Is Universal's Epic Universe a Shot Across the Bow or A Body Blow to Disney

As far as a comparison between the two, with the new park opening it would likely turn into a "Universal Only" type of vacation. the way it is now, you can plan a Disney vacation and add two days of universal. You cant really do that with Disney as the waits make MK a 2 day park. Also pair that with the ticket specials universal runs (Buy one get one, buy 2 get two, or even this past spring, buy two days get 3 days free). That alone will keep people out of Disney unless they have small children.
We've always given 2 days for MK.

I don't think it will turn a person who goes to both into just a Universal person by virtue of a 3rd theme park (Volcano Bay is still a water theme park to me lol) to explore.

If you stop going to WDW entirely it's likely for a myriad of reasons.

The type of person you're speaking of when you say add two days of Universal is unlikely to be the person to just drop WDW like it's a hot potato especially just for the news of a new theme park for Universal. Universal is NOT an add on to WDW for us. It's as part of the vacation just as much as WDW is. When you phrase it like add days for Universal you're more speaking to the people whose main reason to coming to Orlando is WDW and Universal is more of an afterthought. Those types of people it's hard to break that mentality until they reach a breaking point (which from people's comments on the Boards it's usually costs and overall experience).
 
With the introduction of MaxPass you really don't. With MaxPass you a) get to choose what time your FP will be from the choices--without MP you only get the option of what the next distribution time is b) get the availability of FPs that are cancelled or modified by other guests who have purchased MP--without MP you don't have this availability.

Now pre-planning aspect is lower at DLR but MP created a similar-enough system where there are advantages now built in with FPs and unlike WDW (at the moment) those advantages come at a cost.

Everyone has the chance to buy Maxpass (it isn't super pricy), so I still consider it equal. You still have to be there. I'm all good with that. I don't like WDW system and I never will. Nothing can convince me it makes the parks better. I honestly prefer the old days before Fastpass where it truly was for everyone to enjoy equally - but that is never coming back, so I'll take Disneyland's system any day.

WDW's system is NO advantage to anyone that isn't staying on their property (which I have zero desire to do), and they do come at a cost (staying at their property).
 
Everyone has the chance to buy Maxpass (it isn't super pricy), so I still consider it equal. You still have to be there. I'm all good with that. I don't like WDW system and I never will. Nothing can convince me it makes the parks better. I honestly prefer the old days before Fastpass where it truly was for everyone to enjoy equally - but that is never coming back, so I'll take Disneyland's system any day.

WDW's system is NO advantage to anyone that isn't staying on their property (which I have zero desire to do), and they do come at a cost (staying at their property).
Well then you're not really talking about equality then. At WDW everyone has the chance to stay onsite. You may not be able to afford to, just like you may not be able to afford to purchase MP.

And while it may not sound pricey it cost us $90 for 3 days just for my husband and I. That's still something and can be cost prohibitive for people.

No matter what way you slice it there is now an advantage in DLR with respects to FP. The advantage is different than at WDW but none the less it's still not truly equal when you compare a guest who doesn't purchase MP and a guest who does.

Break it down in just a few ways--
~WDW gives advantage to onsite guests of 60days vs 30 days. DLR gives advantage to MP purchasers with what I've already mentioned.
~At WDW you can use your phone regardless, at DLR you can only use your phone for FP if you've purchased MP.
~At WDW because you can use your phone regardless you can pick up FPs that have been cancelled or modified by other guests at no additional costs, you can change your own time whenever you want to as well (so long as other times are available). At DLR you cannot do this unless you purchase MP.
~At least at DLR you can pre-pay and add (for a low amount really when you consider how many days its good for) MP onto an AP (I don't remember if it's a certain level and above or not). At WDW APs do not get a FP advantage of 60 days unless they also stay onsite (otherwise it's a 30days just like non-onsite guests) and they are restricted to how many days of FPs they have pre-planned (I don't remember if DLR APs have a resriction or not).

And so on. There is no equal footing now in either Resort. Each Resort operates because they are different theme parks. To your point a person in WDW may feel more disadvantaged at WDW in comparison to the person in DLR depending on how their mileage may vary.
 
Well then you're not really talking about equality then. At WDW everyone has the chance to stay onsite. You may not be able to afford to, just like you may not be able to afford to purchase MP.

And while it may not sound pricey it cost us $90 for 3 days just for my husband and I. That's still something and can be cost prohibitive for people.

No matter what way you slice it there is now an advantage in DLR with respects to FP. The advantage is different than at WDW but none the less it's still not truly equal when you compare a guest who doesn't purchase MP and a guest who does.

