Harnesses/Leash for 7 year olds?

[maxiesmom]

Or maybe some people could stop being so judgmental. Maybe worry about your own family and not other people

Maybe don't post something if you don't want other people to comment on it???

I agree, boys will be boys is crap.

 

[Allie1348]

Hi guys, flew out yesterday and we start our Disney adventure tomorrow! Thanks for the encouragement, we decided to use the harnesses for DD7 and DS7. We put the harness part on them before transport to the airport and then attached the reins parts when at check-in. DD kicked up a fuss and tried to move away from us at first but she only served to prove why she needed the harness...
We had to remove them for security but apart from that they kept them on till we were on the plane and they then came back out again once we had landed. They seemed to work reasonably well, although I did have one woman who said rather too loudly “that those two were too old for a leash” which made me so angry. .
We took the wrist rein with us too and actually used it with DS9 in departures when he was just too giddy to listen, and kept doing stupid things. He didn’t like that very much at all but it kept him safe, and I think Id do it again if he acted up again.

 

[chelynnah]

I’d have asked if she felt she could take responsibility for two runners to have at it! And which would she follow when they went two different ways.

Or that you value your children’s lives and safety more than the opinion of a judgemental busybody.

I’m glad it’s working for you. Just roll your eyes at the naysayers and carry on.

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

We took the wrist rein with us too and actually used it with DS9 in departures when he was just too giddy to listen, and kept doing stupid things. He didn’t like that very much at all but it kept him safe, and I think Id do it again if he acted up again.

Restraint used as a punishment. This bothers me. The moment the harnesses/leash/reins are used as a punishment, I consider that you cross a line.

 

[DisneyOma]

Restraint used as a punishment. This bothers me. The moment the harnesses/leash/reins are used as a punishment, I consider that you cross a line.

Sounds like the OP's older son is also on the spectrum. It was used to keep him safe, not as punishment.

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

Sounds like the OP's older son is also on the spectrum. It was used to keep him safe, not as punishment.

If you read the OP only one child has a learning difficulty. In any event, there has to be a correlation between a child’s human rights, a child’s best interests, the welfare of the child and the least restrictive option. Harnessing/leashing ‘naughty’ children is rarely the least restrictive option. As another poster said, if you do attach a child to you, then you use it to ensure that you are following the child not to restrain or punish the child. My goodness, if harnesses and leashes are they least restrictive option for naughty children, then let’s put them on dementia patients, all adults with disabilities or difficulties, prisoners, errant husbands and wives..... where would you draw the line? It is very clear from the entirety of this thread that the OP uses the harness and leash to punish, to restrain and for convenience. If ‘safety’ is a justifiable excuse, what does that say about the vast majority of parents who do not abuse their children in this way? Please don’t ‘normalise’ the OP’s behaviour.

 

[Allison Joy]

If you read the OP only one child has a learning difficulty. In any event, there has to be a correlation between a child’s human rights, a child’s best interests, the welfare of the child and the least restrictive option. Harnessing/leashing ‘naughty’ children is rarely the least restrictive option. As another poster said, if you do attach a child to you, then you use it to ensure that you are following the child not to restrain or punish the child. My goodness, if harnesses and leashes are they least restrictive option for naughty children, then let’s put them on dementia patients, all adults with disabilities or difficulties, prisoners, errant husbands and wives..... where would you draw the line? It is very clear from the entirety of this thread that the OP uses the harness and leash to punish, to restrain and for convenience. If ‘safety’ is a justifiable excuse, what does that say about the vast majority of parents who do not abuse their children in this way? Please don’t ‘normalise’ the OP’s behaviour.

Let me start off by saying I have no children. That being said, I see no problems with the OP using a harness to keep her children safe. And yes, that it why she is using them. Let's put a few of the other examples you used into perspective.

1. Prisoners -- besides the fact that it's laughable to compare the OP's situation to a prisoner, they most certainly do use restrictive devices in prisons. All the time.
2. Elderly dementia patients -- They typically cannot RUN away, and there are certainly plenty of "restrictive" devices that people use to keep them safe; they just may not be as visible as a harness. A wheelchair is often used so they don't wander. My dad had dementia and before he passed last December, my mom put child locks on the bedroom door handle because my dad would wander, and we didn't want him getting out of the house. I live with them (her, now) and my mom could open the door in an emergency, and I could have opened it from the outside. We did it to keep my dad safe and so my mom wouldn't worry.
3. Children are still learning. They do not have all the rights an adult has, and so it is reasonable to have restrictions for children that we do not have for adults.
4. I have no children of my own but I absolutely would not hesitate to use a harness on any children I may have, whether or not they have a disability. I have some physical restrictions that are not readily apparent. I simply could not chase after a run away child. And if I had a child that never ran away, I wouldn't use it. But if I had a child who didn't listen and I knew would run if they disagreed with me then yes, I'd use it. So perhaps that is "punishment" but I see it as keeping a child safe.

