I think Pete was sort of missing the point on AP cancellations

[disneysteve]

On this week's show, Pete had a bit of a rant about how many people have cancelled their APs and how he thinks Disney should be doing more to draw in the AP holders.

I did cancel my AP as a result of COVID. That had absolutely nothing to do with anything Disney is doing and there is absolutely nothing Disney could do differently that would change my decision. THERE'S A GLOBAL PANDEMIC HAPPENING. We are not going on vacation. We are not getting on a plane. We are not driving 1,000 miles to Florida. We are not going into a theme park. We stay at home. I go to the supermarket. We pick up take out once a week or so. We do some curbside pickup from Target or Walmart. My wife and I have done outside dining a few times but that's the most "public" thing we've done. Going to a theme park is the last thing on our list right now and probably won't be back on our list for a long time.

Pete seemed to be putting a lot of the blame on Disney. I don't think that's accurate at all. If Disney called and said I could get a free hotel, free food, and free air fare, I still wouldn't be going right now so I have zero use for an AP.

Besides, my job has a travel ban that currently includes 35 states, I think. If we travel to any of those places, we have to quarantine for 14 days before we can return to work. Technically, I'm exempt as a doctor, but I'm still supposed to report that travel to Infection Control and they could make me quarantine.

So I think all of the AP cancellations make perfect sense. Honestly, I'm surprised the number of cancellations in the survey wasn't far higher.

 

[jcb]

WDW lost me as AP with their late 2019 price (my 2020 AP year) hike. Maybe I'll renew in the future.

I took Pete's comments as more along the lines of what WDW needs to do to woo back the folks who cancelled but I was kind of half-listening to that discussion because I didn't renew AP for 2020.

 

[NYDisGuy]

His comments were more geared toward the dismissive attitude of the CEO. Saying AP cancellations are Ebb and Flow and the ones being cancelled will just be replaced by someone else. That is something I can't stand about this company and has been a complaint for years, Disney does not show the same loyalty to their guests that the guests show for them. They constantly take and cut and treat everyone like a number. His overall point was a good one, maybe Disney will actually feel the burn of these cancellations and start offering more loyalty rewards instead of casting the hardcores away in the hopes that the casuals will eventually return to replace them.

 

[hertamaniac]

We have returned to WDW, but only for dining at DS. It was an early lunch on a weekday so I played the low crowd card and felt comfortable. That being said, we did cancel our AP's as locals. It has nothing to do with the protocols/procedures that WDW has implemented, but a deep concern for our personal safety. The risk v. reward scale is weighted heavily on the risk side.

To us, we've been to WDW so many times that there isn't anything new that warrants a health risk/draw for us. If we haven't been to WDW for years and there were so many new experiences, it would garner more interest, but not in the name of safety. We can recover from a WDW temporary divorce, but we couldn't recover if one of us got sick because of impatience.

So we're in the AP plane on a holding pattern for at least another year or two.

 

[disneysteve]

I took Pete's comments as more along the lines of what WDW needs to do to woo back the folks who cancelled

That's what I thought, hence my post. Disney can't do anything to woo me back because the reason I cancelled has nothing to do with Disney. If they sent me a free AP I still wouldn't go right now.

His comments were more geared toward the dismissive attitude of the CEO. Saying AP cancellations are Ebb and Flow and the ones being cancelled will just be replaced by someone else.

I agree with that. Disney certainly shouldn't be dismissive of the AP holders, but perhaps Disney realizes that most of those cancellations are beyond their control. They're due to outside issues that Disney simply can't fix. Now once COVID is behind us, whenever that is, it will be interesting to see what, if anything, Disney does to draw back folks like me.

 

[disneysteve]

we did cancel our AP's as locals. It has nothing to do with the protocols/procedures that WDW has implemented, but a deep concern for our personal safety. The risk v. reward scale is weighted heavily on the risk side.

Exactly my point.

 

[disneyland_is_magic]

Steve, I always seem to agree with you.

I think Pete was annoyed at Chapek’s dismissive take on APs and that was valid, because Chapek was dismissive.

