Holiday blues...vent

[HannaBelle]

I have way more to say, but just wanted to comment that your marriage sounds like a typical EXTROVERT/INTROVERT situation.

Extroverts need people and activities (outward) to feel revived/invigorated and introverts need space, quiet, and downtime to recharge. Probably wasn't as noticeable when you were well-rested and some control in your life. The problem with EXTROVERTS is that they can't really emphathize with the plight of the introvert, although we introverts seem to understand them and acquiesce to their needs. You can't really change your husband's nature and what he needs to survive, but he needs to "get" you. I agree that he needs some more hobbies that don't involve you and allow you some downtime.

I completely agree!

I am the extrovert and my hubby is the introvert. I have to work hard at not filling in every second of our lives. You need to tell your hubby what you need and he needs to be okay doing things without you.

There is a ton of good advice in this thread. You will make it to January. You do need to put yourself first and your momma needs to chill. We have been there and done that with my in laws.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I agree that you are doing FAR to much!
You do need to set limits and boundaries.
I am physically much older than my age. I could never, EVER, begin to come close to what you are doing.
It sounds like people have way too many expectations. They have placed way too much weight on your poor shoulders. And maybe hope to keep getting water from a rock.

OP, I am a bit worried about you.
Your mother, your grown kids, your husband still seem to expect more than you can give.
You have to take care of yourself!!!! I am kind of concerned about your basic well-being.

If you find it hard to sort thru all of this, and to set simple boundaries and become able to say 'no', which I totally understand, then perhaps you can make arrangements to talk to someone to get to a more healthy and realisitic place in your life.

Remember... 'NO.' is a complete sentence.

Your kids still expect you to provide a lot of support.
Your mother wants to say where she is at, with all of those stairs, and her age becoming a very real disability, and have you drive an incredible distance and do everything for her just exactly the way she would want it done herself.

That is not realistic. While this is very common with the elderly, this break with reality is not rational (sane). Of course, that is VERY painful to deal with. And my heart goes out to you!!!! But I see no way around this. I see no way that you can continue to be everything to everybody, and maintain your own well-being. You have to be concerned with YOU.

My MIL went thru lengthy serious health issues, starting with a fall and fracture to her back, followed by a severe and total physical decline and breakdown. We didnt' live as far as you. But, we couldnt give up DH's job, being there for our teenaged kid, etc... to basically take care of her 24/7. After being in two hospitals, She went into Hospice in our community saying, to my DH, that she wished she had another child so that she had 'somebody' to go move in with her (high maintainance property out in nowhere) and take care of her. That can be just awful and heartwrenching. Maybe excruciating.

I hope you will be able to take steps now, rather than later, before things get worse, so that everyone realizes that they have depended on you for everything, and now what do they do, and how do they manage, when you can't be there.

HUGS!!!!!!

 

[Christine]

I know a couple of people like the OP. They are generally pretty industrious people to begin with and it all starts out innocently, but it gets out of hand. What happens is that they basically just "enable" this kind of poor behavior/expectation from the people around them. People like this hate saying no, generally are people pleasers, and often manage it all well, until they don't. OP, as I'm sure you know, your good heart and ability to want to help has created the monsters! Shame on them for taking advantage but, to some degree, it's human nature.

Your mom is actually about 5 years younger than mine and I don't think her attitude is an "age" thing. I think a long time ago, there was an expectation that people would serve their parents until they die. That generation was a much older generation than those at your mother's age of 71. I'd expect that from someone who was about 95 or something.

One of my coworker's mothers lives about 3 hours away, is well into her 80s, and makes the same demands on my coworker. Holiday dinners must be done a certain way, a certain number of pies must be baked, it must happen at her house, and so on. My coworker makes herself sick over this and needs days off work to recover. My coworker's DH was just diagnosed with Alzheimer's (early onset--he's in his 50s) and I think she's starting to finally put her foot down. We shall see. Honestly, I'm just shocked that a parent would behave this way. Again, my mother is 75 years old and I can't even imagine.

