"Ladies and Gentlemen" becoming an outdated term?

[skyblue17]

Were you or anyone you know offended by the use of “ladies and gentlemen”?

I don’t know how you identify and I don’t care. You are a human being and that’s all I need to know. That is what makes you matter enough to be considered.

Just my opinion, but how about we just treat all human beings as human beings and quit worrying about who identifies as what?

I don’t care what they say on the airline. Nor do I care if anyone ever uses the term again. But this constant having to stop and think about every tiny little word tiring and most of the time the one who is supposed to be offended isn’t. It’s someone else that decides they should be.

I'm not offended. The post you quoted is about as well as I can explain why it's being done. Not necessarily because of offense, but because of consideration.

I agree all human beings should be treated as human beings, which is why I'm confused that so many people are doubling down on how this is not necessary. A lot of "who cares, but...". I'll admit that I DO care, because I think representation and inclusion is important, and a good way to show respect to others is to not argue about how that representation is nonsense or a small minority or any other term that may or may not have been used in this thread or elsewhere.

 

[disykat]

Sarcasm not really intended - more a little joke that maybe fell flat. Nor was I doubting what the pp said. My point was that it is not nearly so common a state as may be implied by anecdotes of people who personally know several non-binary individuals. They (you) are even more rare than non-binary individuals themselves, KWIM?

I'm kind of surprised there are people out there that DON'T know several non-binary individuals. I live in a relatively suburban area, and have a pretty conservative background and I know two people who identify as such. I also know someone who is transgendered. Honestly though, I'm sure there are many people in our community who have no idea the people identify as such. Unless you've conversed fairly in depth with someone, you won't necessarily know that about them. There is also a person that comes where I work that is obviously male but chooses to dress as a female and I'm not sure how she (?) identifies - I try to avoid pronouns when talking to that person.

Even if the percentage is less than 1%, don't most people know hundreds of people? Isn't it likely some of those people might fall in a category that is that much of a minority?

 

[ronandannette]

I'm kind of surprised there are people out there that DON'T know several non-binary individuals. I live in a relatively suburban area, and have a pretty conservative background and I know two people who identify as such. I also know someone who is transgendered. Honestly though, I'm sure there are many people in our community who have no idea the people identify as such. Unless you've conversed fairly in depth with someone, you won't necessarily know that about them. There is also a person that comes where I work that is obviously male but chooses to dress as a female and I'm not sure how she (?) identifies - I try to avoid pronouns when talking to that person.

Even if the percentage is less than 1%, don't most people know hundreds of people? Isn't it likely some of those people might fall in a category that is that much of a minority?

If by "knowing" you mean have come in contact with, well, sure, you're probably right. Family, friends, most coworkers - I am confident in saying I know how they identify. Anybody further out than that? I don't know, nor do I have any interest in knowing, their sexuality or gender identity, or them knowing mine, for that matter. In casual interactions I call people by their names; no need for pronouns. I've got no clue about who in the wider community might be non-binary or formally transgendered; there are a few people I've seen who clearly dress as the gender opposite of their biological sex. I've had no need to address them but if I did, I imagine I'd just go with their names.

 

[fla4fun]

I'm kind of surprised there are people out there that DON'T know several non-binary individuals.

I think it’s probably more along the lines of they don’t know how the person identifies, so they don’t realize they know more. I personally am not aware of anyone in my friends, family, and acquaintance circle who do not identify with matching gender and biological sex, but I also haven’t specifically asked them either. I have always felt that was a kind of personal question, and I would be rude for asking, although I suppose it could come up in the context of conversation sometime. I don’t have a problem with knowing, I just feel questions can sometimes be intrusive or put someone on the spot when they may not be ready to talk.

 

[L&Lfan]

I don’t know anyone transgender or gender fluid, but if I do they never mentioned it to me.

 

[Hikergirl]

I'm kind of surprised there are people out there that DON'T know several non-binary individuals. I live in a relatively suburban area, and have a pretty conservative background and I know two people who identify as such. I also know someone who is transgendered. Honestly though, I'm sure there are many people in our community who have no idea the people identify as such. Unless you've conversed fairly in depth with someone, you won't necessarily know that about them. There is also a person that comes where I work that is obviously male but chooses to dress as a female and I'm not sure how she (?) identifies - I try to avoid pronouns when talking to that person.

