accept Gendry's proposal says she knows what she is, a killer and that's why she rides to Kings Landing
    The Hound has a date with his brother, the Mountain and therefore he rides with her to Kings Landing
    Jamie has paid his debt to Breianne, he knighted her he fought beside her, he bedded her, and now he goes to Kings Landing after confessing what a misirable human he is to presumably kill Cersi
    Grey Worm is nothing but vengence over the death if his love (hint, don't plan your future on the beach with your love till the war is over)
    Dany is pissed and therefore is going to make irrational decisions when it comes to Cersi (that woman knows how to push peoples buttons, doesn't she?)
    Yara has been off presumably building ships and gaining forces for revenge against Euron (I mean anyone left on the Iron Islands did not follow Euron off to war so I guess whoever is left is loyle to the old king and Yara)
    Tyrion has a bone to pick with Cersi, but has to walk a fine line because he loves Dany but if they don't defeat her enemies she might light him up
    And finally Jon, what is to become of Jon, at this point at least in my mind his story has sort of taken a back seat to everything else, so for that reason at this point, I am guessing he gets the throne in the end and Sam becomes his Meister who records the history and even though I have not read the books I have been told that he is actually the one telling the story years later.

    In the end I think they defeat Cersi because someone kills her ala Night King, not in battle but up close, one on one.

    That's my two cents and probably none of it will come to pass.
    I am with you. I have read the books but I still see GOT as just that a game to see who get's the throne. I saw the NK story as a way to weaken Dany's army and give time to Cersei to strengthen hers. I don't see the books as being all about the war on humanity with the NK....I don't know....maybe I need to reread the books but they are huge suckers and GRR sure did lose focus near the end and added dozens of unnecessary characters. So I will stick with the show. And I no longer care if the fat man writes the last book...lol.

    But I agree with this post and where the show is going. More will die...the mountain, the hound, cersei....who knows who all else. Probably Jaime and Greyworm and even Dany. I agree that it seems Jon will end up on the throne. But maybe not. A lot of the stuff out there may be to distract us or surprise us....like the writers saying the cast and most fans didn't guess the ending....that may be bull to throw us off that Jon will in fact get the throne (which I'd say 1/2 of the fans have guessed). I just saw some You Tube stuff about another dragon, a bigger one...again, to distract us and surprise us from what actually will happen.
     

    RangerPooh

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 6, 2005
    I'm at a point where Dani can go. In the last episode she was clearly jealous of the loyalty that the people had to John and Sansa. You could see it in her body language and facial expressions. She's upset because the people at Winterfell don;t love her or idolize her. She's trying to gain it by granting Gendry the Lordship, but we'll see how far that gets her. Plus she has concern that John will claim the throne that she so badly wants. She has reached obsessive levels over it. Fearful of others who may get in her way. I can see her going evil/crazy, heck both Tyrion and Varys are concerned about her.

    Dani riding the dragons into the fleet was ridiculous. You'd think that someone would have done some recon or been waiting for the block aid. Just like the battle with the white walkers she could have rained down on them with fire and been done with them. Death of her dragon is going to destroy her, but wouldn't be surprised if there are more eggs that have been discovered.

    Felt bad for Gendry when Arya turned him down. Fingers crossed for her to change her opinion. Perhaps become a queen not a lady?

    Brienne, wahoo, yet sad when Jaime bailed on her. Thormond (sp?) felt for him when she rejected him yet again. All he wants is the giant woman.
     

    cabanafrau

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 10, 2006
    I'm expecting to say goodbye to several characters in this next episode, including a personal favorite. I expect a finale of personal battles, very personal battles. For all the talk of who takes the throne one who is never mentioned is one who has claimed an allegiance to the people of the realm and does not appear to be making a claim for or have the means to seek the throne himself. Far fetched, absolutely. Would make for a wild twist the audience doesn't expect. In that respect I can see it tantalizing these writers. I don't think for a minute they're at all constrained by Martin's endgame -- which I have irrationally high hopes for.

    Fool that I am, I hold out hope that the morning after finale I will be greeted with news of a book release -- at very long last. I feel I am owed.
     

    Wendy31

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 5, 2005
    I know there's probably not going to be a happy ending. Game of Thrones is not a happily ever after fairy tale.

    Jon & Dany aren't going to have matching Iron Thrones & reign nicely w/ their dragon babies. They're not going to marry & match everyone off & have the couples set up as benevolent rulers over the different kingdoms.

    However, I would like a satisfying, well thought out ending.