 

[gotomu212]

The dog....he can't get on the bed. We, for a while, would lift him on it but then he'd jump down 30 mins later. Because he keeps having a disc issues in his back we stopped putting him on the bed. Don't want his jumping down to hurt his back. He has a dog bed in our bedroom and will lay in that and on the floor, he moves back and forth through the night. But the scratching on the side of bed in the wee hours, I have figured out, is from DH's loud snoring. When DH is away or when I have the dog with me at my mom's the dog sleeps through the night and doesn't get up until I do. Sometimes I will sleep in guest bedroom, with and without the dog, so as to get a straight night sleep. Last night it was 2:30am when the dog scratched the bed. I brought him to the living room, like usual, and laid on sofa and he laid in his dog bed he has out here (we have 3 beds in various rooms). He can jump on sofa after several tries but I now have pillows and blankets blocking the edges so he won't jump. The dog might have dementia too. That may be part of it because sometimes he will get up in middle of night and leave the room for a drink or to just wander the house or even scratch to go outside (he is also nearly blind and I think he has day and night mixed as he sleeps hard during the day). I have posted in the various dog threads about him as it's been an ongoing problem. I keep thinking his days are numbered and then he bounces back. So who knows...maybe he will live to 16.

The part you said about my mom. Yes, she is lonely. She moved from family home to being married to my dad at age 20 and never knew how to be alone. After she grieved my dad, about 18 months later, she was on the hunt for a boyfriend and has had 2 long term and a couple short term. This past few years, which also coincided with me moving away, she has not had a boyfriend. I think she works her little side job for some social aspect as she doesn't need to work and it is a kind of far drive and early start time (like 35 min drive and like 7am start). She has been going to a lot of doctors for her ailments (like a couple a week....it's always something) and we started to wonder if this too was for some attention. I think it's 2 part...one is she is terrified that she'll have a sudden death kinda like my dad and two is she gets attention from people (the doctors and from me). And having arthritis but not being able to take ibuprofin (she is on blood thinner for A Fib) is painful for her. I, myself, am starting to have the joint pains so I can't imagine not being able to take ibuprofin.

And she does say 'if your father was here...' all the time. He was not only handy but he built a 2 story garage, decks, finished basements, put up fences, made gardens....he could do any repairs. He maintained the cars. He dealt with people, like when buying a car or disputing some bill or something. So she's had to figure all this out on her own, as an older person not being used to doing these things. I do commend her for having to do that. She has bought a few cars on her own, hired companies to renovate her house, dealt with insurance issues and the such. She goes on trips with friends as a solo. I took her to HHI this past Aug and she did drive down to me to go. When my dad first died, we lived 2 hours from her and she drove herself to visit and got lost and was anxious and came in 4 hours later all a mess and in tears. For 34 years she had relied on my dad to drive and navigate. Now she can drive 5.5 hours to me (she won't do it often, and maybe only to go to HHI which she LOVES).

She has had to learn to do all these things for herself. And for years I didn't do much, if anything, to help. She even worked full time for many years after my dad died. But her knees went out (she got really heavy), I moved away and she dumped the boyfriend all around the same time (2-3 years ago). This summer I didn't do her yard care...she did it herself (DDs and I may have done it once when up there but I wasn't driving up every week to do it, no way). And when I was just up for Thanksgiving we (my DD) drug her fake tree up from the basement but didn't set it up. I did do the decorating last year (just inside decor, never outdoor). I know she would have liked me to set it up but I wasn't about to. She doesn't really ask me to do these things for her (well, she did at first and then I lost it with her one day and now she won't ask outright). She does a passive aggressive thing, like "you don't have to do this, I am not asking you...BUT...I need X" and if I don't do it she might snark about it later.