Even if the percentage is less than 1%, don't most people know hundreds of people? Isn't it likely some of those people might fall in a category that is that much of a minority?

I saw a stat online that 1.4 million or 0.5% - 0.6% of the US population is transgender.
The amount of people who identify as non-binary is not officially known but I read that they made up 25% of the transgender community. That is a very very small amount of people, you are talking 250,000 people out of 327 million. Even if we all know 100's of people, most people would not know several non-binary individuals.

My godson is transgender. He is the only person I personally know that is.

 

[disykat]

You discover how often we use pronouns when you are in a situation where you don't want to offend someone by using the wrong one. Or maybe other people are just smoother than I am? It's not as easy as just using their names.

I'm taken aback that some posters seem to think I must be inappropriately questioning people or butting into the business of strangers because I happen to know several people who have identified themselves to me as non-binary.

 

[ronandannette]

I saw a stat online that 1.4 million or 0.5% - 0.6% of the US population is transgender.
The amount of people who identify as non-binary is not officially known but I read that they made up 25% of the transgender community. That is a very very small amount of people, you are talking 250,000 people out of 327 million. Even if we all know 100's of people, most people would not so several non-binary individuals.

My godson is transgender. He is the only person I personally know that is.

I read the same sort of statistic, which was why I made the original comment when the poster up-thread mentioned knowing several non-binary persons.

 

[ronandannette]

You discover how often we use pronouns when you are in a situation where you don't want to offend someone by using the wrong one.

I'm taken aback that people seem to think I must be inappropriately questioning people or butting into the business of strangers because I happen to know several people who have identified themselves to me as non-binary.

OK, but can you simply accept that fact that the rest of us haven't had similar experiences?

 

[DisneyOma]

Maybe because she's the teacher? To me, "acting like ladies and gentlemen" has ZERO to do with gender OR sex. It has to do with being polite to each other, and respecting those you are with. Or should gender neutral/fluid children be allowed to act like hellions since they don't identify as Male or female?

Seriously? If a child is gender neutral, would that child be a lady or a gentleman? If the answer is neither, then there's your answer to your question right there. You are categorizing by binary gender. Not every kid fits into your antiquated perspective.

If by "knowing" you mean have come in contact with, well, sure, you're probably right. Family, friends, most coworkers - I am confident in saying I know how they identify. Anybody further out than that? I don't know, nor do I have any interest in knowing, their sexuality or gender identity, or them knowing mine, for that matter. In casual interactions I call people by their names; no need for pronouns. I've got no clue about who in the wider community might be non-binary or formally transgendered; there are a few people I've seen who clearly dress as the gender opposite of their biological sex. I've had no need to address them but if I did, I imagine I'd just go with their names.

You'd be surprised how many transgender people there are. A lot of them are not public with their identity.

I saw a stat online that 1.4 million or 0.5% - 0.6% of the US population is transgender.
The amount of people who identify as non-binary is not officially known but I read that they made up 25% of the transgender community. That is a very very small amount of people, you are talking 250,000 people out of 327 million. Even if we all know 100's of people, most people would not so several non-binary individuals.

My godson is transgender. He is the only person I personally know that is.

In my very small high school of about 500 students, we have 4 transgender students that have publicly requested a change of pronoun and also gender neutral and gender fluid students. I am not in a position to report how many - that would be a breach of their confidence. But there are many young people questioning the boundaries of the past and getting empowered to express their inner selves. I'm proud of every single one of them.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I think, just like anything, it comes down to the demographics of your area, the circles you run in, and chance. For example, I only know two Catholics but I could see how someone else might find that unfathomable depending on their life experience. I am a vegan and yet the only other vegans I know are my husband and son. But I know/have known oodles of LGBTQ+ people.

 

[Hikergirl]

In my very small high school of about 500 students, we have 4 transgender students that have publicly requested a change of pronoun and also gender neutral and gender fluid students. I am not in a position to report how many - that would be a breach of their confidence. But there are many young people questioning the boundaries of the past and getting empowered to express their inner selves. I'm proud of every single one of them.

I don't think just publicly requesting your teacher call you he or she or they makes you part of that transgender stat. Maybe it does, but I know several young adults who in HS told people they were transgender. Turns out they really weren't, or at least decided to go back to identifying as the sex they were born as by the time they graduated. Seems if it included people like that the stat would be much higher.
I don't know for sure, but I'm assuming it includes those people who have gone through the legal and or medical procedures to become the opposite sex.

