Home Depot and Menards lawsuit

[justussix]

http://www.freep.com/story/money/nat...uit/415874001/

Home Depot and Menards are being sued because a "4 x 4" actually measure 3.5" x 3.5" and not 4" x 4"; which is within industry standards, and a 2 x 4 is actually 1.5" x 3.5". Suing for $5 million I think.

Unbelievable. This is where I wish common sense would prevail and a case like this could just be laughed out of court by the judge. Mind you, the standard actual measurements are based on industry standards set by the U.S. Government (or rather an agency thereof).

 

[Gumbo4x4]

A finished 2X4 should measure 1 5/8 X 3 5/8 IIRC. Blueprints account for this. It's only a true 2X4 when rough cut.

 

[RedAngie]

I can barely distinguish between a screw and a nail, yet even <<I>> know about nominal dimensions of lumber, and I've know it for decades.

Even if someone is unaware of this, who's anal enough to actually measure the width of lumber and complain, let alone file a lawsuit about it?

Sounds like a publicity hungry ambulance chasing law firm who promised riches to some dim-witted clients in exchange for large retainers.

 

[wilkeliza]

I can barely distinguish between a screw and a nail, yet even <<I>> know about nominal dimensions of lumber, and I've know it for decades.

Even if someone is unaware of this, who's anal enough to actually measure the width of lumber and complain, let alone file a lawsuit about it?

Sounds like a publicity hungry ambulance chasing law firm who promised riches to some dim-witted clients in exchange for large retainers.

Would be the same type of person who is suing Starbucks for ice ventis not actually have 24 ounces of liquid in them. People are abusing the false advertisement statutes in order to make bank.

 

[fly girl]

Oh our sue happy country.

This is reminding me of the Subway footlong sub lawsuit. (Which resulted in a small settlement because if the bread was shorter, the majority of the time it was less than 1/4".) And now I have that $5 footlong jingle in my head.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

A 4x4 has been 3&1/2 x 3&1/2 and a 2x4 has been 1&1/2 x 3&1/2 for decades. Their can be a minimal difference with treated vs non treated, but Gumbos right about the only true 2x4s are rough cut, generally bought directly from a sawmill.

 

[Hikergirl]

However, Turin and his clients dispute that the differences between nominal descriptions and actual dimensions are common knowledge.

“It’s difficult to say that for a reasonable consumer, when they walk into a store and they see a label that says four-by-four, that that’s simply — quote unquote — a trade name,” Turin said in an interview.

Maybe those people should stay away from construction material then and let the professionals handle it.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

However, Turin and his clients dispute that the differences between nominal descriptions and actual dimensions are common knowledge.

“It’s difficult to say that for a reasonable consumer, when they walk into a store and they see a label that says four-by-four, that that’s simply — quote unquote — a trade name,” Turin said in an interview.

Maybe those people should stay away from construction material then and let the professionals handle it.

I agree, if someone doesn't understand some common materials. I really don't want to walk out onto a balcony they built.

 

[Tozzie]

It is because our country is she happy the system needs to be fixed but it has been going on for so long I don't know if it can be.

When a criminal can break into your house, gets bitten by your dog and then sue you and win money from a jury. You allowed the dog to be ther you never invited the burglar. This has happened many times and is a disgrace

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I notice our Home Depot got some new tags. They say 2 by 4 or 4 by 4 or whatever and have in parenthesis the finished dimensions.

 

[EMAW_KSU]

Lowe's lost a lawsuit 2 or 3 years ago on the size of a 2 X 4 that was started by California district attorneys

 

[tvguy]

A 4x4 has been 3&1/2 x 3&1/2 and a 2x4 has been 1&1/2 x 3&1/2 for decades. Their can be a minimal difference with treated vs non treated, but Gumbos right about the only true 2x4s are rough cut, generally bought directly from a sawmill.

Exactly.
My dad was a lumber salesman, and passed away 50 years ago. When my mom passed away 4 years ago, I found 150 4 foot long finished sample douglas fir 2x4 boards in the rafters of the garage. I called a friend who does wood working and asked if he wanted them. He came and got them and was shocked that they were actually 2 x 4, and he said he hadn't seen such high quality lumber in decades.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well it's not as if I really truly honestly thought about finished product vs initial cut product. However that being said we have built several things in our house (our master closet shelving system, a large desk, a mail sorter, a note pad/key holder, a 9 cube storage unit) with more things we want to build. My husband generally has taken it upon his engineering self to figure out all the dimensions and I know for sure he's always thought about what the finished product dimensions would be.

For the extreme novice in woodworking it may not be common knowledge.....that being said it's probably a good idea to look up/figure out what your finished product will measure and I feel like the vast majority of people would find out either by asking customer service reps or by reading books or looking up on the internet the difference between finished product vs initial cut product.

