Let's keep those family issues going - birthdays

Your responses sound like you're ready to argue and create an issue, and possibly think that his wife is to "blame."

I just don't see that as a productive attitude if you want to maintain a good relationship.

This.

If I were your SIL I'd just slowly back off. It would be my way of setting boundaries and avoiding conflict. I wouldn't say anything to you precisely because I do value the relationship. You are very critical of her. They've got to do what works for their family. And having 2 kids changes things immensely.

When you talk about your brother lying to you you sound like a parent scolding their child. Like lying is a cardinal sin - black and white - no gray area. You are in the right and he is in the wrong.
 
I understand what you're saying, but that's how our family has always operated. Birthdays are family occasions for us. I know it isn't that way for a lot of families, but it is for us. DH's family isn't that way, and that's cool. I still invite them to our kids' parties, sometimes they come sometimes they don't. Brother's wife invites her entire extended family to their son's parties (great grand parents, great aunts, uncles, cousins, etc).

It can be exhausting but it is nice to get the kids together that the cousins can play together as they're all close in age. They love it.

You can only operate your own family the way you want. You brother is just not interested in going to all of these birthday parties and it's more about you accepting and respecting his choice not to attend. You can say, if you can come, come. If not, fine. I think he's feeling pressured to lying to you. There's no way I would show up for that many kids birthday parties every year. It's not my thing either. I wouldn't lie though. I would just say no and send a gift. My sister lives close to my other sister and for years she tried pressuring my sister into attending these type of events and was always livid because in her mind "there's no excuse for her not to".
 
I know many many couples who do not make plans without consulting each other first. It's a big deal to them. My DH and I are not one of those couples but I've accepted that this is not uncommon. I respect that it's important to other couples to do things their own way - what works for them.
 
To be clear, I was not criticizing you for being here with a newborn baby. I ONLY used that as an illustration of a difference between your ability to do so and what I can guarantee would not have been possible with either of my daughters while nursing at this age -- and my reasons would have been different for each daughter. Some people knew what was going on back then when my daughters were babies and others did not because I knew many people would not understand and would only end up giving me well-intentioned but useless advice. Everything with your brother and SIL may not be as you assume you know. My MIL hasn't lived with her brother for nearly 70 years, yet she assumes she knows him and his thoughts better than his wife, so much so that she has caused a major rift in the family for no real reason except she wants things her way.

See and I reread my response and realized I was unclear in the first paragraph. My DD2 fell asleep while my newborn DS was nursing. It sounded like I was still nursing her which I am not.

And I wasn't offended. Just responding.

And, to be honest, I don't know why she stopped coming around all of a sudden. It is a huge difference in her behavior. I only guessed why he lied (as I perceive it at least) because I was asked why I thought he was lying.

I have no intention of spreading rumors among the family or starting a fight over this. This is why I'm griping about it on an anonymous message board.
 


Purely as devil's advocate I would say the following. First, my MIL is infamous on her own side of the family for laying the blame for any infraction, real or simply perceived on her part, on the spouse with no blood ties. There is currently quite the dustup she created out of whole cloth and blames on her 80-something year old SIL because MIL is positive her 90-year old brother is only agreeing with SIL on something because he has to, not because the feelings he expresses are his own.

Second, it may be that your brother no longer shares the affinity for the volume of family occasions that you, your sister and parents seem to. It sounds like he's the parent of two young children, something that is taxing even for parents who do love their children. Those circumstances also apply to his wife. Maybe in the thick of parenting two young children they're feeling overwhelmed and in need of more "me" time. (I get that you have a newborn and four other children, but I beg of you not to even allow thoughts of you having several children and still making time for extended family. Not all people find the grind of parenthood so easy to roll with. I can guarantee you that I wouldn't have time on a discussion board when either of mine were newborns. That's not trying to take a dig at you, but to point out some people have different needs or even struggles that they may not care to share.)