It really is all my own fault as I should just shrug and not do it. But I don't mind doing some stuff and helping when I can. I actually would love to help more...but on my time (without being dictated to, like the Thanksgiving meal) and without the horrible drive to get there (nothing I can do about that). And I am having to go up there a lot due to it being the halfway point for DDs and all our other family is up there (we have to go back for various family events like so-and-so's anniversary party and the such...don't HAVE to but we then also visit with our DDs who drive down from college and I can help my mom...and if we have a couple events over a 2 week period I will just stay 2 weeks...like I have to figure out here at the end of the month if I am doing that...when I stay 2 weeks I can run my mom on her errands and take her to her doctor appts which then I can hear what's going on firsthand...and I do end up doing some chores too). When we moved, and DDs went off to college, my mom finished her basement (full bathroom, mini kitchen, room with TV and 2 pull out sofas). So we do have a nice space there. Though I detest the 2 little pull outs.

I just want calmer though and it's not with all this running. And DH pushes all the running because he himself can't sit still. DDs graduate one year from now so there is a light at the end of that tunnel (unless they stay up there, which is prob about 60% likely). Past 24 hours they have been blowing up my phone...fighting with each other and moaning to me about it (they live off campus in a house together with 2 other people). Le sigh!

I think another important question for yourself is do you really want to keep going back for these extended family events or do you feel obligated to go? How about your husband, are these family parties things he enjoys? It’s one thing to go to every extended family party when you live down the street, but when you‘re 5+ hours away it’s typically understood you‘ll show up for weddings and funerals and an annual reunion, but can’t make a 2 week odyssey for every smaller event. You really have to chose to be calmer by dialing way back on all of these commitments. I’d find some time during the holiday to ask your husband what does he want? What does he think are reasonable obligations? Really listen, and see what boundaries and compromises you can set.

I say this kindly but you sound like the proverbial chicken that’s running in circles but not accomplishing what you want. Talk to your husband and think what a happy life would look like for you both and then decide how to get there. If he’s saying you shouldn’t be doing something, think is this more important to me than time with my husband or my husbands feelings (sometimes the answer is yes but you should at least go through the thought process).

 

[Wishing on a star]

I say this kindly ... Talk to your husband and think what a happy life would look like for you both and then decide how to get there. If he’s saying you shouldn’t be doing something, think is this more important to me than time with my husband or my husbands feelings (sometimes the answer is yes but you should at least go through the thought process).

I agree.
Sometimes the husband or wife is on the correct side. (not always, of course)
Sometimes they have valid concerns.
But this is a very important thing to consider, and to give an objective and fair consideration!
(coming from someone who "did too much" with the husband on his families side. the opposite the OP's situation)

Things should be respectful, somewhat fair, and with some compromise.
I am not thinking, from her posts, that the OP is getting the respect or fairness or compromise that she desperately needs.

Ohhhh, another thought. If any discussion or action would sound like the person (the OP) is begging and pleading. Or arguing. Then that is not a stable place to start. That is not the ground to stand on. It should be a simple statement of your reasonable limits and boundaries. (lather, rinse, repeat... as one other well known poster here used to say it)

 

[billlaurie]

Lovin, you are definitely NOT alone. Your situation with your mom, your brother, and your adult kids (fortunately not the hubby) sounds a lot like mine. My mother definitely takes advantage of me compared to my siblings, admittedly so, because I make it too easy for her. My young adult kids take me for granted. My older kids now appreciate me more, so there is eventually light in that tunnel.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Dr. Phil always asks, what is the OP getting our of this? Because in order for it to have continued, she had to be getting something out of it. Figuring that out is probably key to changing the behavior, if it's going to change.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I know a couple of people like the OP. They are generally pretty industrious people to begin with and it all starts out innocently, but it gets out of hand. What happens is that they basically just "enable" this kind of poor behavior/expectation from the people around them. People like this hate saying no, generally are people pleasers, and often manage it all well, until they don't. OP, as I'm sure you know, your good heart and ability to want to help has created the monsters! Shame on them for taking advantage but, to some degree, it's human nature.

Your mom is actually about 5 years younger than mine and I don't think her attitude is an "age" thing. I think a long time ago, there was an expectation that people would serve their parents until they die. That generation was a much older generation than those at your mother's age of 71. I'd expect that from someone who was about 95 or something.