    I also realize that, due to the show runners or HBO or a combination of the both deciding that this would be the last season, they've had to speed up the story line. Plots that used to have a slow burn & build up slowly to their crescendos are now having to move a lot more quickly, so, when that happens, the stories lose some of their depth & nuance. The plots can't be as multi-layered. Things happen off screen.

    That said, I think your plots can still make sense. Your characters can still act & react within the framework both of how their characters have been drawn & of how their characters have grown throughout the course of the show.

    So, there was a lot of stuff that just didn't make too much sense to me in the last episode.

    I don't think the Brienne we've come to know would have begged Jamie to stay & then turned into a crying mess when he left. She'd be sad. She'd reason w/ him, list reasons why he should stay. But she wouldn't beg. And she'd be stoic.

    Dany is flying in the air on Drogon w/ Rhaegal beside her. How did she not have a clear view of Euron's fleet in time to do something about it? If Euron were hidden, how did he have a clear shot of Rhaegal? If he took Rhaegal down so easily, why was Drogon able to dodge the arrows so easily?

    And, like I've said before, WHY didn't Dany send dragon fire down on Euron - especially after Rhaegal went down? We just saw her do that very thing to the Night King in the last episode.

    Standing there on the wall w/ her archers & the Mountain, Cersei could have taken out Dany & Tyrion & the small army she had w/ her right then & there. In a real world, she would have. I know, for story purposes, she couldn't end them all w/ 2 episodes left, but, still, it required a suspension of disbelief that she wouldn't.

    However, I will say that the scene w/ Tyrion looking up & Cersei looking down was filmed & framed amazingly well. And, the whole time, I was on the edge of my seat, expecting her to kill Tyrion. But I also halfway expected Bronn to kill Tyrion - a bookend moment w/ the same weapon w/ which he killed his father. (And, in earlier seasons of GOT, I think Tyrion would have been killed.)

    I've read different commentary on Sansa's remark about still being "a little bird" w/o Ramsay & Littlefinger & all the other stuff having happened to her. And I'm not sure where I stand. On one hand, it's true. On the other hand, I'd like to think she would have ended up strong & resolute w/o having to have been raped first.

    I've also read commentary on Missandei's death - the one black woman dying in chains. However, I didn't see it that way. Instead, I saw it as more true to the original GOT - the truly innocent get caught up in everyone else's machinations & end up losing. And, if you survive, you don't stay innocent very long.

    Oh, & I have to mention the Jon & Sam good-bye scene. Once the characters were actually speaking, it was fine. But, prior, Sam & Gilly stepped up into the scene like they were in a high school play.

    And, Jon saying good bye to everyone felt like it was the last time he'd ever see Winterfell & the North.

    My feelings on Dany & her becoming the Mad Queen - it's deserved. Emilia Clarke had some truly amazing facial expressions in this episode! And I'm still sympathetic to the character. She came North w/ her army & dragons to help Jon Snow. She ended up losing the most, &, while Jon has so many friends & family rallying around him, she does not. And her true friend just got her head chopped off in front of her. She's alone.
     
  • Disneylover99

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 17, 2012
    I'm at a point where Dani can go. In the last episode she was clearly jealous of the loyalty that the people had to John and Sansa. You could see it in her body language and facial expressions. She's upset because the people at Winterfell don;t love her or idolize her. She's trying to gain it by granting Gendry the Lordship, but we'll see how far that gets her. Plus she has concern that John will claim the throne that she so badly wants. She has reached obsessive levels over it. Fearful of others who may get in her way. I can see her going evil/crazy, heck both Tyrion and Varys are concerned about her.
    I’m ready for her to go as well.
    I’m not even sure I want to see Jon on the throne like I once did. He’s the popular, predictable choice, but I just don’t really care at this point. I think I’ll root for whoever kills Cersei to get the throne. That would be fine with me.
     

    Not My Fault!

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Feb 29, 2008
    It seems the further away the writers move from the GRRM influence of the books, the more bizarre the plot lines and character actions have become. We’ve seen this move away from true “storytelling” and into the realm of television writing. It’s very good television writing, but there is a sea of difference between what we saw in seasons 1-5 and what we’re seeing now. It’s shambolic and more than a little bit disappointing…
     

    Cannot_Wait_4Disney

    Ok all you A cattle, get in ...
    Joined
    May 18, 2005
    .

    Dany is flying in the air on Drogon w/ Rhaegal beside her. How did she not have a clear view of Euron's fleet in time to do something about it? If Euron were hidden, how did he have a clear shot of Rhaegal? If he took Rhaegal down so easily, why was Drogon able to dodge the arrows so easily?

    .
    Euron's fleet was cloaked by the most powerful force in the universe. Plot Armor.
     