Third, your last sentence might merit some thought on your part. Are you being a bit irrationally angry over a minor issue? Maybe consider whether there's any room to believe your brother might think it's easier to make a white lie than have to answer a laundry list of rebuttals from you about why they really should come to the party, how much they'll be missed, how much it would mean to your daughter, how much fun the kids would have playing together, etc? Yes, I know you say hey, we can't make it is enough, but the fact you've come up with a counterpoint to so many of the points raised in this discussion make me question your sincerity. That doesn't mean you're a bad person or a selfish person either. It's totally legit that you would simply miss them being there and sincerely wish your nephew could be there to play with his cousins and be disappointed it's not happening. Of course we want to see the people we love as often as we can.

To the bolded, this has been a huge issue with my relationship with my husband's family. When we were first dating he made some choices that were out of character for how he usually interacted with his family, and his family very clearly blamed me for them, and harbored a lot of resentment towards me for many years. The truth was that he was trying to figure out how to juggle the many demands of his family, with a new relationship that he was really excited about and committed to, and he didn't make the best choices in his communication of those decisions, but his family felt that they absolutely knew him, and that I had to be the one pulling the strings, so to speak. I have a much better relationship with his family now, we even discussed a couple of the incidents over the holidays and his older sister was shocked at how different reality was than what she had assumed all those years ago, and she apologized to me for a lot of incorrect assumptions that informed her relationship with me and actions towards me. We are in a really good place now, and I am so thankful that we have softened towards one another, and have pretty good communication these days.


Sometimes reality is a far cry from what we assume it is, everyone has a different perspective and view of events, I have learned over the years to approach these types of situations with much more grace than I had before, and to give people the benefit of the doubt.
 
I've already responded to the poster you quoted and I'm not going to continue to repeat myself. I have no intention of saying anything outside of here. I have said, repeatedly, when a sibling says they can't make it, "Okay. That's fine." I don't guilt them, I don't demand reasons, I don't tell them it's not good enough.

Actually in fact, my brother used to come to the girls' dance recitals. I was going to buy tickets for everyone and asked if he was coming. He said, "No, we don't want to sit through it this year." I laughed and said, "Me either, but I don't have the choice! You should try sitting though it after sitting through black rehearsal and dress rehearsal." And that was it.

You are very critical of her.

How so? I was asked why I think he would lie. That was the only dynamic that has changed in the past year or so. They've been together for nearly 20. Never had issues with her. Still don't. If she doesn't want to come to family functions, that is her call. I don't know why she's refusing to come but I do appreciate that puts my brother in a difficult position.

My MIL is the same way with FIL's family. Refused to go to any function with them because she couldn't stand them, so he spent Christmases and Easters and others with his kids at his mom's while she was at home. Not what I would do but as long as it worked for them, whatever.

When you talk about your brother lying to you you sound like a parent scolding their child. Like lying is a cardinal sin - black and white - no gray area.

Maybe I am. I can't turn off being a parent. And I expect those in my life to have respect me enough to not lie to me.

You can say, if you can come, come. If not, fine. I think he's feeling pressured to lying to you.

If he is feeling pressured, it is not by me. I have never asked why they can't come to something when they can't.

I am responding on here because, as I've said in another response, I don't feel I am being clear. I almost feel like I'm not even forming complete thoughts (newborn parent exhaustion, I suppose, coupled with those pesky pregnancy hormones).
 
I know many many couples who do not make plans without consulting each other first. It's a big deal to them. My DH and I are not one of those couples but I've accepted that this is not uncommon. I respect that it's important to other couples to do things their own way - what works for them.
Ours became an issue when my husband (long before he was my husband and we were dating or engaged) would all the time be like "so we've got this X on date Y" and that date Y would usually be with little notice. Usually he would be like "oh didn't I tell you my dad wants to have dinner with us tomorrow night?" or "so and so would like us to come over tonight"; nope you sure didn't. It created problems when things would overlap because he would forget to tell me he already said yes for something or it would be an issue if he forgot I or we had already mentioned or discussed I'd or we'd like to do something on that day, etc.

As I mentioned there are some activities that don't require talking it over. For example if he's got a work thing he's not going to 'ask' me if he can go I just know it's important usually for him to for networking purposes he still tells me he's got something going on because it will end or start after working hours but he's not asking me in that instance. But when it comes to happy hour that is not work required he will ask me because he knows he won't be home til 6:30-7:00.