One of my coworker's mothers lives about 3 hours away, is well into her 80s, and makes the same demands on my coworker. Holiday dinners must be done a certain way, a certain number of pies must be baked, it must happen at her house, and so on. My coworker makes herself sick over this and needs days off work to recover. My coworker's DH was just diagnosed with Alzheimer's (early onset--he's in his 50s) and I think she's starting to finally put her foot down. We shall see. Honestly, I'm just shocked that a parent would behave this way. Again, my mother is 75 years old and I can't even imagine.

I was thinking about something along these lines yesterday. Lovin's mother, I'm estimating, was probably born in the late 1940s, and came of age in the 50s and 60s. The June Cleaver (and I Love Lucy, who had to have a separate bed from her husband on TV) era, lol. Of course not everyone is exactly alike, but think of what was going on at that time and who the role models were - none, of course, more important than lovin's Mom's own mother (and where, when and how she grew up, etc.). That is where the key lies for how these women learned how life is "supposed to be" and might also be a key to understanding this situation.

I think that comparing a woman of this era - with some differences and individualties, of course - to a woman raised closer to today, may not be a true comparison. (Not saying you did that, Christine, but I mean, in general.)

 

[Lilsia]

Maybe your brother wanted to be with his children instead of missing things? Maybe his children were more important to him than your grandmother? Maybe he doesn't really care about your grandmother? Some people (for whatever reason) just don't care about certain people in their family. It's obvious your brother didn't want to do things for his grandmother. Did he agree to split her care 50/50 that you expected him to do so?

What was your grandmother's plan for when she could no longer clean, or do bills, or shop?

I would rather die than watch my children leave their families for days on end in order to do my bills and clean my house and do my shopping.

The minute I can no longer do those things, I will go into assisted living. No child or grandchild should have health-altering stress because they have to take care of my basic needs. We plan for so many things, but rarely our elder years. It really needs to be addressed.

(I want to add that your grandmother is lucky to have you as a granddaughter)

I wanted to be with my children instead of helping my grandmother. I don't understand your point. That you should just ignore and neglect your older relatives because you don't want to help out? Everyone goes into old age thinking that they don't want to be a burden. My grandmother said the same thing for years. Then she turned into the same kind of person that the OP and others have talked about. Very manipulative and needy. There has to be something that happens to your brain as you age to turn you that way. She says and does things that later she has no memory of. And my brother probably does not give a crap about our grandmother, but he sure as heck was happy to take all of the money she threw his way. He is her favorite and has always made that clear. He visits her enough to keep the money flowing until I took over her finances. I don't think that a person should have to "agree" to help care for their older relative. If the person needs that help and others are putting in the time, basic human decency should have you helping. If you asked him, HE did all of the work. And like so many other people, my grandmother had no plan on what she was going to do. They did not want to talk about those kind of things.

 

[gotomu212]

I wanted to be with my children instead of helping my grandmother. I don't understand your point. That you should just ignore and neglect your older relatives because you don't want to help out? Everyone goes into old age thinking that they don't want to be a burden. My grandmother said the same thing for years. Then she turned into the same kind of person that the OP and others have talked about. Very manipulative and needy. There has to be something that happens to your brain as you age to turn you that way. She says and does things that later she has no memory of. And my brother probably does not give a crap about our grandmother, but he sure as heck was happy to take all of the money she threw his way. He is her favorite and has always made that clear. He visits her enough to keep the money flowing until I took over her finances. I don't think that a person should have to "agree" to help care for their older relative. If the person needs that help and others are putting in the time, basic human decency should have you helping. If you asked him, HE did all of the work. And like so many other people, my grandmother had no plan on what she was going to do. They did not want to talk about those kind of things.

Well no one gets to spend my money or time for me is a common saying. That means that no one else gets to decide how I spend my limited resources. You can decide on your personal boundaries, but it’s reasonable for others to decide on what they “owe” various family members.

 

[takemethere]

The best advice is to take a step back,re-evaluate, and delegate. Your brother needs to step it up and your DH is in the midst of a mid life crisis. A family meeting is critical. Good Luck!!

 

[lovin'fl]

Obviously moving out of one's current home can be a touchy subject. I know when my grandfather passed away my grandmother was not in a position to really take care of the house herself-both physically and knowledge know-how.