To take the OP out of this and to make it a hypothetical situation, what would you recommend for someone who may be in a situation similar to the one I mentioned above? Would you recommend I never let the child out of a stroller? Would you recommend I never go anywhere with them alone? Would you recommend I use a harness all the time so it's not seen as "punishment?" Or, the other extreme, would you suggest I never try to restrain ("punish") them,if they run away? I'm genuinely curious as to what you would suggest, because I may have children one day and would like to avoid using a harness, but I see it as an almost inevitable solution in certain situations.

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

Let me start off by saying I have no children. That being said, I see no problems with the OP using a harness to keep her children safe. And yes, that it why she is using them. Let's put a few of the other examples you used into perspective.

1. Prisoners -- besides the fact that it's laughable to compare the OP's situation to a prisoner, they most certainly do use restrictive devices in prisons. All the time.
2. Elderly dementia patients -- They typically cannot RUN away, and there are certainly plenty of "restrictive" devices that people use to keep them safe; they just may not be as visible as a harness. A wheelchair is often used so they don't wander. My dad had dementia and before he passed last December, my mom put child locks on the bedroom door handle because my dad would wander, and we didn't want him getting out of the house. I live with them (her, now) and my mom could open the door in an emergency, and I could have opened it from the outside. We did it to keep my dad safe and so my mom wouldn't worry.
3. Children are still learning. They do not have all the rights an adult has, and so it is reasonable to have restrictions for children that we do not have for adults.
4. I have no children of my own but I absolutely would not hesitate to use a harness on any children I may have, whether or not they have a disability. I have some physical restrictions that are not readily apparent. I simply could not chase after a run away child. And if I had a child that never ran away, I wouldn't use it. But if I had a child who didn't listen and I knew would run if they disagreed with me then yes, I'd use it. So perhaps that is "punishment" but I see it as keeping a child safe.

To take the OP out of this and to make it a hypothetical situation, what would you recommend for someone who may be in a situation similar to the one I mentioned above? Would you recommend I never let the child out of a stroller? Would you recommend I never go anywhere with them alone? Would you recommend I use a harness all the time so it's not seen as "punishment?" Or, the other extreme, would you suggest I never try to restrain ("punish") them,if they run away? I'm genuinely curious as to what you would suggest, because I may have children one day and would like to avoid using a harness, but I see it as an almost inevitable solution in certain situations.

1. In the U.K. we don’t shackle prisoners, so this is a cultural difference. Handcuffs are only used for specific reasons and for minimal amounts of time.
2. Again in England and Wales the Mental Capacity Act makes it a criminal offence to restrain a person lacking capacity, whether openly or covertly. In order to lock a person in, whether at home or in a hospital environment. a Deprivation of Liberty Order would have to be obtained. The standards applied would be ‘Is it in the best interest of the person?’ combined with ‘Is it the least restrictive option?’. Using a wheelchair to restrain and restrict the movement of a person with dementia is outright abuse. Unforgivable.
3. The key word here is ‘reasonable’. Also the rest of the world recognises that children have equal if not greater Human Rights than adults. Perhaps take the time to read this, https://www.unicef.org.uk/child-rig...y_leaflet_Child_Rights_Partners_web_final.pdf

4. As soon as the use of a leash/harness is in response to what you consider to be the poor behaviour of the child, then it is being used as a punishment and it is a form of abuse.

What would I recommend? Attend parenting classes before conceiving and consider what you can do to improve your mobility or perhaps hiring a Nanny to assist you. Put your future child’s needs before your own.

 

[ZZBane]

If you read the OP only one child has a learning difficulty. In any event, there has to be a correlation between a child’s human rights, a child’s best interests, the welfare of the child and the least restrictive option. Harnessing/leashing ‘naughty’ children is rarely the least restrictive option. As another poster said, if you do attach a child to you, then you use it to ensure that you are following the child not to restrain or punish the child. My goodness, if harnesses and leashes are they least restrictive option for naughty children, then let’s put them on dementia patients, all adults with disabilities or difficulties, prisoners, errant husbands and wives..... where would you draw the line? It is very clear from the entirety of this thread that the OP uses the harness and leash to punish, to restrain and for convenience. If ‘safety’ is a justifiable excuse, what does that say about the vast majority of parents who do not abuse their children in this way? Please don’t ‘normalise’ the OP’s behaviour.