If his dad wants him to go to our alma mater basketball game (for which his dad has season tickets) he'll ask for the purpose of finding out if we have something else going on but the only reason I would say no is if we had a conflicting thing to do and even then it depended on if the thing was something that could easily be done another time. On that note if he's already busy with a basketball game for instance I'm not going to discuss with him about having dinner with my mom or my friend, etc.

But for a variety of reasons we discuss majority of things that occur after working hours and on weekends with each other.

You are toally correct it's whatever works in each relationship.
 


OP, I can tell this perceived family dynamic is upsetting to you. I think you need to really face the fact that your brother is now focused on his wife and his children first. It does not make him bad. It does not make him love you any less. It means he is choosing to prioritize his time.

You say all he would need to do is tell you he cannot attend and you would be fine. Obviously that is not the case. You are convinced he is lying and his wife is the root of the issue. You are worried that your daughter is going to notice that her uncle is not at her party and this is going to in some way "scar" her. I am going to be direct, I would find this to be annoying and controlling behavior.

We do not have children and sometimes extended family assumes that means we can come to anything and everything even though we have almost no family within 500 miles of our home. Guess what? We do not go to everything. we are very selective about what we attend. We decide how we want to spend our holidays and sometimes we stay at home and they can come to us or, like this past Christmas, no one comes. No hard feelings. You cannot please everyone all of the time.

I think you need to face the fact that at this point, keeping his wife and family happy may take priority over having to explain to his sister why he is not attending a party.

ETA: You need to get over this "lying" issue. You are very black and white about lying. I am an honest person and generally try not to lie myself. However, trying to come up with an excuse that he knows you are not going to find good enough about why he cannot attend the party I do not think is a lie in the traditional sense.
 
You're right. But there's no reason to lie. I didn't ask for an excuse. I didn't angrily demand "Why? What is so important you can't come to my precious angel's party? You're a terrible brother and I put a curse on your house forever." He chose to tell me, what I am convinced is a lie (for several reasons, mostly already mentioned). And it isn't the first time. And I hate being lied to.



Oh, I agree. Sometimes when my DH has worked a ton of OT and we are supposed to go somewhere, it is so hard to drag ourselves out to the car when all we want to do is spend time as a family. We still go though, but I wouldn't fault anyone for not going. Another brother isn't coming and that's fine. But I'm pretty sure this one is lying to me.

Honestly it seems like you are putting on way too much pressure and are making this too big.

Your responses are starting to make me think that you might be the friend or family member that I might feel like I needed a "good enough" excuse to decline. You know, "Belle's going to be so annoyed if we don't go. What excuse can we give her?" You may be pushing him toward the lie if it is one.

If you graciously accepted a declined invite, there would be no reason to lie. You don't seem to be doing that though and have discussed this with your sister, right? Creating even more family drama.
 
Honestly it seems like you are putting on way too much pressure and are making this too big.

Your responses are starting to make me think that you might be the friend or family member that I might feel like I needed a "good enough" excuse to decline. You know, "Belle's going to be so annoyed if we don't go. What excuse can we give her?" You may be pushing him toward the lie if it is one.

If you graciously accepted a declined invite, there would be no reason to lie. You don't seem to be doing that though and have discussed this with your sister, right? Creating even more family drama.


You know what. Maybe I am a demanding PITA. here's an example of how I handle it when someone can't come to a kid's party.

Screenshot_20180111-163046.png

I'm a monster everyone has to lie to.

I asked my MIL (the Mom I'm referencing here, what Batman's work schedule was so I could try to plan for a time he could come) He couldn't make it and I just plain flew off the handle.
 
I know many many couples who do not make plans without consulting each other first. It's a big deal to them. My DH and I are not one of those couples but I've accepted that this is not uncommon. I respect that it's important to other couples to do things their own way - what works for them.

It's not so much that it's a big deal to us, it's honestly more about my husband being lousy about keeping track of what's going on and communicating information to me so that I'm up to date. It's caused some issues in the past and now if he is approached about something he will defer until he's talked to me to avoid problems. He's a great guy, a thoughtful guy, a really smart guy -- I cannot in good conscience recommend him as a qualified candidate for a social secretary position.