Break it down in just a few ways--
~WDW gives advantage to onsite guests of 60days vs 30 days. DLR gives advantage to MP purchasers with what I've already mentioned.
~At WDW you can use your phone regardless, at DLR you can only use your phone for FP if you've purchased MP.
~At WDW because you can use your phone regardless you can pick up FPs that have been cancelled or modified by other guests at no additional costs, you can change your own time whenever you want to as well (so long as other times are available). At DLR you cannot do this unless you purchase MP.
~At least at DLR you can pre-pay and add (for a low amount really when you consider how many days its good for) MP onto an AP (I don't remember if it's a certain level and above or not). At WDW APs do not get a FP advantage of 60 days unless they also stay onsite (otherwise it's a 30days just like non-onsite guests) and they are restricted to how many days of FPs they have pre-planned (I don't remember if DLR APs have a resriction or not).

And so on. There is no equal footing now in either Resort. Each Resort operates because they are different theme parks. To your point a person in WDW may feel more disadvantaged at WDW in comparison to the person in DLR depending on how their mileage may vary.

We will just have to disagree on the level of "unfairness" of each system. I find the Disneyland system FAR more fair - and I don't have to plan everything way ahead. Spending a small amount on maxpass is not the same to me as having to stay on site - which I don't want to do. I rent a 4 bed/3 bath villa with private pool in back yard near the parks for $100/night. Two families can easily stay in it. The additional cost to stay on site would be considerably more per person than spending a few bucks on maxpass, plus we have our own kitchen, etc.

Nobody can convince me that WDW's system is anywhere near as good for me - a paying park guest who doesn't happen to want to stay on site. I'm not buying it. I actually am going in November and will be doing a couple of the Christmas Parties. Other than that I'm thinking of sticking to Universal.
 


We will just have to disagree on the level of "unfairness" of each system. I find the Disneyland system FAR more fair - and I don't have to plan everything way ahead. Spending a small amount on maxpass is not the same to me as having to stay on site - which I don't want to do. I rent a 4 bed/3 bath villa with private pool in back yard near the parks for $100/night. Two families can easily stay in it. The additional cost to stay on site would be considerably more per person than spending a few bucks on maxpass, plus we have our own kitchen, etc.

Nobody can convince me that WDW's system is anywhere near as good for me - a paying park guest who doesn't happen to want to stay on site. I'm not buying it. I actually am going in November and will be doing a couple of the Christmas Parties. Other than that I'm thinking of sticking to Universal.
I'm not trying to convince you about a level of unfairness..goodness you were saying that at DLR you were on equal footing..you really aren't and I gave reasons why you aren't anymore. How someone sees the differences between the advantages is purely a personal matter. It doesn't negate that with the introduction of MP there are advantages to FP that were not there before. Your preference may still be for DLR even with those advantages listed--that aspect was never a point to my comment.
 
WDW's system is NO advantage to anyone that isn't staying on their property (which I have zero desire to do), and they do come at a cost (staying at their property).

Yeah, people staying on property will soon be going in the direction of just the rich, those that save enough to spurge, or go into debt. The first breaking points with some frequent Disney guests was the pricing for parking while on property. Which Universal has always has, but Disney didn't have and decided to add it on. What makes insult to injury is the fact that when it was then reported the pricing was based on what kind of tier hotel you're staying at. Depending on the hotel, you could be paying for slightly less than a normal day parking at the parks, or essentially the same price for parking at the parks.

It would be interesting to know if resort guests can park in the regular park parking lots without being charged, because if they would be charged, that's just another incentive to use the Disney transportation which might be the reason for doing this. Which at this point I personally only use for very selective resorts, or times, because even when I stay on property (which the past couple of years has been with a group of people each time to lessen cost) I almost always drive myself and friends / family.
 
We've always given 2 days for MK.

I don't think it will turn a person who goes to both into just a Universal person by virtue of a 3rd theme park (Volcano Bay is still a water theme park to me lol) to explore.

If you stop going to WDW entirely it's likely for a myriad of reasons.

The type of person you're speaking of when you say add two days of Universal is unlikely to be the person to just drop WDW like it's a hot potato especially just for the news of a new theme park for Universal. Universal is NOT an add on to WDW for us. It's as part of the vacation just as much as WDW is. When you phrase it like add days for Universal you're more speaking to the people whose main reason to coming to Orlando is WDW and Universal is more of an afterthought. Those types of people it's hard to break that mentality until they reach a breaking point (which from people's comments on the Boards it's usually costs and overall experience).

I think for some people, with the addition of the new park (along with its size and scope) , it may not necessarily mean people are going to ditch Disney permanently, but for people who take 7 day vacations, it could mean that they now alternate each trip.

One trip they will do just Disney, and then next trip they will do just Universal.

Say someone does a yearly Orlando vacation. If every other year they are doing 7 days at Universal, staying on-site entirely at a Universal Resort, and spending lots of time in City walk and the shops, that's a huge amount of increased revenue for Universal.