 

[disykat]

Somehow "OK, but can you simply accept that fact that the rest of us haven't had similar experiences? " from Ronanddannate didn't quote so I'm putting it here.

Absolutely. I said I was "kind of surprised." I didn't say I didn't believe you. ???

I was certainly surprised that you seemed to think the possibility of anyone knowing two people who identify as nonbinary was such an extreme possibility that that person should buy lottery tickets - which is why I added my experience. I live a pretty non extreme life - most people would identify me as quite conservative - and that has been my experience. (Even without asking everyone I meet intrusive questions! )

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

You'd be surprised how many transgender people there are. A lot of them are not public with their identity.

Which is why it's not surprising that there are people who haven't encountered those who are. I'm not the least bit surprised.

At the present moment I know (and by know I mean I don't truly know a whole lot about them only met them once in person) one person who is transgender but that is through my husband. The person is an old classmate of his (where he knows him better than I do) who to the surprise of literally everyone one day announced they were going to live as a man (born a woman) and then eventually have surgery for full transition (which they have at this point). He has a child as well from when he was biologically female (actually several years prior to announcing the intent to transition).

I don't think it should be perceived as a 'thing' not to know someone who isn't. Some people are private with their lives in general, some people don't want to be seen as X but rather just an individual, some people don't even think it's relevant to how they interact with people, some people aren't comfortable at all with disclosing, and then some people are extremely open and so on and so on.

 

[LSUmiss]

I don't think just publicly requesting your teacher call you he or she or they makes you part of that transgender stat. Maybe it does, but I know several young adults who in HS told people they were transgender. Turns out they really weren't, or at least decided to go back to identifying as the sex they were born as by the time they graduated. Seems if it included people like that the stat would be much higher.
I don't know for sure, but I'm assuming it includes those people who have gone through the legal and or medical procedures to become the opposite sex.

At the risk of being flamed, I think it’s actually becomes trendy in some areas for high school kids. Obviously the ones who are serious eventually do more than just tell ppl they are.

 

[Hikergirl]

At the risk of being flamed, I think it’s actually becomes trendy in some areas for high school kids. Obviously the ones who are serious eventually do more than just tell ppl they are.

No flaming from me, I agree.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think, just like anything, it comes down to the demographics of your area, the circles you run in, and chance. For example, I only know two Catholics but I could see how someone else might find that unfathomable depending on their life experience. I am a vegan and yet the only other vegans I know are my husband and son. But I know/have known oodles of LGBTQ+ people.

I've known gay, lesbian and bi individuals but I do think that is a bit more common for people to encounter. I think that aspect might be because just how far we've come over the years (we just got same sex marriage legally not all too long ago for instance). I think it's rarer to actually know people from other parts of the Community. I suspect that over the decades to come that it will be less rare.

 

[ronandannette]

At the risk of being flamed, I think it’s actually becomes trendy in some areas for high school kids. Obviously the ones who are serious eventually do more than just tell ppl they are.

Having been through it with a grandchild, yes, I would say in our case that definitely was part of it. There were a lot of outside influences that played a role. Our feelings were always that it's such an angst-y age to begin with, especially for girls. Who among us doesn't remember not feeling comfortable in their own skin, not really knowing who they were and deeply yearning for...something unidentifiable that seemed just beyond reach? Knowing this child intimately, I wouldn't presume to speak for anybody else's situation.

 

[sam_gordon]

Seriously? If a child is gender neutral, would that child be a lady or a gentleman? If the answer is neither, then there's your answer to your question right there. You are categorizing by binary gender. Not every kid fits into your antiquated perspective.

A teacher asking kids to act like "ladies and gentlemen" has NOTHING. TO. DO. WITH. GENDER.

 

[carol48b]

Totally going off topic, but in some places it’s the norm for “ladies” in dresses to hop on a motorcycle. I travel frequently to Rwanda. Their culture values much more formal attire than in the US. (Most men wouldn’t dream of being caught in shorts or a T-shirt) But motorcycle taxis are the predominant form of transportation. So you will see countless women in business attire/skirts on the back of a motorcycle.

I do agree with you that it would be highly uncommon in the US, but I think we also tend to have different views and stereotypes about motorcycle riders that play into the idea of it being “un-ladylike”.

I never considered any overseas country, and you are right about that, I've been to Europe a couple of times and have seen that. It is definitely different in other areas.