She ended up taking the $ from the sale of that home and bought a 1-story/1-bedroom yet still quite spacious unit of a duplex in a 55+ community. It was a great compromise at that time. She got a home still but things like yard care and a few other things were taken care, not everything of course but that was something that was still the point for her--independence yet assistance. I think that helped eased her into a living facility when it was time for that transition. She was not in full assisted living but a much smaller apartment, cafeteria for food, and more things all just under a roof rather than having to drive out (or get rides) to places other than appointment.

This would be ideal and she does like the Jimmy Buffet neighborhoods. But her taking action is another story. We shall see.

 

[Pink Partridge]

I wanted to be with my children instead of helping my grandmother. I don't understand your point. That you should just ignore and neglect your older relatives because you don't want to help out? Everyone goes into old age thinking that they don't want to be a burden. My grandmother said the same thing for years. Then she turned into the same kind of person that the OP and others have talked about. Very manipulative and needy. There has to be something that happens to your brain as you age to turn you that way. She says and does things that later she has no memory of. And my brother probably does not give a crap about our grandmother, but he sure as heck was happy to take all of the money she threw his way. He is her favorite and has always made that clear. He visits her enough to keep the money flowing until I took over her finances. I don't think that a person should have to "agree" to help care for their older relative. If the person needs that help and others are putting in the time, basic human decency should have you helping. If you asked him, HE did all of the work. And like so many other people, my grandmother had no plan on what she was going to do. They did not want to talk about those kind of things.

My point is, some people don't want to clean and do yard work or bills or shop for elderly family members. Your brother is one of those people. You can't make him help if he doesn't want to.

But I would remind him daily what scum he is to take money from his Grandmother while not assisting her. That's a whole other level of lower than dirt.

 

[Lilsia]

Well no one gets to spend my money or time for me is a common saying. That means that no one else gets to decide how I spend my limited resources. You can decide on your personal boundaries, but it’s reasonable for others to decide on what they “owe” various family members.

That is true, but how can a person just let their grandmother be neglected? If she needs the care, how can I not give it to her. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect that others do their share. Why are people who do the right thing the "suckers" while the men that refuse to help the "smart ones". How is neglecting an elder, that has been nothing but nice to you, even something that is OK to anyone with a decent bone in their body? Those of us who do the caring should just stop because others refuse to help? How can anyone say "sorry grandma, I can't get your medicine for you this month because I am putting a limit on my boundaries because I get no help". Do you see what I am saying?

 

[lovin'fl]

As far as the running up to all the family events. I don't want to but DH pushes it, at least for all his family stuff. It's all part of his need to be going and doing all the time (he pushes to drive up there but then doesn't think I need to be doing chores, necessarily...just that we need to go visit the family, a lot). And he is actually an introvert like me but has this need to do stuff all the time (like an introvert with ADHD). I do tell him to go ahead without me (he's at a basketball game with a coworker tonight). So we went to niece's Quinceanera (that was terrible timing for us and I would have said no as we really had to move a lot of pieces around and miss out on some other important stuff to go) and now we have an invite to her confirmation party, also bad timing. DH will push to go and I say no. He will also not be too happy that I won't go pick up DDs for break in 2 weeks or drive them back in Jan to get flight to FL for marathon. He and his folks are on me about it not being 'safe' for them to drive all the way here and back. Shoot, they were on us about getting them back up earlier than planned after Thanksgiving because 'weather' was coming in. And my mom was bent because they left early and weren't around for a lighted boat parade we planned to watch. No winning!

 

[Lilsia]

My point is, some people don't want to clean and do yard work or bills or shop for elderly family members. Your brother is one of those people. You can't make him help if he doesn't want to.

But I would remind him daily what scum he is to take money from his Grandmother while not assisting her. That's a whole other level of lower than dirt.

Yep, he is lower then dirt. But according to him, he is her savior. It is sickening.