To the bolded, this has been a huge issue with my relationship with my husband's family. When we were first dating he made some choices that were out of character for how he usually interacted with his family, and his family very clearly blamed me for them, and harbored a lot of resentment towards me for many years. The truth was that he was trying to figure out how to juggle the many demands of his family, with a new relationship that he was really excited about and committed to, and he didn't make the best choices in his communication of those decisions, but his family felt that they absolutely knew him, and that I had to be the one pulling the strings, so to speak. I have a much better relationship with his family now, we even discussed a couple of the incidents over the holidays and his older sister was shocked at how different reality was than what she had assumed all those years ago, and she apologized to me for a lot of incorrect assumptions that informed her relationship with me and actions towards me. We are in a really good place now, and I am so thankful that we have softened towards one another, and have pretty good communication these days.


Sometimes reality is a far cry from what we assume it is, everyone has a different perspective and view of events, I have learned over the years to approach these types of situations with much more grace than I had before, and to give people the benefit of the doubt.

I'm well practiced at being the object of my MIL's disgruntled attitude when things don't go her way. If I stood on my head and sang the Star Spangled Banner at her command I would still be in the wrong, so I gave up on trying to go the extra mile for her many moons ago. I do try to be considerate in regards to her and I have to satisfy myself with the knowledge I gave it my best and that's all I can do. My husband realizes she cannot and will not be pleased with anything I do. I have even been approached by members of her side of the family who have let me know that it is well known I get what is called her "Outlaw Treatment" times ten because I'm not only an outlaw, my sins are larger because I'm married to her son.
 
And here I am trying to make plans with the person I've been best friends with since I was 8.

Screenshot_20180111-163734.png

I don't have any more examples of people not coming to the kids' parties because I got this phone in August, and I've only had one have a birthday since then.
 
You know what. Maybe I am a demanding PITA. here's an example of how I handle it when someone can't come to a kid's party.

View attachment 293810

I'm a monster everyone has to lie to.

I asked my MIL (the Mom I'm referencing here, what Batman's work schedule was so I could try to plan for a time he could come) He couldn't make it and I just plain flew off the handle.

I've given differing perspectives throughout the thread to give you food for thought and played devil's advocate. I suggested your brother may find it easier to make a white lie than tell the truth. That may very well be the case. That may also be an area where he struggles, not simply limited to you. A lot of people struggle with no or what they perceive as "conflict". I even said the fact you really would like them to be there does not make you a bad person or a selfish person.

When you play this martyr card it pushes my buttons because I recognize that M.O. well. No thank you.
 
You know what. Maybe I am a demanding PITA. here's an example of how I handle it when someone can't come to a kid's party.

View attachment 293810

I'm a monster everyone has to lie to.

I asked my MIL (the Mom I'm referencing here, what Batman's work schedule was so I could try to plan for a time he could come) He couldn't make it and I just plain flew off the handle.

Ok so you were told he probably couldn't make it. He texts you say happy birthday to Katie from us (clearly shows he had no intention of coming), you ask him again if there is a better time that works for him, now he feels like he needs come up with an excuse of why he didn't show up.
 
It's not so much that it's a big deal to us, it's honestly more about my husband being lousy about keeping track of what's going on and communicating information to me so that I'm up to date. It's caused some issues in the past and now if he is approached about something he will defer until he's talked to me to avoid problems. He's a great guy, a thoughtful guy, a really smart guy -- I cannot in good conscience recommend him as a qualified candidate for a social secretary position.
::yes:: especially to the bolded for me
 
I understand what you're saying, but that's how our family has always operated. Birthdays are family occasions for us. I know it isn't that way for a lot of families, but it is for us. DH's family isn't that way, and that's cool. I still invite them to our kids' parties, sometimes they come sometimes they don't. Brother's wife invites her entire extended family to their son's parties (great grand parents, great aunts, uncles, cousins, etc).

It can be exhausting but it is nice to get the kids together that the cousins can play together as they're all close in age. They love it.

I think it would be more accurate to say that this is how your family used to operate. It seems the old way isn't working for some. You are very lucky if your family dynamics have been stable up until now. Most families see fluctuations as new people are added or removed.