While everyone might not sacrifice WDW out of given Orlando trip, some definitely will.
 


I think for some people, with the addition of the new park (along with its size and scope) , it may not necessarily mean people are going to ditch Disney permanently, but for people who take 7 day vacations, it could mean that they now alternate each trip.

One trip they will do just Disney, and then next trip they will do just Universal.

Say someone does a yearly Orlando vacation. If every other year they are doing 7 days at Universal, staying on-site entirely at a Universal Resort, and spending lots of time in City walk and the shops, that's a huge amount of increased revenue for Universal.

While everyone might not sacrifice WDW out of given Orlando trip, some definitely will.
Yes and I agree with you for sure though some people already alternate between the two in terms of 1 trip at 1 place and the next at another. They are still deciding to go to both. A Universal only person, which is what the PP was talking about, would be someone who stopped going entirely to Disney not that they opt to split the vacations.
 
It's not even about cutting WDW out completely. I've said before that our strategy in 2017 & 2018 was a 6 & 2 split in 2017 and a 7 & 2 split in 2018 (due to a date mix-up on our part). For our next trip we were already edging towards a 5 & 3 split before heading to the villa, and that trip will be before Epic opens.

I don't think Universal are aiming to make people's trips either/or. They just want more people to spend a day or two more of their trip in their parks than they may have done previously.
 
It's not even about cutting WDW out completely. I've said before that our strategy in 2017 & 2018 was a 6 & 2 split in 2017 and a 7 & 2 split in 2018 (due to a date mix-up on our part). For our next trip we were already edging towards a 5 & 3 split before heading to the villa, and that trip will be before Epic opens.

I don't think Universal are aiming to make people's trips either/or. They just want more people to spend a day or two more of their trip in their parks than they may have done previously.

I think it's a combination of many potential behaviour changes that Universal is hoping for with this new park that don't need to involve people not going to Disney anymore.

Outside of Universal hoping to attract new visitors to their parks who may have never been, or looking for some to stop going to Disney and going to Universal exclusively, If you look at people who do split trips now regularly over a given number of set days of their vacation, these are the potential outcomes after this new park opens (if not increasing the total number of days of their typical vacation).

1. Keep their splits roughly same as many do now - No net benefit to either Disney or Universal
2. Change their split to have more Universal and Less Disney (Universal marginal gain, Disney marginal loss)
3. Do alternating trips entirely at Universal and not at Disney (like say alternate one year fully Disney, One year fully Universal) - Significant Gains to Universal, Significant Loss to Disney because on a given Universal exclusive tip they gain extra revenue from Hotel stays and other on-property spending that they wouldn't necessarily get from people who keep doing splits.

For many that do splits like you are doing above, there will be likely be an eventual "tipping point" for many where it will indeed become an either/or because they can't split their stay like that and do everything they want at both Disney and Universal in one trip (and also won't simply make their trips longer). So you will get some people who adjust to #3 which is big net revenue gains to Universal.
 
I stopped doing splits 5 years ago. It’s too much wasted travel time.

Now, I’ll only do Universal in FL, and I’ll do Disney only in CA. I can do Universal easily in 3 days. And I can do DL/DCA easily in 3 days. I net end up spending two less days at Disney now. It’s a better use of my time to go to CA. And it’s cheaper than FL and requires less travel time.
 
I stopped doing splits 5 years ago. It’s too much wasted travel time.

Now, I’ll only do Universal in FL, and I’ll do Disney only in CA. I can do Universal easily in 3 days. And I can do DL/DCA easily in 3 days. I net end up spending two less days at Disney now. It’s a better use of my time to go to CA. And it’s cheaper than FL and requires less travel time.
And for me the only reason I even have gone to DLR back in March since I was a few years old is because my husband is on a field assignment in LA. Living in the middle of the country it's easy to get to either Orlando or LA area and having gone to DLR my husband and I agree we prefer WDW over DLR. DLR was nice but it wasn't the experience we get at WDW. Plus in all honesty I wasn't tempted to go to Universal Hollywood when I was out there and I can't seem to pass up Universal Orlando if I'm going to be in Orlando.

For us it would be far more wasted travel time trying to go to each coast and would be far more expensive for airfare and hotels trying to split the time that way.

This is why it's great that everyone has their own preferences.
 
I think for some people, with the addition of the new park (along with its size and scope) , it may not necessarily mean people are going to ditch Disney permanently, but for people who take 7 day vacations, it could mean that they now alternate each trip.

One trip they will do just Disney, and then next trip they will do just Universal.

Say someone does a yearly Orlando vacation. If every other year they are doing 7 days at Universal, staying on-site entirely at a Universal Resort, and spending lots of time in City walk and the shops, that's a huge amount of increased revenue for Universal.

While everyone might not sacrifice WDW out of given Orlando trip, some definitely will.