  • Best Aunt

    "That's the best-est present ever!"
    Joined
    May 1, 2009
    I’m not sure Arya taking the Hounds face will also change her from a small girl to a giant man - I think it’s just the face and not that body that she ‘wears’...
    There is a fan theory that Jaime dies and Arya takes his face; that lets her get in Cersei’s vicinity to kill her. And I’ve been wondering about the height issue.

    Somebody might have addressed it here; I think my phone skipped over some posts.

    Edited to add: apparently there was a prophecy that Cersei will be killed by her younger brother. She and Jaime are twins but she was born first.
     
    Last edited:

    Sandeep1

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Dec 20, 2018
    There is a fan theory that Jaime dies and Arya takes his face; that lets her get in his sister’s vicinity to kill her. And I’ve been wondering about the height issue.

    Somebody might have addressed it here; I think my phone skipped over some posts.
    That would be amazing!!
     

    lovin'fl

    Registered
    Joined
    Jun 7, 2011
    When she takes the face the charms work to make her whole body appear as that faced person so she will be Jaime's height and shape with his face on.
     

    Christine

    Would love to be able to sit on
    Joined
    Aug 31, 1999
    There is a fan theory that Jaime dies and Arya takes his face; that lets her get in Cersei’s vicinity to kill her. And I’ve been wondering about the height issue.
    I think when someone takes a face (and J'gar did many times), they become that person versus just changing the face. So I don't think height is an issue.
     

    LovesTimone

    Christmas Day 2017
    Joined
    Apr 29, 2009
    I was thinking about all this and reading what everyone and all the fans have to say....

    Here's my take on tonight for what it worth...

    I think that maybe Sansa is going to rally the other houses, who still have men to fight, and possibly Torrmond and the wildling into fighting for Jon... as he is the rightful heir... possibly with the help of Varys, and Tyrion...

    Bran is going to possibly have a vision of where Rhageal sword is, which might be lightbringer... or some way into the red keep to help them get inside...

    I have seen alot of forward thinking that there might be more dragons, that we are unaware of... and that could and would be cool...

    I have a friend that is really really into the story and she said, and in the books that there are Dragon eggs hidden under Winterfell, and that it is heated by some sort of volcanic fischer... she thinks that its dragons breath...or that there might be another Dragon under Winterfell held by magic... or that there are more dragons that are with the stonemen... and that they will come to aid Dany and Jon, she also has another thought ... which is not really something that I am familiar with... that Jamie and Cersci are really Targaryens, instead of Tyrion he is the only true Lannister... something about a prophecy and a conversation where Tryion is told that he is a true Lannister his fathers son... I'm really not sure about this... anyone any thoughts on it...

    I still think at some point or really hope at some point that Jon gets to ride Drogon... or that drogon come to protect him and he gets on him...

    As well why could they not armour Drogon's chest in some way to help protect him...

    I think that Jamie is going to kill Cersci... she will try to do what the mad king did set the city on Fire... and blame Dany for it....and he will not let her... I don't see him making it out... I am hoping that he will go back to Lady Brienne...

    I still think that there might be a chance for Arya and Gendry... once she finishes her list... then what else is she to do...no one left to kill... so this is a big thing...

    I think Jon is going to be pretty mad that his dragon, which was named after his father has died, so Euron's day are numbered...

    I think maybe that the Golden company is going to switch side at some point... and the iron bank is going to come into play possibly...
     

    Not My Fault!

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Feb 29, 2008
    I was thinking about all this and reading what everyone and all the fans have to say....

    Here's my take on tonight for what it worth...

    I think that maybe Sansa is going to rally the other houses, who still have men to fight, and possibly Torrmond and the wildling into fighting for Jon... as he is the rightful heir... possibly with the help of Varys, and Tyrion...

    Bran is going to possibly have a vision of where Rhageal sword is, which might be lightbringer... or some way into the red keep to help them get inside...

    I have seen alot of forward thinking that there might be more dragons, that we are unaware of... and that could and would be cool...

    I have a friend that is really really into the story and she said, and in the books that there are Dragon eggs hidden under Winterfell, and that it is heated by some sort of volcanic fischer... she thinks that its dragons breath...or that there might be another Dragon under Winterfell held by magic... or that there are more dragons that are with the stonemen... and that they will come to aid Dany and Jon, she also has another thought ... which is not really something that I am familiar with... that Jamie and Cersci are really Targaryens, instead of Tyrion he is the only true Lannister... something about a prophecy and a conversation where Tryion is told that he is a true Lannister his fathers son... I'm really not sure about this... anyone any thoughts on it...

    I still think at some point or really hope at some point that Jon gets to ride Drogon... or that drogon come to protect him and he gets on him...