 

[lovin'fl]

That is true, but how can a person just let their grandmother be neglected? If she needs the care, how can I not give it to her. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect that others do their share. Why are people who do the right thing the "suckers" while the men that refuse to help the "smart ones". How is neglecting an elder, that has been nothing but nice to you, even something that is OK to anyone with a decent bone in their body? Those of us who do the caring should just stop because others refuse to help? How can anyone say "sorry grandma, I can't get your medicine for you this month because I am putting a limit on my boundaries because I get no help". Do you see what I am saying?

This. It is so difficult and frustrating.

 

[Lilsia]

As far as the running up to all the family events. I don't want to but DH pushes it, at least for all his family stuff. It's all part of his need to be going and doing all the time (he pushes to drive up there but then doesn't think I need to be doing chores, necessarily...just that we need to go visit the family, a lot). And he is actually an introvert like me but has this need to do stuff all the time (like an introvert with ADHD). I do tell him to go ahead without me (he's at a basketball game with a coworker tonight). So we went to niece's Quinceanera (that was terrible timing for us and I would have said no as we really had to move a lot of pieces around and miss out on some other important stuff to go) and now we have an invite to her confirmation party, also bad timing. DH will push to go and I say no. He will also not be too happy that I won't go pick up DDs for break in 2 weeks or drive them back in Jan to get flight to FL for marathon. He and his folks are on me about it not being 'safe' for them to drive all the way here and back. Shoot, they were on us about getting them back up earlier than planned after Thanksgiving because 'weather' was coming in. And my mom was bent because they left early and weren't around for a lighted boat parade we planned to watch. No winning!

Sometimes it seems like no matter what you do, it is the wrong thing for someone else. I hope that you can talk to your husband and let him know that he needs to more supportive of you. I feel for you and completely understand the pressure of being always in the middle. I think society has always put more pressure on woman to be everything for everyone and the caregiver. It is not right. You might just need to decide how much you are willing to do from now on and stick to it. Someone will always be mad, you can't help that. But you also need to feel that you put yourself first from time to time or you start to feel angry and bitter. I have been there also. Decide how much you are going to do, write it down and have a meeting with your husband, brother, and mom and let them know what you are willing to do from now on.

 

[VandVsmama]

As far as the running up to all the family events. I don't want to but DH pushes it, at least for all his family stuff. It's all part of his need to be going and doing all the time (he pushes to drive up there but then doesn't think I need to be doing chores, necessarily...just that we need to go visit the family, a lot). And he is actually an introvert like me but has this need to do stuff all the time (like an introvert with ADHD). I do tell him to go ahead without me (he's at a basketball game with a coworker tonight). So we went to niece's Quinceanera (that was terrible timing for us and I would have said no as we really had to move a lot of pieces around and miss out on some other important stuff to go) and now we have an invite to her confirmation party, also bad timing. DH will push to go and I say no. He will also not be too happy that I won't go pick up DDs for break in 2 weeks or drive them back in Jan to get flight to FL for marathon. He and his folks are on me about it not being 'safe' for them to drive all the way here and back. Shoot, they were on us about getting them back up earlier than planned after Thanksgiving because 'weather' was coming in. And my mom was bent because they left early and weren't around for a lighted boat parade we planned to watch. No winning!

so you know what? Your DH and HIS parents can drive your kids back to college. Because YOU are not doing it. Just say no. It gets easier the more you do it. The world will not stop turning on its axis.

 

[Searc]

I was thinking about something along these lines yesterday. Lovin's mother, I'm estimating, was probably born in the late 1940s, and came of age in the 50s and 60s. The June Cleaver (and I Love Lucy, who had to have a separate bed from her husband on TV) era, lol. Of course not everyone is exactly alike, but think of what was going on at that time and who the role models were - none, of course, more important than lovin's Mom's own mother (and where, when and how she grew up, etc.). That is where the key lies for how these women learned how life is "supposed to be" and might also be a key to understanding this situation.

I think that comparing a woman of this era - with some differences and individualties, of course - to a woman raised closer to today, may not be a true comparison. (Not saying you did that, Christine, but I mean, in general.)

My mother is 71, born in 1948 and thank god is nothing like OP's mom.