This is exactly what I'm leaning towards now. Was planning to try to do a big trip in '22 with my DH for our 5 year anniversary and hit both WDW and Universal. But with the new park coming now I'm thinking about just doing Disney as he has never been and all the new 50th stuff will be open. Then go back a couple years later when hopefully Epic Universe is open and do all of Universal. Should have a lot of new stuff at the other parks too plus Volcano Bay being new to us as well then.
 
Disney’s executives have become bloated with self importance and have allowed their parks specifically at WDW to become garbage, mouse infested parks with dirty restrooms.

I don’t blame the CM’s or anyone else, but the money men at the top. They have stopped listening to the people who buy the tickets and annual passes to their parks. They continue to raise prices even though their parks are dirty, the quality of food sold in their parks is awful, planning a trip there is ridiculous.

Those Disney executives believe that no matter how high they raise their prices that people who love Disney will keep coming irregardless of how poor the quality of the product. This to me is their future major downfall.

Yet, right now the crowds keep coming... Disney has been cutting cost wherever they can the last few years and raising prices, yet the parks are constantly crowded.. so much they will keep getting away with what they can.
Eventually there will be a tipping point, but until then Disney is printing money.

Think Galaxy's Edge will be a tell to Disney's near future... If it is crowded as expected, then more of the same. If it like it's been in Disneyland and low crowds, maybe sign of changes needed.

.... Also pair that with the ticket specials universal runs (Buy one get one, buy 2 get two, or even this past spring, buy two days get 3 days free). That alone will keep people out of Disney unless they have small children.

But Universals objective is to not have to offer those kind of deals, they would much rather everyone pay full price for every day they go there.... If they get crowded enough, those kind of deals will be a memory.

One of the main points everyone picks Universal for is how relaxed it is to vacation there and not have to plan everything like Disney. But Universals expansion is going to lead to them being the same as Disney eventually.
 
Actually I'm not sure the deals will go away anytime soon. Though with more parks they might change it to but 3 get the 4th and/or 5th day free. They really aren't giving away that much. At Universal the third day on is usually a very minimal addition in price around $10 or so. Disney is the same with each day after the third being a very minimal additional price. A 7 day ticket to either park isn't really much different in price from a 3 day ticket. So giving an additional day for free entices guests to stay longer, spending more money in the parks (and many people in the hotels) likely netting Universal a lot more money per day then the $10 or so they are losing on the ticket
 
I stopped doing splits 5 years ago. It’s too much wasted travel time.

Now, I’ll only do Universal in FL, and I’ll do Disney only in CA. I can do Universal easily in 3 days. And I can do DL/DCA easily in 3 days. I net end up spending two less days at Disney now. It’s a better use of my time to go to CA. And it’s cheaper than FL and requires less travel time.

And Disneyland California is way better than WDW in so many ways. So much less stress and pre-planning crap. Way more rides per park. No wasted time travelling back and forth. Several superior versions of rides.
 
I definitely prefer California's stress free lack of planning needed compared to WDW and their parks there are nice but I still love WDW for the amount of stuff it has. As mentioned in RamblingMad's post you can easily cover Disneyland Resort in 3 days whereas WDW I feel you can go to for a week and still have plenty left to do at the end.

But I agree I really hate the whole system now of WDW requiring you to pretty much have your entire vacation set up and planned out fully at least a month in advance down to what rides when and all meals. Wish they would go back to the old Fastpass system. Can still utilize the magic bands but wish Fastpasses were all jsut available day off in the parks on a first come first serve basis.
 
I just read an article of them speaking of how attendance is down supposedly 3% for Disney, due to price increases around the board in parks and hotels in preparation for GE and due to the fact they believe guests are holding out to wait for the GE additions in the future. It will be interesting to see how this how GE thing turns out.
 
I just read an article of them speaking of how attendance is down supposedly 3% for Disney, due to price increases around the board in parks and hotels in preparation for GE and due to the fact they believe guests are holding out to wait for the GE additions in the future. It will be interesting to see how this how GE thing turns out.

A 3% drop in attendance is still more of a profit than last year after the price increase. as much as $100,000 a day with a $5 increase to tickets with the average crowd last year being 56k at MK. it's a great business model; nearly 2,000 less guests keeping the wait times lower and still profiting $100K more a day.

What Disney is attempting to do is move that 3% loss to the smaller parks. i will be curious to see the attendance at DHS from 2017 to end of 2019 after the addition of Toy Story and GE.

I think that is one thing that will be accomplished with Epic Universe; accomplishing a greater rate of return with vacation packages that are hands down far better value than anything Disney would want to come close to. i think the only thing that could really make an impact is if one land was dedicated to gaming (Fortnight, Minecraft, etc...) to pull a younger demographic from Disney.
 

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!





Top