That said, there are A LOT of fans who are financially okay. Really those with APs are probably far more financially stable then most folks if their budget allows for luxury items like an AP. A huge chunk of the population remains financially okay, and they aren’t going.
Could I go? Yes. Would I go? No.

There was an article on the Dis yesterday that made me chuckle. It suggested those not going are just poor and jealous.

And I was like no... I’m not going because there is a pandemic. Its called doing our part yo.

 

[hertamaniac]

There was an article on the Dis yesterday that made me chuckle. It suggested those not going are just poor and jealous.

And I was like no... I’m not going because there is a pandemic.

I didn't read that article, but that certainly could apply to some guests. But there are others (like us) where we paid in full for our AP's and our decision to cancel has nothing to do with our finances.

 

[disneysteve]

I think Pete was annoyed at Chapek’s dismissive take on APs and that was valid, because Chapek was dismissive.

And that's 100% valid. I agree with him on that.

That said, there are A LOT of fans who are financially okay.

True, but finances are certainly a part of it too. Tens of millions of people have lost their jobs. I have no doubt that some AP holders fall into that group, so they may have cancelled because it was the responsible thing to do, not because they necessarily wanted to.

And I was like no... I’m not going because there is a pandemic. Its called doing our part yo.

Exactly. It's not because of anything Disney did or said. It's because of what is happening in the world right now.

 

[DLgal]

I think the main point was that Disney needs to really be careful with what they say about APs, because in the near term, WDW and DL are going to NEED local (not out of state, per se) AP holders to prop them up.

This is basically the WORST time to alienate your most loyal base.

As a local Disneyland AP, I am DYING to visit and will be back at the parks as soon as they reopen. I have no fears about being in an outdoor theme park at this point. Not everyone is afraid to visit the parks and many people don't have to travel to get there.

 

[rteetz]

I certainly think there are a lot of factors at play. The pandemic being first and foremost. However like many have mentioned Disney isn’t so much catering to the AP right now when really that’s what they should be doing.

Disney has commented that they are seeing out of state travelers and I’m sure much of that is due to DVC. However the locals need to be a big base right now as that’s what is getting you through this. Both Universal and SeaWorld have added perks to their passholders. Disney did like two weeks of a better discount. That discount probably should be around for a while not just a few weeks.

I also am under the impression that Disney is about to restructure their APs. Josh D’Amaro recently commented that the park reservation system is here to stay long term not just covid. With that I think Disney will have to look at how the AP fits in that. Look at the Disneyland flex pass for example.

 

[DLgal]

I also am under the impression that Disney is about to restructure their APs. Josh D’Amaro recently commented that the park reservation system is here to stay long term not just covid. With that I think Disney will have to look at how the AP fits in that. Look at the Disneyland flex pass for example.

I think if the reservation system is here to stay, there really can only be one type of AP, right? I mean, unless higher tiers of AP offer more reservation opportunities or other perks. It will be interesting to see how they structure the AP program going forward.

I also agree with you that Disney really is slow on the uptake with responding with additional perks when other parks do it almost immediately.

 

[RamblingMad]

His comments were more geared toward the dismissive attitude of the CEO. Saying AP cancellations are Ebb and Flow and the ones being cancelled will just be replaced by someone else. That is something I can't stand about this company and has been a complaint for years, Disney does not show the same loyalty to their guests that the guests show for them. They constantly take and cut and treat everyone like a number. His overall point was a good one, maybe Disney will actually feel the burn of these cancellations and start offering more loyalty rewards instead of casting the hardcores away in the hopes that the casuals will eventually return to replace them.

Disney has great branding. There are folks that go to Disney every year that don’t know what to do with themselves when it closed. Until this brand loyalty changes, Disney can get away with a lot

 

[disneysteve]

Josh D’Amaro recently commented that the park reservation system is here to stay long term not just covid.

This could be the thing that ends our Disney World affinity for good. If we have to decide weeks or months (or even days) in advance which park we will visit each day, that would pretty much ruin Disney World as a vacation option for us.

And what about park hopping? Does this mean it won't return? How will they handle locals? If somebody decides to pop in after work, would that only be possible if they could get a last minute reservation?

I certainly hope this isn't true.