Do you have young kids? If so, they must be perfect. They must listen to every word you say at all times. Lucky you. They must not have any form of disability. Again, lucky you.

To insinuate that the OP is abusing her child because she puts a harness/leash on him is disgusting.

if you don’t have kids... well, everyone is the perfect parent until they have kids.

In either case, your ignorance is disturbing.

To the OP - you are on a form of social media where people and their opinions run amuck. Take them with a grain of salt. I don’t do social media, except this, because people can be absolutely terrible. I hope you know that all of us on here, unless you know them personally, shouldn’t matter. It’s your family. Your kids. Your rules. I would never let anyone make me feel bad for the way I choose to keep my kid safe. I know you asked for thoughts/opinions. You certainly got them. Why this is even a controversial subject in the first place is beyond me. Parents do what they need to do for THEIR kid. Period. If other people don’t like it, then they don’t have to do it to their own kid

 

[Allison Joy]

1. In the U.K. we don’t shackle prisoners, so this is a cultural difference. Handcuffs are only used for specific reasons and for minimal amounts of time.
2. Again in England and Wales the Mental Capacity Act makes it a criminal offence to restrain a person lacking capacity, whether openly or covertly. In order to lock a person in, whether at home or in a hospital environment. a Deprivation of Liberty Order would have to be obtained. The standards applied would be ‘Is it in the best interest of the person?’ combined with ‘Is it the least restrictive option?’. Using a wheelchair to restrain and restrict the movement of a person with dementia is outright abuse. Unforgivable.
3. The key word here is ‘reasonable’. Also the rest of the world recognises that children have equal if not greater Human Rights than adults. Perhaps take the time to read this, https://www.unicef.org.uk/child-rig...y_leaflet_Child_Rights_Partners_web_final.pdf

4. As soon as the use of a leash/harness is in response to what you consider to be the poor behaviour of the child, then it is being used as a punishment and it is a form of abuse.

What would I recommend? Attend parenting classes before conceiving and consider what you can do to improve your mobility or perhaps hiring a Nanny to assist you. Put your future child’s needs before your own.

I'm not going to reply to everything, because I don't want to continue an argument that won't be resolved in this setting, but I do want to clarify a couple of things.

2. Sorry. I don't think I was clear in at least part of my statement on people with dementia. I certainly didn't mean strap them in to a wheelchair and not let them move. That most certainly is abuse. What I meant is that if an individual has mobility limitations anyway, a wheelchair could be used to help keep them from wandering, and to help them move around, which in this case would be the least restrictive environment.

3. I think our definitions of "reasonable" may be different, and that's okay. To me, using a harness in certain situations could be "reasonable."

 

[EveDallas]

If you read the OP only one child has a learning difficulty. In any event, there has to be a correlation between a child’s human rights, a child’s best interests, the welfare of the child and the least restrictive option. Harnessing/leashing ‘naughty’ children is rarely the least restrictive option. As another poster said, if you do attach a child to you, then you use it to ensure that you are following the child not to restrain or punish the child. My goodness, if harnesses and leashes are they least restrictive option for naughty children, then let’s put them on dementia patients, all adults with disabilities or difficulties, prisoners, errant husbands and wives..... where would you draw the line? It is very clear from the entirety of this thread that the OP uses the harness and leash to punish, to restrain and for convenience. If ‘safety’ is a justifiable excuse, what does that say about the vast majority of parents who do not abuse their children in this way? Please don’t ‘normalise’ the OP’s behaviour.

Using a harness is abuse??? All righty them. We have VERY different definitions of abuse.

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

I'm not going to reply to everything, because I don't want to continue an argument that won't be resolved in this setting, but I do want to clarify a couple of things.

2. Sorry. I don't think I was clear in at least part of my statement on people with dementia. I certainly didn't mean strap them in to a wheelchair and not let them move. That most certainly is abuse. What I meant is that if an individual has mobility limitations anyway, a wheelchair could be used to help keep them from wandering, and to help them move around, which in this case would be the least restrictive environment.

3. I think our definitions of "reasonable" may be different, and that's okay. To me, using a harness in certain situations could be "reasonable."

It is always interesting to read other viewpoints. The world would be a very boring place if everyone always agreed. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

Using a harness is abuse??? All righty them. We have VERY different definitions of abuse.

Using a harness as a punishment is abusive.

 

[EveDallas]

Using a harness as a punishment is abusive.

Nope. It's not. When a child is placing himself in danger by trying to run away, using a non-physical way of curbing the behavior is not abuse.

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

Nope. It's not. When a child is placing himself in danger by trying to run away, using a non-physical way of curbing the behavior is not abuse.