We had our smallest holiday season ever this year. My 4 siblings and their families used to always come "home" for one of the holidays every season. Now though, my nieces and nephews are grown- some married, some in college, some working their first real career jobs. Due to all that two of my siblings didn't come this year because they understandably (to me) wanted to spend it with their own now adult children who couldn't travel for various reasons. We loved our big crazy holidays but I bet they are in the past. No one is mad about this.

I did say that to him. I've said it before to other siblings and to him. And I usually say DD's party is this time, let me know if you can make it." And that's it. It is the lie that is making me crazy.

If you want me to be honest with you on why I think he's lying, I think it is his wife. She has started to refuse to come to family functions for about a year now. I think she was there last Christmas? I think he's tired of making excuses for her, or of people asking where she is. He usually brings his son. This past Christmas, Nephew was upset because Mommy wasn't there, so brother said that the real reason Nephew was upset was because my newborn baby (born 12/13) tried to kiss him. I didn't even respond because it made absolutely no sense. After he left he called my mom and said he spoke to Nephew and Nephew was upset because Mom didn't come too.

So I think my brother is being pitted between spending time with his family, or upsetting his son because his wife won't come around anymore. If I was him, I'd pick what didn't upset my child 9/10, so I don't blame him. He's in a rough spot. And, as I've said, it makes me sad. But he doesn't have to lie to me. Just a simple, hey we can't make it. I like to think I'm an understanding person, but I cannot tolerate being lied to. It makes me irrationally angry.

You know, maybe it isn't cool. I'm not just guessing he lied to me. I am fairly certain. He was free on Saturday until the middle of this week then he had a prior commitment. And he always asks his wife before he makes plans. If they aren't together he will either hang up and call her or wait until they are together to make plans. Every time. So if there was this party on Saturday, he would have said, "Soandsos party is on Saturday. Can your DH come and weld that thing for me on Sunday?" I know this because I know my brother.

And I was asked why I think he's lying. The behavior of his wife (which they've been married for nearly 11 years and together for probably close to 20) this past year is the only difference in our family dynamic I can see. I don't know why she has withdrawn from our family. We used to be super close. I threw them their baby shower when they were expecting their son. We (that brother and his wife) and me and DH used to go camping together when we were all dating. Obviously that was years ago. When their son was first born, I stayed home, so I watched him for a couple months until they determined my mom's was more convenient. But I do admit I am speculating on the reason of why he lied.

Honestly, if your sil has been in the family for that long and just now started to refuse to attend, you might do better if you questioned why that is. And not in a "what is wrong with her?" way but maybe really reflect on whether your family is applying too much pressure and is just all around too much. She, like a lot of us, may just now be mature enough to decline things that she doesn't want to do.

It's, also, not fair to blame her. Your brother is an adult making his own decisions. But really- why is anyone getting blamed? It was a low key kid's birthday party and they simply declined.
 
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Ok so you were told he probably couldn't make it. He texts you say happy birthday to Katie from us (clearly shows he had no intention of coming), you ask him again if there is a better time that works for him, now he feels like he needs come up with an excuse of why he didn't show up.

Different child. Different relative.

Her birthday was about a week before the party. He texted me on her birthday to say happy birthday then I asked if there was a time that worked for him.
 
Different child. Different relative.

Her birthday was about a week before the party. He texted me on her birthday to say happy birthday then I asked if there was a time that worked for him.

Ok but same situation where someone has told you they probably won't make it and you don't give up trying to make it work for them. When someone tells me they probably can't make it I immediate assume they probably don't want to and don't push it. This is why you are getting excuses or what you call lies. I don't think you are a monster but you need to accept that your child's birthday party is not a priority for many people. It's really hard to say "no, I don't want to go to your kid's party and I don't have a good reason". Therefore is better to accept graciously when someone declines an invite.
 
Has your brother always had a job where he may need to work weekends, or is that a more recent development? Either way, working weekends & having a good amount of them filled with family events seems like it leaves little to no time for getting household projects done, doing anything fun with the wife and kids or just some down time for a change. Working 16 hours and then going back in the next day seems like a lot on anyone's plate. When that plate belongs to someone who is also a parent of two young children it's overflowing.
 

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