 

[rteetz]

This could be the thing that ends our Disney World affinity for good. If we have to decide weeks or months (or even days) in advance which park we will visit each day, that would pretty much ruin Disney World as a vacation option for us.

And what about park hopping? Does this mean it won't return? How will they handle locals? If somebody decides to pop in after work, would that only be possible if they could get a last minute reservation?

I certainly hope this isn't true.

I think you’re reading too much into it. When park capacity is able to get to more normal levels most days you won’t have a problem getting into the parks. Your days like Christmas and New Years will always continue to be a struggle tho.

Disney loves data. This system gives them new data. This will also help them continue to spread guests out and show where extra CMs may be needed. I do think park hopping returns. Again that will be dependent on capacity.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I think Pete was annoyed at Chapek’s dismissive take on APs and that was valid, because Chapek was dismissive.

One thing to keep in mind is who Chapek was speaking to - it was on an earnings call and to analysts and investors

He said that day guests/week long vacationers spend more per day than passholders. Now, passholders might not want to hear it but what Chapek said is 100% true

Doesn't mean passholders aren't values at all but especially in times of limited park capacity, getting non passholders to take one of the "spots" is worth a lot more to the park than a passholder visiting.

There are definitely things they could do to woo back passholders (including some very simple things like opening up more reservations slots day of) - the fact they aren't to me says they don't really want a ton of passholders in the park as the slight added revenue bump wouldn't offset any increase in expenses

 

[TheMaxRebo]

This could be the thing that ends our Disney World affinity for good. If we have to decide weeks or months (or even days) in advance which park we will visit each day, that would pretty much ruin Disney World as a vacation option for us.

And what about park hopping? Does this mean it won't return? How will they handle locals? If somebody decides to pop in after work, would that only be possible if they could get a last minute reservation?

I certainly hope this isn't true.

I think we need to see how it is implemented and how it works when things are a bit back to "normal". Also what happens to FPs going forward etc.

I think the vast majority of time it won't be a challenge to get a reservation, even day of (maybe some parks harder to get than others) but we shall have to see over time

Going to be a bit of evolution on her the next few years - things that at first might seems challenge to deal with but I suspect, over time will become 2nd nature

 

[disneysteve]

I think you’re reading too much into it. When park capacity is able to get to more normal levels most days you won’t have a problem getting into the parks.

I hope I'm over-reacting to that comment. I guess I don't see why they would continue the reservation system once things are back to normal. And once park hopping is restored, that would be even more complicated.

 

[rteetz]

I hope I'm over-reacting to that comment. I guess I don't see why they would continue the reservation system once things are back to normal. And once park hopping is restored, that would be even more complicated.

Not if there is no longer FP+ and reliance on booking dining 180 days out. I think we are going to see a lot of changes come out of this that are here to stay.

 

[fla4fun]

I kind of took the comments to mean that Disney shouldn’t be making decisions that specifically impact pass holders in a negative way because they need those pass holders to stay in business right now. Obviously, resort guests (regardless of ticket type) should be first priority because they are paying more than any other group for the privilege. I am including DVC members in that group. But when you weigh one day, off property, ticket holders against passholders, I think passholders should be given the edge, and it’s not always appearing that way. It would take so little to feel appreciated. Things like allowing the standard AP Merch discount on shopdisney.com all the time would go a long way towards making people with passes feel like they matter. In a situation like this, where Disney isn’t getting as many once in a lifetime visitors, they need to maintain and nurture the relationship with their passholders.

Obviously, no one knows what percentage of passholders cancelled for health reasons, what percentage cancelled for financial reasons, and what percentage just cancelled for no particular reason. I won’t judge anyone who cancelled, because it’s the right choice for them, just as keeping mine is the right choice for me. But it is telling that Disney isn’t doing anything to make the remaining passholders feel inclined to stick around. I only know a few passholders personally, but if they cancel their passes, they have no interest in using a different ticket type to get in. If they want to go, they are keeping the pass. If they cancelled, they just aren’t going period. So putting on a resident promotion isn’t getting those former pass holders in the park. They are pretty much gone for good, or at least, for several years or longer.