Non physical? How can a parent physically pulling a child on a leash be non physical? May I suggest that you attach yourself to a chair, or even another person, with a leash tomorrow for a couple of hours and then reconsider your argument?
Look back and read how the OP described her 9 year old’s behaviour in the most recent post. Where was the imminent or perceived danger? The child was restrained for ‘doing stupid things’ and acting up.
A number of people have suggested much kinder ways of managing a child’s behaviour and even those who use harnesses have suggested how they can be used in a way that does not involve pulling and tugging on the child.
OP, if your are wasting your precious Disney time reading this, I am not attacking you; I disagree with what you are doing and I hope that when the holiday is over you consider alternative approaches and perhaps seek professional support to help manage the children’s behaviour. I hope that you are all having a wonderful time.

 

[Allie1348]

To clarify the primary purpose of putting a harness on DS9 wasn’t to punish. Clearly the reins are something he isn’t going to like so much so he is more likely to modify his behaviour in the future, but that isn’t the main point. I asked him repeatedly to stay with us but he kept on wandering/marching off without telling anyone in the airport. He was clearly very excited about the holiday and he was acting silly and irresponsible. I wasn’t trying to punish DS9 for this over-excitedness but rather I thought that if he was going to be unpredictable and irresponsible then he needed the leash to keep him safe. He isn’t special needs diagnosed no, but has a poor attention span and is only 9 so isn’t responsible yet.I felt that at the time he needed it to be safe just as DD7 and DS7 need them.

 

[MomOfDisneyPrincess]

Here is a real life example of an impulsive child who was never restrained on a leash. I was at the mall with my parents, brother and sil and two nephews ages 3 and 6. Each nephew holding a parents hand. I see the 6 year old look to the right and and immediately bolt out of his mothers hand as he runs at full speed across the mall. We were calling his name and telling him to stop. He was too far to catch in just seconds and was on his way to give the “Immunization Bee” a big hug. Unfortunately, there was a large pool of water with hot air balloons as the decorations, instead of fountains, between him and the bee. He never even saw the giant pool and ran right off the edge! I swear it was almost as if he hung in mid air for a split second, just like in the cartoons, before he fell into the water with a gigantic splash. My brother was just seconds behind him and plucked him out of the water. He was wet and embarrassed, but not hurt, thankfully. That was 20 years ago and it’s still crystal clear in my mind.

 

[chelynnah]

Non physical? How can a parent physically pulling a child on a leash be non physical? May I suggest that you attach yourself to a chair, or even another person, with a leash tomorrow for a couple of hours and then reconsider your argument?
Look back and read how the OP described her 9 year old’s behaviour in the most recent post. Where was the imminent or perceived danger? The child was restrained for ‘doing stupid things’ and acting up.
A number of people have suggested much kinder ways of managing a child’s behaviour and even those who use harnesses have suggested how they can be used in a way that does not involve pulling and tugging on the child.
OP, if your are wasting your precious Disney time reading this, I am not attacking you; I disagree with what you are doing and I hope that when the holiday is over you consider alternative approaches and perhaps seek professional support to help manage the children’s behaviour. I hope that you are all having a wonderful time.

I don’t see anywhere where she says or implies that she is pulling or tugging the child on the ‘leash’. If the child decides to run (and I don’t see anywhere that says he is) while attached then it is him who is tugging or pulling. He has a distance he needs to be to keep him within a safe area of the family while in the airport or parks. If he’s going to wander or run, or throw a strop, then that’s not an unreasonable request to stay attached. It’s one I would use last for a child of that age, but depending on the adult to children ratio, and the potential issues of needing to focus on the ones with issues it’s not an unreasonable one. If he doesn’t like it he knows it’s not required if he doesn’t walk away.

 

[DisneyOma]

Nope. It's not. When a child is placing himself in danger by trying to run away, using a non-physical way of curbing the behavior is not abuse.

I guess the parent could just spank him, right? (No, I'm not saying this is okay, BTW, just pointing out the absurdity in the above)

From the UK's own Ed site:

"Physical punishment is prohibited in all maintained and full-time independent schools, in children’s homes, in local authority foster homes and Early Years provision."
"Parents have not been explicitly prohibited from smacking their children."
Department for Education 2011

 

[maxiesmom]

He isn’t special needs diagnosed no, but has a poor attention span and is only 9 so isn’t responsible yet.I felt that at the time he needed it to be safe just as DD7 and DS7 need them.

I was with you until this point. Most 9 year olds are not that great at paying attention. Seems like you crossed the line from a leash being a necessity as they are for your younger kids, to using it as a restraint. Just please be careful that using them isn't the easy thing to do, so you grab one as an out.