I do know that Home Depot does have help on their website for information on their product such as what type of wood, etc.

I did find this on their website:


Scroll down and you find this:



I agree that I think people are looking nowadays for reasons to find fault in advertising or what information stores/companiest provide and to me rarely are the faults people find in my opinion actual false advertisements. In this case it's an industry standard thing going on. I'm really not certain why all places that sell lumber would need to list their actual sizes for every single one of their products in order to not confuse the consumer. To me this is one of those it's "on the consumer's responsibility".

 

[manning]

Lowe's lost a lawsuit 2 or 3 years ago on the size of a 2 X 4 that was started by California district attorneys

Are you surprised? getting to the point you will be sued for looking at someone wrong!

 

[Klayfish]

What do you call 50 lawyers at the bottom of a lake? Oh never mind....

Believe me, working in insurance, I can tell you that plaintiff lawyers will sue anyone for anything...then those same clients they take will complain about their insurance rates.

 

[AppleDumpling]

My understanding is that the wood is originally cut as 2" by 4" but that it shrinks down during the lumber production process. I get that. It's like a McDonald's quarter pounder, where 1/4 lb is the pre-cooked weight.

Now I would not be suing over it, but I do think it's somewhat deceptive. Apparently, historically, it USED TO be 2" x 4", but over time, the standards changed. Still seems the industry is shortchanging the consumer. To use another food analogy, think of ice cream, which used to be sold in a standard half gallon container, but is now less than a half gallon by several ounces (though I'm sure some people don't even realize it). To me, that's just a way for them to raise the price without raising the price, kwim?

So why can't the lumber industry start with a larger piece to account for the shrinkage and make the finished product's measurements equal to what it is called?

 

[Klayfish]

Well, I just bought my kids a bag of Lays chips. The bag claims it contains 9oz of chips. Well, I took out each and ever chip and measured it, and it was only 8.79oz.

I plan to retire on the settlement money I will be getting, and my children will never have to work. Their emotional distress when they realized they were robbed will scar them forever.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My understanding is that the wood is originally cut as 2" by 4" but that it shrinks down during the lumber production process. I get this. It's like a McDonald's quarter pounder, where 1/4 lb is the pre-cooked weight.

Now I would not be suing over it, but I do think it's somewhat deceptive. Apparently, historically, it USED TO be 2" x 4", but over time, the standards changed. Still seems the industry is shortchanging the consumer. To use another food analogy, think of ice cream, which used to be sold in a standard half gallon container, but is now less than a half gallon (and I'm sure some people don't even realize it). To me, that's just a way for them to raise the price without raising the price, kwim?

So why can't the lumber industry start with a larger piece to account for the shrinkage and make the finished product's measurements equal to what it is called?

I get your way of thinking but with the examples you've used I feel like an overall would be needed for a ton of industries and it would be moreso regulations that would give you what you're looking for.

Just look at what time of the year it is and sunscreen. With the recent consumer reports reflecting that many many sunscreens fail at actually performing at the SPF level they state they are and to me it's more egregious to state you have an SPF of 30 but perform at 10-19 SPF or SPF 50 but it perform nearly half that in real life compared to lumber not being a 2X4 when you take the piece home with you.

Not only that but you are not going to find companies listing what their SPF rating truly is compared to what they list like you will with lumber (i.e. see my screenshot from earlier comment).

 

[Klayfish]

Oh great, now we're talking shrinkage...I'm outta here...

 

[Hikergirl]

My understanding is that the wood is originally cut as 2" by 4" but that it shrinks down during the lumber production process. I get that. It's like a McDonald's quarter pounder, where 1/4 lb is the pre-cooked weight.

Now I would not be suing over it, but I do think it's somewhat deceptive. Apparently, historically, it USED TO be 2" x 4", but over time, the standards changed. Still seems the industry is shortchanging the consumer. To use another food analogy, think of ice cream, which used to be sold in a standard half gallon container, but is now less than a half gallon by several ounces (though I'm sure some people don't even realize it). To me, that's just a way for them to raise the price without raising the price, kwim?

So why can't the lumber industry start with a larger piece to account for the shrinkage and make the finished product's measurements equal to what it is called?

Dh and I just bought a ton of wood, 4x4s, 2x4s, and other stuff to build a shed. All we care about is that those pieces do their job. We do not feel "shortchanged" because they shrink 1/2 inch. Maybe if we were paying by weight it would be different, but we are paying by piece. Its not going to matter if it is called a 4x4 or a 3 1/2x 3 1/2, it will do the exact same job.
Anyone who knows anything about construction knows that when the boards are kiln dried there will be shrinkage.
The people suing over this probably have never built anything or plan to build anything on their own. They are just looking for a payday.