    As well why could they not armour Drogon's chest in some way to help protect him...

    I think that Jamie is going to kill Cersci... she will try to do what the mad king did set the city on Fire... and blame Dany for it....and he will not let her... I don't see him making it out... I am hoping that he will go back to Lady Brienne...

    I still think that there might be a chance for Arya and Gendry... once she finishes her list... then what else is she to do...no one left to kill... so this is a big thing...

    I think Jon is going to be pretty mad that his dragon, which was named after his father has died, so Euron's day are numbered...

    I think maybe that the Golden company is going to switch side at some point... and the iron bank is going to come into play possibly...
    All of these plot points would be very cool to see play out over the final 2 episodes, but alas I think you're giving these writers waaayy too much credit. They have lost their minds. They've reduced themselves to using a dollar store captain jack sparrow as a major plot device.

    The only thing I hope to see is the Hound and Arya making a pit stop at Hot Pie's "Hot Pies and Ale Emporium" on their road trip to Kings Landing.
     
    Last edited:

    lovin'fl

    Registered
    Joined
    Jun 7, 2011
    I was thinking about all this and reading what everyone and all the fans have to say....

    Here's my take on tonight for what it worth...

    I think that maybe Sansa is going to rally the other houses, who still have men to fight, and possibly Torrmond and the wildling into fighting for Jon... as he is the rightful heir... possibly with the help of Varys, and Tyrion...

    Bran is going to possibly have a vision of where Rhageal sword is, which might be lightbringer... or some way into the red keep to help them get inside...

    I have seen alot of forward thinking that there might be more dragons, that we are unaware of... and that could and would be cool...

    I have a friend that is really really into the story and she said, and in the books that there are Dragon eggs hidden under Winterfell, and that it is heated by some sort of volcanic fischer... she thinks that its dragons breath...or that there might be another Dragon under Winterfell held by magic... or that there are more dragons that are with the stonemen... and that they will come to aid Dany and Jon, she also has another thought ... which is not really something that I am familiar with... that Jamie and Cersci are really Targaryens, instead of Tyrion he is the only true Lannister... something about a prophecy and a conversation where Tryion is told that he is a true Lannister his fathers son... I'm really not sure about this... anyone any thoughts on it...

    I still think at some point or really hope at some point that Jon gets to ride Drogon... or that drogon come to protect him and he gets on him...

    As well why could they not armour Drogon's chest in some way to help protect him...

    I think that Jamie is going to kill Cersci... she will try to do what the mad king did set the city on Fire... and blame Dany for it....and he will not let her... I don't see him making it out... I am hoping that he will go back to Lady Brienne...

    I still think that there might be a chance for Arya and Gendry... once she finishes her list... then what else is she to do...no one left to kill... so this is a big thing...

    I think Jon is going to be pretty mad that his dragon, which was named after his father has died, so Euron's day are numbered...

    I think maybe that the Golden company is going to switch side at some point... and the iron bank is going to come into play possibly...
    I too think along these lines and was just saying as much to my son at Mother's Day brunch. But he deflated my bubble by pointing out the above (what Not My Fault posted)...the writers have taken a siesta on the show and we will get a cliffnotes story instead of a GRR Martin story. The writers are done and ready to move on. So sad. So I am not expecting much and, honestly, what all can we get in just 2 episodes?
     
    Last edited:

    hopemax

    Note to Self:
    Joined
    Apr 1, 2000
    I told my DH that it's interesting how fans have shifted over the years. At the beginning it was, "Oh no, what if the show gets ahead of the books?"

    Later: "Thank goodness they are making this great TV show so we will at least know how it ends if George never finishes the books."

    Now: "Oh please, let George finish the books! So we can have a proper ending!"

    For awhile, I was wondering how people would accept differences between the TV show vs George's version for the last 2 books. Would fans at large think "Who cares, we know how it ends." But it looks like fate found a way for the books to remain relevant to people beyond the pre-TV show readers/voracious Fantasy readers who would have read the final 2 anyway. It's kind of makes the spoiler of who will end up on the Iron Throne akin to a re-telling of a historical event. Even though "you know how it ends," it doesn't ruin or diminish the need for great storytelling. The differences between a full book on a subject vs an encyclopedia entry.

    Although, I really doubt that there is a Brienne love triangle anywhere in the books. So shippers will be disappointed. I haven't read them. When the show started, I told DH I would wait until the 6th book was published. That has been since amended to, "I will wait until the last book has been sent to the publisher." I'm kinda hoping that seeing how unsatisfying the show has become, has motivated George to write furiously, "This is not how it is supposed to go, you twats!" *bangs away on his keyboard.*
     

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